Forum Archive Home -> DVD Recorders -> what dvd recorder for copyprotected tapes
what dvd recorder for copyprotected tapes | ||
| pop3 posted 2008 Feb 14 03:09 | ||
| Can anyone recommend a DVD recorder around the $200 range and video filter for making good copies of copy protected tapes?
I had a Phillips 985 recorder a few years ago and the recorder itself was pretty bad; alot of errors, coaster discs and the copies wouldn't play sometimes in DVD players, made me wait awhile till the technology improved before buying a new one. So hopefully one that is more stable than that. I also used a DVD filter then and the copies would comes out a bit darker than the original, they were still watchable and not always noticeable except when the movie was dark to begin with, the copy would look darker and it would be hard to see things in the movie or a dark skinned/black person will look darker in the copy. Not sure if it was the filter or the recorder itself, so just looking for a stable setup that can come out as close to the originals at possible. | ||
| oldandinthe way posted 2008 Feb 14 08:10 | ||
| This forum does not provide piracy advice. | ||
| Baldrick posted 2008 Feb 14 08:22 | ||
| You are allowed to discuss how to backup your own tapes whatever copyprotection they have. | ||
| oldandinthe way posted 2008 Feb 14 08:29 | ||
| Thank you Baldrick.
Solutions run as cheaply as the $50 DVD recorders at Walmart and videostabilizers run from $25 - $50. Sima makes one and there are others available through Google search. For best results do not use longer than 2 hour mode to record. | ||
| orsetto posted 2008 Feb 14 10:03 | ||
| During the past year, good stabilizers have essentially been sued off the market, and the second-tier generic models (Grex, etc.) have not exactly garnered an unblemished reputation as substitutes. A year ago you could find a decent stabilizer cheaply, today a mint second-hand Sima CT-2 or CT-200 fetches $150 on eBay. :(
If your protected tapes are strictly from the old school, say pre-2005, you can usually get by with one of the older pre-DVD stabilizers. These are usually available cheaply because they are in less demand (they do not help with DVD to DVD backup issues, only VHS to DVD). For around $30 you should be able to find a generic, literal "black box" about the size of a cigarette pack with video in/out jacks sticking out of one end. These almost always work. DVD recorders are dead in the water now in the USA market, so there aren't many good models available anymore. I would start with the $50 specials at Wal*Mart as oldandintheway suggested above, take one home and try it. If it doesn't make good DVDs for you, Wal*Mart has a generous return/exchange policy. If you don't like the cheap models, you can try a new Panasonic at Best Buy etc. The Panasonics are the only premium brand units left for sale in the US with any track record of mechanical solidity. The current Sonys are totally hostile to any sort of copying, even off air, and current Toshibas are not much better. Pioneer and JVC have left the market altogether. If you can up your budget to roughly $280, try the Phillips 3575 at Wal*Mart or Best Buy. This is a much- promoted model here on the forums, as it is the last remaining new US model with a hard drive built in. The hard drive option offers a GREAT deal more flexibility than the DVD-drive-only models, so this one is well worth a look. | ||
| jjeff posted 2008 Feb 14 10:55 | ||
| I second the previous post and agree with the Panny, but the current EZ series are a bit buggy in there tuner, but I haven't really had any problems with them making coasters. You should be able to get the EZ-17 and if you don't need a tuner you could wait for the EA-18, maybe they'll have some of the bugs worked out on the new model.
Otherwise the 3575 is a nice machine, but ~$100 over budget. I have a CT-2 and it works great. Other people have liked the Grex, you could search for threads on it, I believe there are a few out there. If not here, on AVS. | ||
| samijubal posted 2008 Feb 14 12:42 | ||
Sima hasn't made stabilizers for about 2 years now. You can get a generic stabilizer like mentioned above from MCM Electronics for $22 + shipping. I've had one for years, it works fine for VHS. It also gets rid of the picture curving at the top of the screen on some TVs when playing copy protected tapes. http://www.mcminone.com/product.asp?product_id=80-4280&catalo ... CMProducts | ||
| lordsmurf posted 2008 Feb 14 12:54 | ||
| Look in the restoration forum for this topic. It's covered in a sticky.
Stabilizers fail at least half the time. Only a TBC is foolproof. | ||
| jjeff posted 2008 Feb 14 13:19 | ||
| I agree TBC'ers are the way to go, but they can be quite spendy. I have copied just about all my DVD's(100's) and never had my CT-200 fail to make a copy, so I'm not sure what you mean by fail 1/2 of the time? But my older Sima would only copy VHS's, not DVD's. That's why I got the CT-200. I believe the manual says it totally recreates the vertical interlace signal, or something to that effect, so maybe it is doing some kind of TBC? I admit I don't totally know what it does, I just know it works all the time, at least for me.
