Forum Archive Home -> Advanced Video Conversion -> VideoNow Color (and Jr) Video Conversions
| VideoNow Color (and Jr) Video Conversions | ||||
| VideonowDude posted 2005 Mar 03 16:28 | ||||
| Thought I should start a new thread for VideoNow Color discussions, as the original thread http://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1241647#1241647 has 16 pages talking about the b/w version, which is quite different, and only moves onto the Color stuff at the end. | ||||
| VideonowDude posted 2005 Mar 03 16:43 | ||||
| What is special about that first VideoNow Color track? If you miss it out, you get the 'no disc' icon soon after the clock. If you include it, you hear some extra seeks, maybe it is checking the disc isn't a 3" one or something? It looks just like any other track from a format perspective, but the player treats it specially.
Not only is it somehow used as a part of a verification algorithm, but you can't FF or skip through it, a bit like the FBI warnings on the front of a DVD. | ||||
| chess_883 posted 2005 Mar 03 17:46 | ||||
| VideoNowDude, Let me refresh my mind, correct me if I'm wrong:
-You figured out the videonow color format, right -You Made working discs for the player, right? Can you e-mail me or something teaching me how you extracted images from the VideoNow Color disc, and how you converted the video to play in the player, how you managed to put in that extra track to play it, and basically, can you tell me everything that you did and how you did it? Please? I would surely appreciate it. Thanx! Ivan | ||||
| skelex posted 2005 Mar 03 18:25 | ||||
| I made a test disc with VideoNowDude's guide and template...IT WORKS! Rather than mess with the player, I trimmed a cd-r to size (burn disc first, put a label on it, trace a VNC original disc, and cut with utility scissors). The only trouble I am having is the VideoNow Color player will freeze if I push the PREV or NEXT buttons. Good work VideoNowDude!
Skelex | ||||
| BJ_M posted 2005 Mar 03 18:45 | ||||
| im going to try this for the heck of it - i got a color video now on sale a few months ago for $19 and got 5 disks (color) at a flea market for $5
but it be nice to get some more material ... | ||||
| VideonowDude posted 2005 Mar 03 20:16 | ||||
| chess_88: PM me your email and I'll send you my beta.
Continuing the saga of The First Track: I just read a Blues Clues disc in Nero and the tracks have names! Track 1 is called VNC_00_18fpslogo_Security. This confirms the first track is used for security, plus determines the format of the disc. Maybe other formats are supported? I think the b/w player had an 'extended play' mode didn't it? Other track names: VNC_99_End is the End of Disc msg, VNC_NewFill is the blank final track that is never played. | ||||
| chess_883 posted 2005 Mar 04 01:26 | ||||
| VideoNowDude, thanks for the converting files and all those things, well You are so great! Oh, I'm not done making my first VideoNow Color Disc, but I don't have a copy of Nero Burning ROM, and I checked the website and the download was 30.1 mb, too bad my computer is on dial-up and will take 2 and a half hours to download, well Can you post instructions on how to do the things you did with NERO, but with lets say CDRWIN, you are familiar aren't you? Well please post back, And Again, U R D BOMB! :) | ||||
| chess_883 posted 2005 Mar 05 13:29 | ||||
| Hey VideoNowDude, or anybody else who knows what I'm talking about, is there a way to extract the wav files from an existing VideoNow Color disc and then view the content on the computer? Actually, I have a copy of the VideoNow black & white viewer on the computer, but it only plays the files (.BIN) you create with VNConvert, which is a Program in which you can crate self booting VideoNow black and white discs. I'll try to extract a VideoNow black and white disc using CDRWIN, and try to play it on the viewer. Oh I almost forgot, the VideoNow black and white viewer only plays the video and is very slow. Thanx! :roll: | ||||
| VideonowDude posted 2005 Mar 06 01:13 | ||||
| First track "security" has been determined: there has to be at least some frame data for a 107th frame. The pre-recorded discs I have all have different amounts of this last weird frame, but I created a clip of exactly 107 frames with my own audio and video, and it boots perfectly. (106 frames does not work).
