Do they make sd dvd recorders with qam tuners?

Originally Posted by yoda313

What I'd like is to be able to go back to the way it was with the analog cable. I'd like to be able to feed the signal direclty to the dvd recorder and have the dvd recorder operate the tuner.

Unfortunately that ship has sailed: if you're stuck with Comcast, forget whatever convenience you used to have with analog "boxless" cable. As disappointing and obnoxious as ATSC is, QAM is ten times worse: a more useless standard would be hard to find. QAM only works if your cable company cooperates, and very very few are cooperating. Comcast is actually openly hostile, and is in the process of rendering QAM completely moot as it forces "boxless" customers to digital service. So you need to squelch any dreams you had of using a recorder with multi-event timer and QAM to change channels automatically in timer mode using boxless cable: that feature is essentially dead and it ain't coming back, especially not on Comcast.

Your choices now are not wonderful. You can opt for multiple digital adapter boxes, so you can connect at least two to your old recorders line 1 and line 2 inputs to switch between two different channels. That may suffice if all you want to do is timeshift the prime time lineup on a given evening, but if you're used to loading up eight or ten timer slots, don't bother with the piddly adapter boxes: save your sanity and just rent an additional PVR from Comcast. Connect it to your DVD recorder for live backups, or just copy the shows from PVR to DVD recorder later.

Before 100 people flame me that "their boxless QAM works fine", I'm not saying right this minute that QAM does not work at all for anyone. But it is problematic at best and being completely neutralized at worst. Many recorders with QAM tuners are also infested with hyperactive false copy protection reactions, so even if your cable company hasn't messed up its QAM service yet, your shiny new QAM recorder will randomly decide it "can't record" your QAM shows. The only two QAM-equipped recorders that don't do this are the Panasonic EZ-28 and the Magnavox H2160A (good luck finding them in stock anywhere). If you have Comcast especially, don't even try: they have you by the short hairs. The only convenient solution is to cough up for an additional Comcast PVR rental.

QAM is used for both encrypted and unencrypted digital cable channels. For the most part, cable companies view the switch to digital as an opportunity to force you to rent more cable boxes. You'll probably find that there are very few cable channels available via open (unencrypted) QAM. Your local broadcast channels (required by law) and a handfull of others like a local cable access channel, a shopping channel, etc. All the others will be encrypted and unavailable without a CableCard (and more subscription fees). If you have an HDTV it probably has a QAM tuner. See what channels you get with it.

Orsetto is correct and one thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is cable companies(read Comcast) like to periodically rearrange their clear QAM channels. So if you've got a device like a DVDR set to record from specific channels you've got to hope they don't decide to change the channels while you're gone. If you pay for their STB or DVR it will automatically tune to the correct channel. And don't forget about SDV,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switched_digital_video
it's a scheme being rolled out all over where channels can change hourly or more depending if anybody's watching the channel. The future for cable is STBs just like it is for satellite TV.

I think it does vary from region to region or from one cableco to another. I have Time Warner in NYC, the QAM feed works just fine with several different machines..... Philips 3575H, LG RC897T, Panasonic DMR EZ48VK, LG LST3410A.
Most of the available QAM channels here are just re-broadcasts of Network HD shows, like CBS, NBC, FOX, etc.
I still need the cable box to get TNT, USA, A&E or other non-broadcast network programming, however.
The easiest way to find out is to connect your cable line directly to your HDTV, assuming it has a QAM tuner, and do a
channel scan. I haven't had too many problems with Copy Protection, but it does crop up now and then.

The LGs are a 50/50 roll of the dice, like almost every brand/model in todays market. If its any indication, the DVD/VHS combos they make for JVC nowadays have one of the worst track records for hyperactive false copy protection shutdowns during timer recording, and the LG DVD/HDD machines sold in Canada have a very poor reliability rep. To keep that in perspective, the inexplicably popular Panasonic EZ-48 trips over itself the second you power it on, the Funai-sourced Toshibas are a complete crapshoot, and current Sonys are the most-complained about for "won't record anything". Phillips/Magnavox with HDD, and simple DVD-only Panasonic EZ-28, are the only ATSC/QAM machines not being roasted over the coals every day in forum discussions.

And as discussed, a perfectly-functioning QAM recorder gains you exactly nothing if you're on Comcast and they force a chintzy quasi-decoder-box on you to receive their now-standard digital cable.