EDIT: I looked on the back of my SIMA, IT's a CT-2(not 200) I will edit my above post also, I also found my old SIMA that only copies VHS's and it's a SED-CM. If you lived near Minneapolis I'd sell it cheap since I never use it anymore, but I really don't want to mail it. It worked well for VHS's, but not at all for DVD's. | ||
| orsetto posted 2008 Feb 14 15:15 | ||
| TBCs are good if you can lay hands on one affordably, but these days new ones sell for triple the price of a DVD recorder! They are somewhat of an overkill if your tapes are in good condition and all you're worried about is the protection issue. For this any of the old style cheaper stabilizers will work just fine.
Three years ago some of the better-quality recorders from JVC and Pioneer etc. were extremely sensitive to various tape distortions, especially protection interference, and they pretty much required a TBC to transfer such tapes because a simple stabilizer wasn't enough to keep vertical lines straight and keep the image from tearing. "Modern" recorders dating from 2005 and later have much-improved input buffers, a recorder you buy in a store today should manage fine with just the simple stabilizer box. The inexpensive MCM box mentioned by samijubal should be perfect for you- I have that one myself and can verify it works great for tapes if used with a relatively recent DVD recorder. | ||
| coody posted 2008 Feb 14 21:13 | ||
| Is TBC workable for DVD to DVD copy or only tape to DVD? Where can it be found? | ||
| guns1inger posted 2008 Feb 14 21:42 | ||
| DVD to DVD copying should always be done through digital copy on a PC, not analogue player-to-player copying.
videoguys.com is a starting place for TBCs. | ||
| bevills1 posted 2008 Feb 15 08:53 | ||
| You might also consider one of the LiteOn 50xx recorders such as the LVW-5005 which can be hacked to remove macrovision copy protection eliminating the need for a stabilizer, i.e. if you can find one. I think production of these models has been stopped. | ||
| coody posted 2008 Feb 15 10:31 | ||
| I do have a LiteOn LVW-5005. It has a lot of problems. We have already discussed it a lot at http://forum.videohelp.com/topic344916.html#1807099 | ||
| pepegot1 posted 2008 Feb 15 11:27 | ||
| Try this stabilizer-it works well. http://www.checkhere22.com/stabilizer/ | ||
| lordsmurf posted 2008 Feb 15 11:32 | ||
| No recorder will easily allow for copying of protected tapes at all times.
All there is to it. Sorry. | ||
| handyguy posted 2008 Feb 15 11:43 | ||
| Actually, if you use a macro-free dvd player as the source input you can use any dvd recorder. | ||
| wtsinnc posted 2008 Feb 15 13:53 | ||
| If you can find one, "The Clarifier" from Facet Video is capable of doing what you ask. I own one and it's performed perfectly with my Panasonic DMR-E80H. I bought it in 2004 and just searched for Facet Video without success, so it's very possible they have gone out of business or were bought out/merged with another company. In the process of my search, I did find several vendors advertising The Clarifier, so they are apparently available. I haven't searched Ebay, but I know they occasionally pop up there. Typically, the asking prices I have seen are between $40.00 and $150.00 as there are several models to choose from. Be advised that my experience was exclusively to back up video DVDs, not video games or DVD audio discs so I cannot vouch for it's effectiveness in allowing for backup of those formats or in removing the very latest in copy protection from the latest releases or from HD or Blue Ray DVDs. I can tell you that it was able to remove the copy protection from "Memoirs Of A Geisha", "The Queen", and "The Mask Of Zorro" among others. Good luck in your search. | ||
| LCSHG posted 2008 Feb 15 15:02 | ||
| wtsinnc
Is it being said that these clarifiers will eliminate all CP from a Commercial DVD. Because of claims made I tried some and had NO Luck with any DVD CP disk including The Mask of Zorro. Could you post the model #. | ||
| wtsinnc posted 2008 Feb 15 15:44 | ||
| I am looking for the documentation now. The unit itself has no model number imprinted on it. It is a simple black box measuring about 6"w X 4.5" d x 1.5" h and has five inputs/outputs; S-Video in/out, composite in/out, and an input jack for the ASC power adapter. I have found the sales receipt which lists the unit ID as FV0001. The unit is somewhat older than I thought, purchased from Facet Video 01-22-2004 for $89.95 plus s&h. I hope this helps. | ||
| orsetto posted 2008 Feb 15 16:23 | ||
| We may be straying a bit from the OPs question, which was about backing up his old protected *tapes* to DVD. The protection on nearly all *tapes* can be stripped by almost any clarifier/stabilizer black box of any vintage and allow transfer to a DVD recorder.
