Direct Cable Or Digital Converter Box, quality question

...right now i have my cable line screwed in directly to my card but i'm not exactly getting the quality i want so my question is.. will using a digital converter box supplied by my cable company improve the quality or is this dependent on the card itself.? i'm using virtualdub to capture the quality isn't really that bad but it's just not clear.. there are lines throughout the video capturing from tv tuner card.

the way i'm set up atm is analog Ch 02-99 (this is basic cable without the box) althought channel support for my card is 02-125 but with the digital converter box i get 02-600 or higher can't remember atm

thanks for the advice edDV.

Originally Posted by allthumbs

there are lines throughout the video capturing from tv tuner card.

If your lines look something like this:

They will not be fixed by using a cable box or anything external tuner. Standard definition analog broadcast (and cable) is allways interlaced. You are seeing interlace comb artifacts. If you are going to make a DVD just ignore the combing. The DVD player and/or TV will take care of it. If you are making web videos, Divx files, or similar, you will want to inverse telecine or deinterlace to get rid of the comb artifacts.

jagabo, yes but not quite as bad.. so i will try as you say. Thank you.

Some info on interlacing: http://www.100fps.com/ Don't take everything there as gospel but it will give you some idea what's going on.

this was my first atempt..

before


after


Thanks a Lot, both you guy's, for the help and advice.

There is something more than just interlacing wrong with the first attempt. The artifacts are gone in the second image but it's not as sharp. What did you do?

Gosh golly gee, could you perhaps inform us as to exactly what type of card you are capturing with?

Maybe even describe the capture settings you are using?

Are you aware that the second image is dramatically WORSE than the first?

That the aspect ratio appears to have changed?

That the original problem is something OTHER THAN interlacing?

You can do A LOT better than that second image. You will have to provide some more information if you want help to get there.

ok.. first off i need to say.. i'm in no way a pro i've only just started doing this and i'm aware that it's quite a task for knowlagable people to have to deal with less than knowlagable people and any help and advice is very appreacated so having said that..
..my card is a Lumanate Angel II Dual TV Tuner and it came pre installed on a dell xps i bought and it is very limited as for the software it will let you use but one app i recently found that works the best so far is called SnappySoft it allows capturing video in MPEG

SnappySoft is robust yet simple capture utility. Works with all Emuzed MPEG compression devices ever shipped by Emuzed OEM customers. Also works with any MCE compatible TV Tuner.

Allows capturing video in MPEG format to the PC. Files are preformatted for further VCD/SVCD/DVD authoring with 3rd party authoring tools. User can also fine tune capture and compression settings and play back captured files all in one screen.

then i use virtualdub to tweak the video and as for filters i used, after i read the artical jagabo linked me to, it was late and i recoreded a 15 second clip just to get a feel and i don't even remember the filters i used it's still a work in progress at this point. SnappySoft is a very small app and i hate MCE a Lot so any suggestions as for software and methods in tweaking the video would be appreciated.

OK, I'll just have to take wild guesses.

Never heard of the card, most likely a simple tuner card with no onboard encoding, types of connections available, compatible software etc most likely listed in the manual or disk files that came with it.

First pic was full-resolution, uncompressed or lightly compressed AVI. There was either some kind of interference, bad signal, or some sort of unGodly de-interlace screw-up.

Second pic apparently on-the-fly MPG, probably VCD-type resolution. Somewhere in here the Aspect ratio underwent a change, or possibly the connection type changed.

Test the different connection types, S-Video is usually best. Straight AVI (Huffy) capture with later re-encoding will also probably be best. Investigate the A/R issues and where the letterboxing is induces. As you get into setting your resolution manually, you may want to consider eventual playback goals and appropriate standards for the chosen device.

The card appears to have a hardware MPEG encoder.

In the first sample image there is something wrong with the way the video was encoded or the way it's being decoded. It might be best if you capture a few seconds of video like the first sample image and uploaded the MPG file. Capture with the software that came with the card.

From my first observation:

demo'ed pics

1. The capture (sample pic) shows what appears to be analog cable interference. This is sometimes referenced as some form of "Herringbone" interference: they can vary in degree or complexity. By the looks of it, it is prob due to using some cheap Amplifier of some sort--I have a GE 4-way distribution amp that does very similar.