If this first track does determine the format of the disc, then that info must be encoded in the constant blocks of data that are the same in all the discs I have looked at. I was kind of hoping for some machine code to be found in the magic track, which might have allowed skipping the mini-CD size check, but I guess not. | ||||
| Danik posted 2005 Mar 06 12:08 | ||||
| Hi there!!! Somebody help me, please! I've got VidioNow Color Player, but in our country (I'm from Belarus) I didn't find any disks for it. As I understood you've managed to create your own Color VideoNow disk. Send me the method of the creation & security tracks on my e-mail (danik666@yandex.ru), please. Thank you in advance. Danik. :?: | ||||
| chess_883 posted 2005 Mar 06 15:15 | ||||
| That's Great! So now to make a videonow color disc, you dont have to copy the start trac? I just have to make a custom video that is exactly 107 frames or more? <-This is what I didn't get, 107 or more frames, exactly 107 frames, or less than 107 frames exept 106 frames? Please Reply :) | ||||
| ppcinfo posted 2005 Mar 06 17:01 | ||||
| Can someone tell me what is the diameter of a VideoNow disk?
Thanks, ppcinfo | ||||
| VideonowDude posted 2005 Mar 07 09:04 | ||||
| Sorry, at the time I hadnt tried it, but I can confirm that 108 frames doesnt work, it must be 107 frames, which with my encoder corresponds to a file size of exactly 2,099,292 bytes.
The commercial discs I looked at all had slightly different length intro tracks, but all were 106+ tracks: the official encoder includes a partial frame at the end of each track, so they all have 106 complete frames, and a seemingly randomly sized partial 107th frame. My encoder doesnt, I only emit full frames, hence the requirement for 107 frames. So now you can use my encoder to make your own start track. Remember this is 107 VDN frames, which means 9.4444444 seconds of your video. Due to the frame conversion rounding, it might take a couple of tries to get exactly 107 VDN frames, check the file size to be sure. ppcinfo the VideoNow uses 108mm discs, and as far as I can tell is the only device to use this size. | ||||
| BJ_M posted 2005 Mar 07 09:26 | ||||
| they still advertise these on amazon - looks like they really dont have them though ..
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0002WPVRS/103-3872 ... 4?v=glance | ||||
| ppcinfo posted 2005 Mar 07 11:11 | ||||
VideoNowDude, Following the instructions with your beta software, I have the following files in a folder: VDN Start.wav VDN Audo.wav VDN Track 01.wav VDN Track 02.wav VDN Track 03.wav VDN Track 04.wav VDN Track 05.wav VDN Almost Last.wav VDN End.wav Thumbs.db Based on your previous comments, do I need to do anything special to get 107 VDN frames? How do I know if I successfully have 107 VDN frames? I don't have a VideoNow Color player, so I can't test the final product myself (I'm creating a disk for my niece who lives in a different state). Any suggestions would be appreciated! ppcinfo | ||||
| skelex posted 2005 Mar 07 12:14 | ||||
| I believe that the 107 VDN frames is for creating your own start track. If you are using a start track from an original VNColor disc you wil not need to do this step. | ||||
| brs72 posted 2005 Mar 07 16:06 | ||||
| Hey Videonowdude...
Just Like chess_883, I would LOVE to try the app. I've been checking MyStuffnow videonow website for updates as well as following the other thread. I'd bought two of these for my two girls (five and eight) for christmas. I've bought about 10 Videonow discs and I'd really like to put some shows I've extracted from my DVR for them to give them some variety. Would you be interested in sharing/selling? Thanks Bill | ||||
| chess_883 posted 2005 Mar 07 18:06 | ||||
| Has anybody noticed?, but I keep trying mystuffnow.com and it seems not to exist. I have tried it in the past and it seems that it's not a site anymore. I'f I'm wrong, please contact me. I might have the site address wrong. Oh, and about my earlier post, I put a videonow black and white disc in my computer, started CDRWIN, selected the extract button , checked the Image/Cuesheet, and extracted the files. I got a .BIN file and I used the VideoNow black and white viewer and got a clear image which was out of place, but clear. I want to know how to do the same with a color disc. VideoNowDude, how did you extract the Fairly Odd Parents image in page 17 of the black and white forum and view it? Please Contact Me. Thanx | ||||
| chess_883 posted 2005 Mar 07 18:12 | ||||
| Has anybody heard from Greg Smith? (author of videothen) Just wondering! :D | ||||
| GregSmith posted 2005 Mar 07 20:34 | ||||
| i'm still around. i had started a videonow color reader, but you guys are way ahead of me. i'm letting the rest of you figure it out.
btw: mystuffnow got scared away by the tiger/hasbro legal eagles. | ||||
| chess_883 posted 2005 Mar 07 22:27 | ||||
| Greg, LOL(about mystuffnow)!!! what kind of VideoNow Color reader? It can still be useful. | ||||
| VideonowDude posted 2005 Mar 07 23:18 | ||||
| ppcinfo, a 107-frame file will be of size 2,099,292 bytes. You can work out the track break by using 107 / 18 * framerateoforiginalvideo. e.g. if your frame rate is 29.97, this will be frame 178 of your original.