It depends. We don't have Comcast in Brooklyn, so I haven't seen one of their weird little "digital adapters" myself. But I've heard a lot of discontented grumbling from some of my Comcast-cursed forum friends (who are way more cable-literate than I am). A few are OK with the Comcast adapter, mainly because its "free" and $$$ is all they're concerned about. Others who are more picky feel the functionality and especially the video quality of the adapter is crummy when compared to the full-scale decoder box. Usually I agree the decoder box is the safest bet, but lately all the cable monopolies (including Time Warner here in New YorK) are phasing out the eight-event program timer that used to be standard in all digital decoder boxes. The newest boxes omit the timer, making auto-channel change impossible. If one enjoys conspiracy theories, one could assume this is the cable companies' subtle way of pushing us to pay extra for the upgraded decoder box with built in PVR, which of course does have an endless supply of timer slots.

Unfortunately the infrared channel-changing dongle disappeared from the North American market in 2006, right along with the consumer-unloved expensive DVD/HDD recorders they were attached to. Panasonic supposedly still sells the EA-18 tunerless DVD-only recorder, which is their sole current machine designed expressly for cable box compatibility and is the only current model that includes the IR channel-change dongle. But good luck finding one: the EA-18 (and the EA-38 with VHS) are almost never seen in stores and rarely in stock from online dealers. Whether it could operate the new funky Comcast adapters is another question: they apparently use a new remote code set, which even TiVO requires a software upgrade to deal with.

The whole Comcast "digital adapter" stunt has the other cable monopolies scratching their heads: they're all watching to see how this plays out. On the face of it, these "adapters" make absolutely no sense for the consumer OR Comcast: they're merely crippled miniature versions of a standard set-top decoder box. They lack any channel guide info, can't receive premium channels and can't do any free or paid on-demand requests. Arguably they're "cheaper" for the consumer to rent than a normal cable box, but seriously people: why the hell bother? If your provider forces you to rent an adapter for anything beyond the dozen free broadcast stations, you may as well spend $4.99/mo for the "real" box than opt for these cheezy discount adapters at $1.99. The image quality of the cheap adapters is reputedly awful, and they lock you out of spontaneously deciding you want to use free on-demand or subscribe to a premium channel (however briefly) for a big upcoming event you want to see.

No third-party channel-changers: they kinda need to be integrated into the recorder for it to work easily. I suppose someone clever could jigger something with a PC: it should be fairly simple for an experienced programmer to write an eight or twelve event clock-timer that shoots a signal thru a USB IR dongle. But you'd need the dongle, a software engineer, and a PC sitting near the Comcast adapter: not an ideal solution. Many years ago, there was a super-expensive remote called the "Cloud 9" that I think could actually be used this way if you left it near the decoder box: I wonder if any of the pricey current Harmonys could be jiggered for this, or maybe an old Palm Pilot?

Sorry about the mix-up, yoda313: yes, you're right, the first two adapters are supposedly "free". Still, reading thru the various tech blogs of gearheads who are already dealing with this situation, I get the impression the "free" offer is not all its cracked up to be and there's a "gotcha" in there somewhere. And of course, "free and crappy" isn't really free after all: if the adapters are so bad they aren't worth recording off of, we're back to square one with "give it up and rent the normal $4.99 full-feature decoder box". Which is really what this is all about and what I've been warning of for years: "boxless" is goin bye-bye, like it or not. The crummy free adapters are pretty much a band aid to bridge you over to either a full box or a PVR. There is absolutely no benefit to Comcast giving out these cruddy adapters if they didn't think it would drive you into an upgrade fairly soon: investing millions in dinky adapters just to maintain the status quo of frugal subscribers would blow a hole in their profits otherwise.

The free box is a legal requirement since they cable companies have to allow you access to the local broadcast channels w/o a box rental fee. The box allows them to do this if they no longer support analog tuners.

The pack of jackals that run Comcast have a track record of paying the barest lip service to cable regulation laws. There's no way in hell they're "generously" giving out these adapters unless there's a profit motive involved. If they just wanted to observe the legal niceties, it would be simpler to just keep the analog going for the boxless tier, which is kind of what they're doing for now: according to reports from Calafornia, anyway, the adapter is only necessary for channels above 29. Thats the letter of the law: bare-bones broadcast channels. If you happen to be one of the three or four hundred people in the entire USA who actually enjoys limiting their cable bill (and service) to the half-dozen broadcast stations, fine: everyone else is gonna pack it in and opt for upgraded packages once the drawbacks of these chintzy "free" adapters become unbearable. Thats probably Comcasts's end game.