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  1. I'd like a comparison of these two prosumer S-VHS VCR lines. Which do you prefer? Or do you have an even better recommendation as far as playback VCRs are concerned?

    I've heard good and bad things about both lines, so it's difficult for me to decide on which to get. I've heard that the anamorphic heads on the Panasonics are more durable than the micron heads on the JVC, but that the JVC provides a better picture. Any thoughts?

  2. The JVC units with the built-in TBC/DNR easily have a better playback picture than the Panasonic machines. I've owned several different JVC 9000 series consumer units and a few Panasonic AG-1970's. The AG-1970 is truly a prosumer product that has more advanced editing capabilities than the JVC's and can be connected to a second 1970 with an AG-96 editing controller. That stuff is nice if you plan on doing S-VHS A/B roll editing... but for playback of tapes for digital conversion, the JVC is a better choice.

  3. Preservationist davideck's Avatar
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    Personally, I find the JVC DNR artifacts too distracting to use all the time.
    The TBC sure is nice; I wish I could select them separately.
    I only use DNR if the tape is already in pretty bad shape.
    Unfortunatley, the JVC 9000 series playback quality without TBC/DNR is pretty marginal.
    Good tapes capture better for me with my JVC 6800, an older machine without TBC but with exceptional playback quality.

    I had always assumed that the Panasonic prosumer line was comparable to the older JVCs.
    Not so, gshelley61?

  4. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    For like the zillionth time, your JVC must be broken.

    JVC DNR is easily turned off. Put it in EDIT mode. There. Off. "Picture Modes". But that destroys the use of having this unit, may as well buy the $30 Walmart special if you want unfiltered picture.

    The TBC is built around DNR, there is no other use for the TBC. That's why it's a single unit.

    Even then, all this "artifact" stuff you refer too I've not seen in the near-decade I've been using S-VHS equipment. I think it's your imagination.
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  5. My next question: I've seen some professional S-VHS VCRs for sale on eBay and was wondering if they would provide even better playback quality than the JVC HR-S9000 series.

    How about these:

    Panasonic AG-DS840 Hi-Fi w/Digital Slow and TBC

    JVC BR-S822U Professional S-VHS Editor VTR w/TBC

    In some cases, it would appear that these units will sell for even less than the JVC HR-S9000 models, even though these are professional, broadcast quality units.

    Does anyone own a higher quality playback unit than the JVC HR-S9000 series, and can they elaborate on the PQ?

  6. Preservationist davideck's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    For like the zillionth time, your JVC must be broken.

    JVC DNR is easily turned off. Put it in EDIT mode. There. Off. "Picture Modes". But that destroys the use of having this unit, may as well buy the $30 Walmart special if you want unfiltered picture.

    The TBC is built around DNR, there is no other use for the TBC. That's why it's a single unit.

    Even then, all this "artifact" stuff you refer too I've not seen in the near-decade I've been using S-VHS equipment. I think it's your imagination.
    Are you kidding me?
    The JVC TBC does a great job of line-by-line correction.
    Even excellent quality VHS / SVHS recordings can benefit from that.
    Removing chroma phase noise and luminance jitter without introducing
    a frame based DNR filter is very desireable.

    I have both a 9600 and a 7600; they look the same.
    My equipment is fine.

    The JVC DNR functions as well as one would expect for a consumer VCR.
    But it does generate artifacts.
    We've argued this issue before. You just can't see them; consider yourself lucky.

  7. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Line TBCs don't really do a whole lot. The reason it's in the unit is to stabilize the signal enough so that the DNR is effective and not harmful.

    You complain about pretty much everything on these forums, never once seen you praise a product. I'm convinced that you see flaws where none exist. I would hate for people to be turned off by well-known good products because of these rants about flaws that nobody else notices. Again, we'll have to agree to disagree, but I think you do a great disservice on an advice forum by poo-pooing everything all the time.