You dont want to put the Audio WAV file on the disc, which I think see in your list. Or Thumbs.db either. Everyone else: I have the 1.0 release ready, I am awaiting a place on the site to put it so you can all download it. | ||||
| VideonowDude posted 2005 Mar 08 13:27 | ||||
| Welcome to VideoNowToGo! This tool allows you to make your own colour discs for Hasbro's Color and Jr. players.
It requires Windows 2000 or XP, and some CD burning software. As it happens, the software is the easy bit. The hardware is the tricky thing, as the player cannot accept regular 5" CD-Rs, or mini-CD-Rs, so you have to do one of these: Modify the player (instructions included with the tool) Cut down a burned cd-r to 108mm Find 108mm cd-rs (good luck!) For now the tool is attached to this post, I hope for a better location soon. Beta users: the filter is unchanged, I updated the docs and added my own magic intro track so ripping an existing disc is no longer required. videonowtogo.zip Update: please do NOT use this link, get the updated version from http://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?p=1341186#1341186 | ||||
| ppcinfo posted 2005 Mar 08 14:04 | ||||
| VideoNowDude,
Thank you very much for your efforts with this. You're going to make my niece really happy, since her uncle can now make whatever cartoon disks she wants! ppcinfo | ||||
| BJ_M posted 2005 Mar 08 14:24 | ||||
| thank you very much -- this is great ...
if you want -- i can mirror the file for you .. | ||||
| brs72 posted 2005 Mar 08 18:03 | ||||
| You ROCK!!!!
I can't wait to start playing around with this.... My wife and Kids thank you. Thanks so much Bill | ||||
| brs72 posted 2005 Mar 10 11:12 | ||||
| Hey everyone....
Could someone please post feedback as to the success/failure of their discs? Either I'm doing something wrong, or I'm a complete moron. I've been doing video for about 4 years, thousands of vcd's and dvd's, but I'm stumped with this videonow stuff... I followed the steps, step by step (Except for modifying the player, I want to make sure I can make a working disc before I do a mod, or is it a required step.) I've been trimming the cd's to match the size of the videonow disc. I did: 1. Took a 10 Minute Danger Mouse clip and converted it to 352/240 48K audio (Stereo) 2. Extracted the audio to wave 3. Converted the video following the instructions with Virtualdub 1.5.10 4. Burned with Nero ( I have 5.5.9.9) I've done this with 2 types of CD-r's. Walmarts cheap "Durabrand" and "Sony" I've used the first and Last VDN.wav's that were provided in the dowload Didn't work I went and ripped a Videonow disc from my daughter (Chalkzone) and burned it onto another cd, didn't work I took the first and last file from the Chalkzone cd and combined it with my output file from virtualdub, didn't work. Now, the Dangermouse one I did myself, goes through the clock, and then states "No CD" (The symbol) When I copied a "Chalkzone" cd, it kept going through the clock, and then froze. Wouldn't proceed. I haven't even gotten to the security screen yet. I'm going to start from the beginning and try again, but can anyone provide any insight? I'll glady give more details or anything other info to help clarify things. Don't be afraid to tell me to slow down, and I don't mind making coasters, knowing that when I have a tried and true method in place, coasters will become a thing of the past. (Just like when I was starting out with DVD's) Sorry for the long post, but I'd greatly welcome any ideas or suggestions to fine tune this method for me. And VideonowdDude, you still ROCK.... If it wasn't for you, I wouldn't have even gotten this far, or have gotten my hopes up. Thanks everyone... Bill | ||||
| maxedroom posted 2005 Mar 10 15:43 | ||||
| More feedback.