2. Take note that based on what I observed, your pic shows a scene from the tv series "comedy central" and this show is all interlaced. That means, (after looking at your 2nd pic below it) your softare capture included a setting for deinterlace, and the is showing it by evidence of the blury/softer look in that pic, followed by some "temporal" noise reduction (NR) feature. The reason I choose "temporal" is because of the way it *removed* the Herringbone noise seen in your 1st pic. Even though we can only see the resolve based on one pic, I would gamble that your (mpeg) capture software blend-deinterlaced on-the-fly that problem content.

Herringbone wows

* I suggest having a look at this article on your video noise related problem, at least to get an idea of what you might have in your setup:
--> http://ezinearticles.com/?How-to-Troubleshoot-Video-Problems&id=19444

The first thing I would do is find out what is causing that (Herringbone) interference. It prob can be resolved. Then, you would not have to use NR in your real-time (mpeg) capturing.

AVI vs. MPEG vs. H264 vs. other codec format

Then, the next thing I would do is decide on the type of finished capture product you want to work with. For really good quality end-result, you want to capture raw or next-to-raw .avi container video. The latter being either Huffy codec or Lagarith codec. In fact, I would even suggestion the cedocida codec *if* your source is "digital" cable because digital is very clean w/ the exception of mpeg errors and what-not, and you get nearly superior capture results in DV format via codec.

You could use MPEG-2 or H264 as your videos final presentation. But h264 (or, AVC) is not for the faint at heart. It does require a learn curve, including time to master, but will provide the best results: something to consider later on down the road as you get more acustom to your endeavors in this area.

my suggestions

It looks like you have some taste for "comedy" shows. These like many others in its class are "interlace" video. They are worse to deal with in terms of converting to a cleaner video, (de-interlacing) unlike content originating from Flim: where you can ivtc the telecined 30i back to 24p, giving you that extra clean I just mentioned.

If you want improved result of a finished capture-end-product, provide the same (or similar) capture and upload it somewhere. But try and stay close to 20mb or less in size. Also, some motion (people walking, etc) would also be an added bonus. Static and Motion scenes are both good examples to include in a demo upload, this way we have a better opportunity to work out solutions for both cases, each (possibily) requing unique filter strategies that *can* be split up into sections for optimum results.

-vhelp 5091

Originally Posted by vhelp

1. The capture (sample pic) shows what appears to be analog cable interference.

It is much too regular to be analog noise (8x nearest neighbor enlargement around the guys nose):

It is some kind of encoding or decoding error. Or way, way, way overcompressed MPEG.

then i use virtualdub to tweak the video and as for filters i used, after i read the artical jagabo linked me to, it was late and i recoreded a 15 second clip just to get a feel and i don't even remember the filters i used it's still a work in progress at this point.

There it is.. he used "filters" in his capturing or post. Either way, these patterns (as jagabo demonstrated) seem to point to the noise

A closer look did reveal a (noise-induced) pattern. The pattern then reminded me of what I *used* to do in some of my xvid (experimental) encodes to give it that extra sharpness, etc. I knew something was odd about that noise pattern

Removing the *filter* step may help clear up the video and mystery

-vhelp 5092

The way I interpret his post is the "before" image is before any filtering. The "after" image is after filtering. Of course, he also saved as JPG so that complicates matters. Guess we'll have to wait for the OP to reply...

after reading all your posts i am satisfied with the fact that i'm sure it's the cards fault at the time of purchase i was clueless of multiple range in cards so i will do research into what i expect from a card next time i just thought to try to make the best out of a bad decision and seek for some acvice.. Thanks to everyone for the imput. also, i forgot to add.. when i use win movie maker the quality is fine i just don't like wmv and the mce format i have tried a few pvr's but none where very stable i really like the idea SnappySoft just wish it had better options. oem hardware and there restrictions will definitely be something i will stear clear in the furture. Thanks again everyone.

Originally Posted by allthumbs

when i use win movie maker the quality is fine

That sounds like a software issue then. If it was analog noise it would show up in every program.