    The JVC S-VHS units are remarkable machines, and you're the ONLY unhappy user I've come into contact with since the mid 1990s.
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  8. Preservationist davideck's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    Line TBCs don't really do a whole lot. The reason it's in the unit is to stabilize the signal enough so that the DNR is effective and not harmful.
    I don't think you understand what a TBC does.
    Line-By-Line correction is where the actual "timebase correction" is performed.



    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    You complain about pretty much everything on these forums, never once seen you praise a product. I'm convinced that you see flaws where none exist. I would hate for people to be turned off by well-known good products because of these rants about flaws that nobody else notices. Again, we'll have to agree to disagree, but I think you do a great disservice on an advice forum by poo-pooing everything all the time.

    The JVC S-VHS units are remarkable machines, and you're the ONLY unhappy user I've come into contact with since the mid 1990s.
    I think JVC VCRs are great! I have said so on this forum. I have lots of them.
    But none is perfect, and some work better for certain tapes than others.

    Just because you can't see something doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
    Perhaps others on this forum are more observant...

  9. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    I'm very critical of video. If a flaw is there, I almost always see it. I'm not one of these flakes that thinks 8-hour DVDs are "great".

    I know what a TBC does. And again, DNR is why the TBC is present. If you want a full TBC, by one. Those are not meant to "clean" a picture. An all-alone TBC just cleans the signal, not the image quality. The JVC units are here to clean the image.
    There is a difference in their application.
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  10. Preservationist davideck's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    I'm very critical of video. If a flaw is there, I almost always see it. I'm not one of these flakes that thinks 8-hour DVDs are "great".
    Are you claiming that I'm too critical?

    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    I know what a TBC does. And again, DNR is why the TBC is present. If you want a full TBC, by one. Those are not meant to "clean" a picture. An all-alone TBC just cleans the signal, not the image quality. The JVC units are here to clean the image.
    There is a difference in their application.
    That's not correct.
    A good timebase corrector (stand alone or otherwise) will attempt to remove the "timebase" instability of a video signal in addition to reinserting a clean synthesized sync/burst signal. This improves the luminance timing and chroma purity on anything attempting to display or capture the signal, making the image look better. Removing timebase instability is complicated and some TBCs are better at it than others.

    The JVC TBCs "clean the image" because they are good line-by-line correctors and
    greatly improve the timebase stability of the video output.

    Perhaps you're confused about the difference between a TBC and a Frame Synchronizer.

  11. Can someone PLEASE answer my question above regarding broadcast-quality/pro-editing S-VHS players?

    I'm simply looking for the best playback unit there is, for a price. I don't care about recording/editing functions.

    I get the gist that the 9000 series is adored here; I was just wondering if there's any pro equipment that I can buy that would be just as good or better (as in the units I mentioned above) for PQ.

  12. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Read what gshelley wrote here:
    https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1367646#1367646

    "best playback unit there is" is going to be the JVC high-end S-VHS line of machines.

    The line just below the 9000 series is the 7000/SR series. A brand new JVC SR-V101US is $270 at B&H (bhphotovideo.com). Excellent toy.
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  13. The JVC, Sony, and Panasonic professional broadcast S-VHS machines (the very large 50 pound rack mount units) do perform very well and generally have a very nice picture. They are built like battleships with super heavy duty cast aluminum tape mechanisms with direct drive motors for durability and long service life. However, they are not very user friendly when it comes to home use. First of all, they don't always have the TBC and DNR circuit boards in them (they are options). They have pro audio XLR type audio inputs and outputs, which require a mixing board or adapters to work with consumer gear. The JVC units use a 7-pin professional "dub" connector for their s-video inputs and outputs (again, adapter cables are required to interface with consumer 4-pin s-video connections). On the used market, most of these units have many hundreds (even thousands) of hours on them, which may be fine if they were maintained well (regular servicing, heads replaced, etc.) They can't be serviced by your typical VCR repair guy, either. You have to find a shop that specializes in professional broadcast video gear. Plus, the shear size and weight of these machines make them impractical for all but the most serious home video hobbyists. You're better off with a high end consumer machine. The image quality is just as good (if not better) than the pro gear.