I burned one successfully. I ripped a VideoNow CD with dbPowerAmp. I took a video clip of my daughter's first ride on a carousel and saved the audio as documented. I followed the instructions to produce the VideoNow track of my source video. I burned the tracks using RecordNow (software that came with my DVD burner) back onto a disk, replacing a track of similar size, but slightly larger, with the track I created. I put a label on the disk and cut it with my utility scissors. I tried it. It went through the clock and then gave me the no disk symbol. I thought back and realized that in my haste I had burned the disk as a data disk and not an audio disk. I re-burned it as an audio disk, labeled it, cut it, and tried it. It Worked! The colors seemed a little muted, not as vibrant as an original and the flesh tones seemed a little green but it worked. The other tracks looked exactly like they did on the original, except of course for the tracks near the outer edge of the disk where the reflective coating was peeling away. It got a little garbled there. :) VideoNowDude, you’ve provided an excellent solution. It uses a familiar program and is fairly easy to perform. Now we just need a way to get good disks that will work and not fall apart. I've seen sites where they can make custom shaped disks but I think they start out with a disk that is only writable on the first 50MB of the inner tracks. The rest is just plastic that they can custom cut. My suggestion for the problem in the previous post, make sure you are burning it as an AUDIO disk and not a DATA disk. Oh, and finally, when I was done, I disposed of the disk and removed the files from my computer, since this was done for educational purposes only and I didn't want to infringe on anyones' copyrights. :wink: | ||||
| brs72 posted 2005 Mar 10 17:46 | ||||
| Well...
Happy to report back........ SUCCESS!!!!! I went and started from scratch..... I did a 23 Minute episode of PBS's Cyberchase, that I extracted off of my replaytv. I re-encoded it to the appropriate VCD specs (with the audio exception) Went through the rest of the steps.... This time I tried it with CDRWin (Thanks Skelex for the suggestion), and VIOLA!!! success!!! Now to see if I can replicate this success..... Thanks to all, and let me know if I can be of any assistance... Thanks Bill | ||||
| loveofpm posted 2005 Mar 10 21:05 | ||||
| VideoNowDude is a parents dream come true...
Made a Gafield and Friends Disc for my 4 year old and he loves it... didn't modify the player just cut the disc... little worried about cutting up $70 player 25 cent disc feels alot better... Also burned with BurnatOnce... no problems, it was the only program i found that worked well with Videothen, and it works great with VideoNowToGo... if this helps those cutting disc.. i made a template disc using the demo disc, lay it on top of disc i'm gonna cut and score it with a box cutter/x-acto knife on both side, cut it about half way though then burn files.... once i have the disc burned i cut it down to to size with scissors... the scoring reduces the damage done to written foil and as long as you only use about 26 minutes on the disc it comes out perfect... Also is it just me... or do a lot of people seam to be putting classics on their videonow's for their kids... my 4 year wants Dangermouse... l8r folks | ||||
| VideonowDude posted 2005 Mar 11 10:38 | ||||
| Glad to see folks having success.
maxedroom, sorry about the colours. I just realized all my tests were conducted with cartoons or puppets, no live action stuff. My crude colour conversion code needs a bit of work by the looks of it. Have to do some research, dont expect a new version any time soon. Keep your originals around and maybe you can re-convert them when I have a new version. | ||||
| JSM522 posted 2005 Mar 11 15:28 | ||||
| Videonow, thanks for your time and effort in creating this awesome tool!
I made a justice league disk and it worked great. I was a little weary of modifying the player so I cut the disk. It wasn't too pretty but the Disk worked until the about the last 5 or 10 minutes (The reflective backing pealed up.) I'll try scoring the CD first with an exacto and see if that helps. For those of you who have modded the regular player (not the jr version) does the CD stick out the side of the player? My main concern is that my kid has to watch out for the spinning disk while he watches his shows. Thanks again Videonowdude! | ||||
| brs72 posted 2005 Mar 13 17:52 | ||||
| Me again...
Ok, I'm making the videonow discs no probs at all. My only issue is the peeling reflective layer. I've tried labels, no labels. I've tried scoring, scoring multiple times, both sides, cutting with scissors. Everything so far, has had the reflective layer peel. Even if it's good on the burn and first cut, a little bit of handling, and it starts to peel. And this is just with me, I haven't had the kids play around yet.... The only thing I've had a decent result with is a printable top. It didn't seem to peel. 1 or 2 small crinkles, but even after repeated handling, no peel..... yet... I was thinking about modding it, but I have a regular player not a junior, and I noticed that there were a couple more spots that touched the full size cd, and right now I kinda chickened out..... So I was wondering..... Anyone having good results with no peeling of the reflective layer? Love to hear any of your stories.... Once again, thanks for everything. Bill | ||||
| ppcinfo posted 2005 Mar 13 21:47 | ||||
| I've cut two CDs down to size using sharp scissors, and I haven't had any issues with peeling. I also am using some relatively "cheap" CD-R disks. Maybe you need to use sharper scissors?