For those of you branching off into discussion of DVD to DVD backup: the clarifier/stabilizer situation becomes much more murky. DVD protection is constantly mutating and the DVD clarifier that worked yesterday may be obsolete today. DVD to DVD backup is best done on a PC with software control of the process. If for some reason you need to do a wired backup via a DVD player-to-recorder connection, you will very probably need a Sima CT-200 filter or a full blown TBC to bluff the recorders "CP shutdown" sensor. Most clarifiers won't cut it and even those that do can sometimes introduce undesirable side effects. Use a computer if at all possible. | ||
| wtsinnc posted 2008 Feb 15 17:17 | ||
| Agreed, and I also agree with the earlier post stating that DVD to DVD backup should be accomplished via a computer in that the process in much faster and the results more uniform. My original post was intended to be a helpful response to his question and simply related to the OP (my) personal experience using The Clarifier to transfer to a DVD recorder. At the time "Memoirs Of A Geisha" and the others I mentioned in my first post were released, computer backup of those titles was unsuccessful using any software at my disposal and based on the multitude of posts on this and other websites, the problem was pretty much universal. As a last resort I tried backup using my DVD player to the Clarifier to the DMR-E80H and much to my surprise it worked. The same was true for several other new releases which could not be ripped using DVD Decrypter, DVDFab Decrypter, CloneDVD/AnyDVD, 1clickdvdcopy pro/dvd43, or any other program(s) I tried. It now seems that backup software development has progressed to the point where new protection schemes are defeated almost as quickly as they are introduced, rendering DVD recorders and outboard copy protection removal hardware nearly obsolete. Still, I will continue to use my Clarifier if and when needed and recommend it to anyone who might consider using their set top recorder for DVD backup. | ||
| orsetto posted 2008 Feb 15 18:23 | ||
Thank you for reminding us, this is one VERY good reason why someone might occasionally need to go the player-to-recorder backup route instead of using a PC. If you're heading off on a trip and need a backup for your portable, but the disc is a new title with new protections not yet covered by a software upgrade, your only option is to make an analog backup. Last month I mentioned in passing I sometimes make wired backups, and had my head handed to me on a plate by forum members who were LIVID at the mere thought of my not using a PC. I was so stunned by the strong reaction I momentarily forgot my reasoning, which was EXACTLY the situation you outlined above. The only problem is you can't always rely on a clarifier to work either: depending on the disc and the recorder it can still fail. For example, you would be astonished at the large number of old Fox black&white catalog DVD titles, selling for below $10 in stores, that have more embedded protection than the gold at Fort Knox. Almost NOTHING will allow machine to machine backup of those titles, even several TBCs I tried failed to mask the (presumably CGMS) recorder lockout. The only thing that worked was a Sima CT-200. Go figure. | ||
| LCSHG posted 2008 Feb 15 21:28 | ||
| wtsinnc
Orsetto At the bottom of this thread, there is a advertisement for Digital Video Stabilizers. Do you feel that it would eliminate any issues with Analog or Digital CP, as implied? | ||
| wtsinnc posted 2008 Feb 16 10:37 | ||
| I see no such advertisement at the bottom of this thresd.
My experience with outboard hardware solutions is strictly limited to the aformentioned "Clarifier" and an older unit called "The Video Digital Stabilizer RXII" which was designed for video tape copy protection (Macrovision) removal only, so I am not qualified to recommend anything that I haven't tried. | ||
| jjeff posted 2008 Feb 16 11:38 | ||
| I also could find no such ad? | ||
| LCSHG posted 2008 Feb 16 12:03 | ||
| It was an Add By Google at the very bottom. It has been changed and is no longer there
The product advertised has a yahoo address but was referred in the advertisement http://quaindinc.stores.yahoo.net/noname.html Edit Now it seems back. It may be changed a number of times The Link is correct | ||
| wtsinnc posted 2008 Feb 16 12:11 | ||
| The fifth item (Qualitek Industries VS-1 @$24.95) appears identical to the macrovision eliminator that I own. For me, it does a fairly good job- no complaints really. Provided it is as good as what I have, you should be happy with the purchase. | ||
| LCSHG posted 2008 Feb 16 13:37 | ||
| wtsinnc
A person had purchased one of these units and had no luck at all with DVD. Very little with VHS. The disclaimers tell the story. It was given to me to try out I found the unit very limited and unsatisfactory with VHS and of NO Value at all with DVD > CP. While there are other alternatives, a TBC is the best way to go for VHS >MV But has no effect on digital DVD. I find it difficult to understand why you feel that the software you mentioned would not work but the Clarifier did. Handyguy There are DVD units [no longer made] that can be made MV free. However while many ignore MV. They do pass it on, hence they are not a filter for VHS MV to another recorder. Many [not all] older DVD players do this. coody No Offence You are fighting the problem Fix What You Have [the 5005] for your purpose, it is one of the Best PS I have not found anyone on these forms LIVID that I dont use a PC | ||
| wtsinnc posted 2008 Feb 16 14:19 | ||