  14. Thanks for answering my question, gshelley61.

  15. Preservationist davideck's Avatar
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    The older JVC machines are also worth considering. They have superior transports and excellent picture quality. In particular, I can recommend the 6800/5800, the 5400, and the 6900/4900. I have them all and they are great capture machines. As an added bonus, when they show up on EBay, they typically go pretty cheap.

    The SR-V101US looks to be built on the same chassis/transport as the 2900/3900/5900 series. Based on reviews that I have read and my own experience with a 2900 unit, I'm not too sure about the durability/longevity of these units.

    What is your intended application? Are you capturing, displaying to a big screen, etc? Are your tapes mainly EP, LP or SP? Are they camcorder recordings, off-air, prerecorded?

  16. The SR-V101US (and the SR-V10) are the "pro line" versions of the HR-S7900U.

  17. Preservationist davideck's Avatar
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    Well, the SR-V10 looks like the 7900, but the SR-V101US looks like a 5911 with additional features.

    Are these "pro line" versions any different inside?

  18. The SR-V10 (and the SR-V101) has the 2MB TBC/DNR. They are dark gray in color. The 7900 is black and has the fake wood side panels, otherwise is identical to the SR-V10. All three units are not "full size" chassis machines like the 9911, 9900, 9800, etc. They are somewhat smaller and lighter.

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    Which is better for video restoration: SR-V101 or 9911? Does anyone own both to compare?

  20. Preservationist davideck's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gshelley61
    The SR-V10 (and the SR-V101) has the 2MB TBC/DNR. They are dark gray in color. The 7900 is black and has the fake wood side panels, otherwise is identical to the SR-V10. All three units are not "full size" chassis machines like the 9911, 9900, 9800, etc. They are somewhat smaller and lighter.
    I was referring more to the chassis/transport types.
    The SR-V10 (7900) is a better chassis/transport than the SR-V101 (5911).

    Originally Posted by drstew
    Which is better for video restoration: SR-V101 or 9911? Does anyone own both to compare?
    I don't own either, but I have used machines based on the same chassis/transports. Of the two you mention, the 9911 has the better transport and a more robust chassis. If there is a noticeable difference in the electronics, the 9911 is likely to be the winner there as well. From that standpoint, it is probably the better choice overall.

  21. Preservationist davideck's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by drstew
    Which is better for video restoration: SR-V101 or 9911? Does anyone own both to compare?
    How about this for a second opinion;

    https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=278766

  22. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    I own both an SR-V10U and a HR-S9800U (as well as a couple others from lower lines, and a PAL 7965).

    The 9800 unit is a bit better than the SR-V10U, but not by much. The 2MB more RAM (4MB total) on the 9000 series is evident on really harsh tapes, as the 2MB buffer on the lower line can sometime be overwhelmed by a lot of noise/flaws. This is not common, however, and only happens on the most severe problem tapes.
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    I have an SR-V101US, which is an updated SR-V10U. The picture quality on this machine is excellent, IMO. Search around for some comparison threads in the forums and formulate your own opinion...there are several with screen cap comparisons. I think, though, you'd be pleased with any of the high-end JVCs.

  24. Preservationist davideck's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    The 2MB more RAM (4MB total) on the 9000 series is evident on really harsh tapes, as the 2MB buffer on the lower line can sometime be overwhelmed by a lot of noise/flaws. This is not common, however, and only happens on the most severe problem tapes.
    Do you think those might be DNR "artifacts" that you claim to be seeing?

    Actually, I think you're just making this up.
    You're the one seeing flaws that do not exist.
    I have not noticed a difference between my JVC 7600 (2MB) and my 9600 (4MB). I'll be happy to perform any test you can recommend to verify your claim.

  25. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    If the video tape contains too much chroma noise, the TBC/DNR component can get overwhelmed. The same goes for correction of other motion errors. This is something I've known for years now, from the 7800/9800 days. Not hard to see, assuming you have tapes that are "properly" crapped up.

    The 2MB one will essentially choke and "reset". So for a split second you see the error in all it's full glory before it disappears again. On the 4MB units, this doesn't happen.