Note, that when cutting the CD I make several straight cuts rather than trying to cut along a circular path. ppcinfo | ||||
| maxedroom posted 2005 Mar 14 08:26 | ||||
| I tried something this weekend that worked well. First I burn the disk. Next I put a label on it. I've created a template with a 108mm circle on it that I print on the label so I don't have to trace a real disk. I use a tile cutter, the one with the sharp wheel that you use to score ceramic tile before snapping it, to score along the 108mm circle to cut the reflective backing. You can probably use an exacto knife. Then I use my really big, sharp scissors and cut approximately 1-2mm from where I scored the disk. Now the tricky part. I then peel away the 1-2mm circle of label/reflective backing from the outter edge of the disk. This leaves 1-2mm of exposed plastic disk on the outer edge. I then slap another label on it and cut away the part of the label that hangs over. This helps stick the first label and the reflective backing back down onto the disk on the outter edge. It's worked a lot better than previous attempts. It still peels a little WHILE i'm cutting it but so far the final product seems better. | ||||
| JSM522 posted 2005 Mar 14 16:35 | ||||
| I think maxedroom has the right idea. I just did the same thing (without using the first label) and it seems to work. I used an exacto to cut the 108mm circle in the reflective coating, Cut it a little larger with utility scissors and peeled away the outer edge and then affixed a final label. So far so good. Looks like I'll be making some disks tonight! | ||||
| flybyu posted 2005 Mar 15 19:38 | ||||
| Well I am having a hard time getting past the security bootup sequence.
I have tried using the VND Track 00(First).wav to the cd-r and it did not work, also tried taking a 178 framed section of my movie clip and using Virtual Dub converted it to 18 frame format at 144 x 80 and tried to copy a ripped first track boot of a legit Now disk, no go. So I cannot figure what i am missing here? Does the supplied track VND Track 00(First).wav at 2,099,292 bytes the proper size to boot past the security point or is the file size needed to be " it must be 107 frames, which with my encoder corresponds to a file size of exactly 2,099,292 bytes" as posted by VideoNowDude? When I use this boot the system will not work and gives me the no cd inside icon? I have followed all other instructions to the T and have used Nero 6.2 and set all tracks to Pause=0 but boot track Pause=2, and have unchecked Remove silence at end of tracks and burnt at 8 times. I have used the 00 boot track first and the 99 end track last in the write sequence. If anyone can help me out as I am stumped right now and have created a few just a few coasters so far. (thats what you do with your bad cd-r's) | ||||
| chess_883 posted 2005 Mar 15 21:29 | ||||
| Hey, you guys ever tried to put just music files into a videonow color disc? well, it would be awesome and everything! I was thinking that if I convert the audio file to 8bit stereo at 17640 sample rate, and burn it straight to a disc (with the booting track and last track), it would work, but then I thought that there is a reason for converting the whole thing into a new wav file that is 2X slower (since the player reads the discs at twice the speed) and 44.1KHz Stereo 16-bit using VideoNowToGo! DUH! So now I'm confused, remember, I just want the audio, not the video, but then again: the player might only be programmed to play video AND audio, so that got me even more confused!
After all my confusion, my next thought wasn't really helping out: a videonow disc is played at double the speed right, so I will only be able to fit like 5 songs on a formatted disc (if I did create a successfully working disc), but then I remembere that the player also plays black and white discs, and are not playing at 2X speed, and since the player doesn't limit black and white video I could fit twice the time, but it would be hard to convert it into a videonow black and white file, but I have software to make a booting track for a black and white disc, So my big question is: Is the audio technically different between a black and white video and a color video disc? If so, can you please contact me? Any ways, I could also copy the first and last tracks from a pre-recorded black and white disc. Please help somebody, I would appreciate it, A LOT! I just want to create a music cd that can play in the videonow player so I can take it anywhere, but that's not the real reason, I want to hear it anywhere ON SPEAKERS! Well, thanx for your help everyone, especially VideoNowDude, for even getting me this far! | ||||
| brs72 posted 2005 Mar 16 03:54 | ||||
| Flybyu...