| LCSHG:
My post simply related MY experience with a device very similar in appearance to the Qualitek Industries VS-1. MY experience with the unit I own has been good; that is and remains the ONLY point I wanted to make. I also stressed that I used my device to remove Macrovision from video tapes, NOT DVDs. Whatever result you or anyone else experienced is totally immaterial regarding MY comments and the results I achieved, so please refrain from any further statements regarding your doubts regarding MY particular experience(s). BTW: Most of the modification(s) to hardware such as a DVD player in order to bypass CSS or other content protection schemes in DVDs will not only void a warranty, but are problematic at best and require updates to be useful with the newer DVDs. The "black box" device I own for removal of Macrovision from VIDEO TAPES continues to work to my satisfaction. I own a Facet Video Clarifier for use with my video recorders, and I employ various backup software for computer use. All of these measures serve a particular purpose. In short, there is no panacea. | ||
| LCSHG posted 2008 Feb 16 15:25 | ||
| Wtsinnc
Your Quotes ---------------------------------------------------- Be advised that my experience was exclusively to back up video DVDs, I cannot vouch for it's effectiveness in allowing for backup of those formats or in removing the very latest in copy protection from the latest releases or from HD or Blue Ray DVDs. As a last resort I tried backup using my DVD player to the Clarifier to the DMR-E80H and much to my surprise it worked. The same was true for several other new releases which could not be ripped using DVD Decrypter, DVDFab Decrypter, CloneDVD/AnyDVD, 1clickdvdcopy pro/dvd43, or any other program(s) I tried. ----------------------------------------------------- Now you say Quote I also stressed that I used my device to remove Macrovision from video tapes, NOT DVDs. It sure sounded as you were speaking of CP removal, using a Clarifier, from DVD, HD, Blu-Ray | ||
| wtsinnc posted 2008 Feb 16 16:30 | ||
| LCSHG:
You are taking information from different posts by me regarding two completely different outboard devices. Suffice to say that unlike you, I was able to successfully implement "The Clarifier" for DVD backup and posted this information in hopes that it might be of some value to the OP or anyone else. To be sure, "The Clarifier" also bypasses Macrovision but I failed to mention that in my first post. I posted again 02-16-'08 at 10:37 in direct response to your question to me regarding the ad from Qualitek Industries and stated that the model VS-1 strongly resembled my Macrovision eliminator- a completely different device from "The Clarifier". In that post, I stated that my personal experience with the Macrovision eliminator had been positive. Your response(s) to my honest and accurate statements about both devices was, essentially, to call me a liar. I have no way of knowing (and really no longer care) why your stated experiences with these units was unsatisfactory. A guess is that you didn't know what you were doing or, perhaps, failed to comprehend the instructions just as you fail to comprehend my posts. I refuse to pursue this topic with you any further because it is obvious that you are simply looking for something and someone to disagree with. My experiences with both of the devices discussed by me has been positive and will continue to be and yours has not. You're just d***ed unlucky, I guess. | ||
| lordsmurf posted 2008 Feb 19 17:17 | ||
| wtsinnc, "liar" and "lacking experience" (or "lucky") are separate concepts. Every time I read a story about how a clarifier "removes it on every tape", I just shake my head. Those devices fail a large amount of the time, and many people don't actually WATCH the video that was transferred. There are often on-screen errors, sometimes dropped frames, other times complete choking of the digital recorder that see anti-copy (be it MV or others).
Only a TBC is 99.99% effective. Other devices far less. Your experience will vary on your selection of tapes, but for an OVERALL SITUATION, it's not all that hot. Luck has nothing to do with it. Hence the posts we've made (LCSHG, myself, others in other threads and reviews). Remember your advice may be read by others, so let's not mislead them unintentionally. Personally, I'm glad it worked out for you. You saved money by avoiding a TBC. I recommend clarifiers when budgets are low, and risk is accepted by the buyer. But they need to know the risks, and many of these clarifiers are so pricey that you may as well get the TBC. | ||
| lordsmurf posted 2008 Feb 19 17:22 | ||
| "Most of the modification(s) to hardware such as a DVD player in order to bypass CSS or other content protection schemes in DVDs will not only void a warranty, but are problematic at best and require updates to be useful with the newer DVDs"
-- FYI, this is not true. However, I don't suggest hardware mods either. | ||
| bevills1 posted 2008 Feb 20 10:36 | ||
| coody, some solutions to LiteON LVW-5005 recorder problems were given in your thread. I just realized I'd some how not seen your 1/31 post to that thread and just now replied to your last question there. I agree with LCSHG that the 5005 is 1 of the best solutions and have found no problem I couldn't fix. | ||
| jet757f posted 2008 Feb 25 00:29 | ||
| Well how about you output your DVD from the Liteon LVW-5007 (region free) to the hard drive of the Liteon LVW-5045. Seems to work pretty good although slow in real time. |
Login/Register to our forum to be able to post here.