    I've only experienced this a couple times, it's not common.
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  26. Preservationist davideck's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    If the video tape contains too much chroma noise, the TBC/DNR component can get overwhelmed. The same goes for correction of other motion errors. This is something I've known for years now, from the 7800/9800 days. Not hard to see, assuming you have tapes that are "properly" crapped up.

    The 2MB one will essentially choke and "reset". So for a split second you see the error in all it's full glory before it disappears again. On the 4MB units, this doesn't happen.

    I've only experienced this a couple times, it's not common.
    overwhelmed?? What do you mean? What does that look like?

    motion errors?? What are you defining as a motion error?

    choke and "reset"? We're talking about a temporal filter. Are you suggesting that it is adaptive?

    What do you mean by a split second? 1 Frame? 10 Frames?

    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    Even then, all this "artifact" stuff you refer too I've not seen in the near-decade I've been using S-VHS equipment. I think it's your imagination.
    You're obviously identifying DNR artifacts that you earlier claimed did not exist!

  27. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    I'm obviously talking to a brick wall...

    Overwhelmed: See the dictionary.

    Motion errors: Errors on the tape. Movement of the picture, or within the picture. Not temporal noise. Not even remotely similar.

    Chokes and resets: Just what I said. Stops, resets itself, starts again.

    Split second: Not quite a full second.

    The TBC/DNR unit prevents most image motion and chroma flaws, but if the source has too much, the system can let some of the visual flaws leak through here and there.

    Seriously, 2MB vs 4MB. It's almost common sense.
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  28. Preservationist davideck's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    I'm obviously talking to a brick wall...
    You are talking to someone who is trying to understand what you are saying. It's hardly worth my time, but it is entertaining.
    As usual, you have failed to clarify what you think you are saying.

    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    Overwhelmed: See the dictionary.
    Forgive me, but I do not know what it means for a temporal filter to be "overwhelmed". If you were more familiar with the technical vocabulary that those skilled in the art use, it would be much easier to communicate with you.

    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    Motion errors: Errors on the tape. Movement of the picture, or within the picture. Not temporal noise. Not even remotely similar.
    So whenever something moves within the picture, you think it constitutes an error?

    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    Chokes and resets: Just what I said. Stops, resets itself, starts again.
    That's not what is happening.

    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    Split second: Not quite a full second.
    When talking about video, time is often specified in terms of Frames.
    I was wondering how many Frames you thought were affected.
    Do you know what a Frame is?

    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    The TBC/DNR unit prevents most image motion and chroma flaws, but if the source has too much, the system can let some of the visual flaws leak through here and there.
    That sure sounds like the DNR artifacts that I mentioned that you said didn't exist...

    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    Seriously, 2MB vs 4MB. It's almost common sense.
    You sound easily persuaded by marketing jargon.

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    Shheesh. I believe the original question is pretty much answered. *wishes for temporary mod powers to lock thread*

    cowboypsychic, get a JVC and enjoy.

  30. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    @ davideck, I doubt you'll understand. You're so busy trying to convince me (and yourself) of something else (some imaginary DNR errors), that you're completely overlooking the error I'm explaining. I guess you'd just have to see it to understand. You'd slap yourself in the forehead and go "oh, THAT!". ............ You also need to quit being a smart ass. If this is "entertaining" to you, then you have no business on this site. We're trying to help people, not play games by trying to twist people's words around and ask silly questions. Take your "entertainment" elsewhere ............ FYI, there is not any technical term for "overwhelmed". Maybe "buffer overflow" would suit you better. Not enough RAM. Insufficient resources. Thing stops working, needs more juice.

    This is getting off topic anyway....

    Suffice it to say, there are differences in the 2MB and 4MB versions. It exists, but it's not something you'd see very often, and only on tapes that are severely screwed up. Any JVC from the more modern 7000, 9000 or SR series would be a great machine.

    The JVC is a great machine, and it tends to outperform even some of the more "pro" machines that exist because of the TBC/DNR system it has.

    This thread is over with.
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