Try changing burning apps... I tried multiple disks with Nero. I've 5.5.9.9 and no go. It was suggested to me to try Cdrwin. I took one of my existing files and burned with Crdwin, presto, working disc. You might not be doing anything wrong, it just could be the app your using. Worth a shot Thanks Bill | ||||
| flybyu posted 2005 Mar 16 05:25 | ||||
Thanks Bill, will give it a shot. Anything special you are supposed to do in CDRwin to get to work properly. Do you still have to set the first track at Pause=2 and the rest at 0 ? I just downloaded it at do you use the first block in the top left to burn the cd-r and do you use the "Raw Data" feature? Again, thanks for the help! fly | ||||
| brs72 posted 2005 Mar 16 06:29 | ||||
| I Just got into work, I'll double check when I get home, but if I remember correctly, just use the defaults, no special things like nero.
Yes, it's the first block in the upper left, that's what I used. I just loaded the tracks, including the first and last, and then burned. That was it, didn't have to do anything special. Good luck and let me know how ya do.. Bill | ||||
| cflynt posted 2005 Mar 16 17:57 | ||||
| I am still having issues doing this. I am sure I am doing something stupid.
I grabbed the videonowtogo filter and html guide. I am trying to do an mpg from a Looney Toons episode. I open the file in VirtualDub by clicking File - Open Video File Then I click Audio - Full Processing Mode Then Audio - Conversion and select Custom and change it to 17640 for the Sampling Rate. Precision of 8-bit and Channels to Stereo. Then click OK. Then click File - Save WAV and name it VDN Audio.wav Then click Audio - Direct Stream Copy Next I click Video - Filters, and then ADD Resize, change Width to 144 and Height to 80 and click OK. Then ADD and VideoNowToGo Filter. I browse for the Audio VDN Audio.wav file I created earlier, which I save in the same dir as my flick I am converting. Then I browse for the Output directory which is that directory as well. These are already pre-commercial free so I don't do anything with frames. Then I click OK. And OK again to exit the Filters. Then I click Video - Frame Rate and select Convert to fps under Frame rate conversion and put in 18 for the fps. Then I click OK. After all that I click on the Left Skip button to make sure I am at the beginning of the flick and then click the Play with the 0 button to start the conversion. All goes well to the end. Then I close the application and open up my burning software. I have tried with Nero 6.6.0.3 following the exact insturctions from the HTML file, I have also tried CDRWin without changing any options with no avail. It burns fine I add the 00 and 99 tracks, have even gone as far as removing the (First) and (Last) from the filenames to see if that was the problem. After the burn, I trim the CD up with scissors, by first tracing an original VDN cd, yes some of the film comes off around the edges but all of the burned material is still in tact just fine, these are like 20 min episodes so there is plenty of room left on the CD. And each time I put it in the jr player, it always give the No CD symbol. Hopefully I am missing something simple. Any ideas? This is I will state all the same type of media. But they are decent quality media. But that is the ONLY thing I can think of that I have't tried differently. Open to any suggestions. Thanks again for all that have put forth effort on this project. | ||||
| flybyu posted 2005 Mar 16 18:56 | ||||
| Hey buddy, am in the same boat as you.
It has to do with the first 00 boot track, as said before by VideoNowDude the length of the first track must be 107 frames in the 18fps format. When i boot a legit VideoNow disk the unit my go around the clock 1, 2 or up to 4 times before you get the Tiger boot screen. I am wondering if the leading pause needs to be greater instead of 2 make it 3 or more. | ||||
| chess_883 posted 2005 Mar 16 19:06 | ||||
| cflynt, in what order are you burning your files?, it seems like you have the converting part right. Make sure that when using NERO, don't use the StartSmart option, go to the programs menu, and click on Nero Burning Rom, then select the Audio CD option/CDA Options Tab/UNcheck the "Remove silence at the end of audio track"/New/put VDN Track 00 in the beginning, then your wav tracks (created by videonow2go), thenVDN 99 Last/Make sure you select all of them except VDN 00, right click and select properties/change the Pause option from whatever # it is to 0, make sure it's 0/click ok/ select the CD with lit match icon/the burn compilation window will appear, i recommend you don't change anything in this window/ click burn. Also, make sure you are using a CD-R, NOT a CD-RW. I Hope I helped | ||||
| chess_883 posted 2005 Mar 16 19:22 | ||||
| if my forum above didn't help, i provided a folder with 3 wav giles from an original disc, just put VDN FIRST first, VDN ALMOST LAST second to the last and VDN END last, put your converted wav files between the first and almost last tracks, it worked for me! | ||||
| cflynt posted 2005 Mar 16 19:25 | ||||
| Appreciate the help both of you, and unfortunately ya doing it that way, I am an old timer when it comes to burning cd's etc, so I never liked the new smart cd crap that nero has now, I always bypas sit and just put a link to run nero itself! :) But yah doing it that way, I drag the 00 file over first and then put the rest of them there. Do as you said about changing the time to 0 and still no go. I have tried multiple different mpg's all do the same, they are all Looney Toons eps, haven't tried anything else yet, but am guessing that isn't my problem. These are definately cd-r's but like I said I haven't tried differn't brands, cuz I didn't have any other brand, just thought it would be fine. But that is the point I am at currently. Will report back after I try, maybe I have something else that came with a burner or something sitting around. Thanks again. | ||||
| chess_883 posted 2005 Mar 16 19:27 | ||||
| sorry about the message above, i' had problems uploading the files | ||||
| flybyu posted 2005 Mar 16 20:41 | ||||
Hi Chess_883, What is the track "VDN Almost Last" that you are using. I have only tried "VDN 00 First and VDN 99 Last" in my cd-r burns? Tried increasing the pause length to 3 in Nero and no luck yet. Starting to run out of ideas? fly | ||||
| cflynt posted 2005 Mar 17 07:40 | ||||
| Wanted to report back, that I finally have a success. I got a message from someone recommending I try and make a longer flick. The clips I was trying to use were like 15-20 minutes max, and he was guessing that maybe they check for longer flicks being as that is how their's come. Sure enough I just for testing purposes copied the same clip over and over a few times, making it almost the full 70 minutes on the CD-R and sure enough it worked!
SWEET! Appreciate all that helped and to VideoNowDude and the great person that sent me a message. I did notice that the 144x80 actually is a touch small for the screen and compared to the size of the default movies made for the player. Not sure if they can go any larger or not. But it works and that is the main thing, but might play with that later too. Now my next stunt moves onto trying to mod the players so that I don't have to trim the CD's! These are VDN Jr.s so should be fun! Also would like to learn how to make my own opening track but that isn't a requirement. Again thanks for all that have put out effort to this project. It is going to make my kids very happy that we can put our own shows that so far aren't out from VideoNow currently. | ||||
| solfra posted 2005 Mar 17 10:31 | ||||
| VideoNowDude, I DID IT!!!!!!!! Wow man it´s perfect and incredible and I wanted to thank you very much for this.
I made a CD two days ago and it worked flawlessly. The film was 25 min. and I cut the CD with scissors and with the handling it peeled of a little, I think I will put a CD label when I make 30 min. discs. The thing I don`t remember and it`s not clear in the help page is if I have to also burn the VDN Audio.wav or not. I can`t remember if I burned it or not the other day. Another question: what if you have an AVI with VBR audio. Do you have to convert the audio first to CBR or can we do it the same ? Thanks. F. | ||||
| cflynt posted 2005 Mar 17 11:02 | ||||
| The VDN Audio.wav is definately not needed, that is just something you needed to extract to create the video/wav combo files. I dunno on the 2nd question, I would guess it requires some sort of conversion first before doing it. | ||||
| solfra posted 2005 Mar 17 11:14 | ||||
| Thanks for the reply.
F. | ||||
| VideonowDude posted 2005 Mar 17 15:27 | ||||
| There does seem to be a minimum content requirement, not sure exactly what but around 20 mins somewhere (20 mins VDN time, 40 mins CD Audio time).
I believe this is so the security check can find data on the tracks just past the limit of a 3" disc. If you boot a 3" disc containing all the right data, you can watch it seek past the disc edge and do this check. I'll have to burn a few coasters to determine the exact minimum. And No, you should not burn the Audio file to the disc, it is only used to merge the audio into the video at conversion time. | ||||
| chess_883 posted 2005 Mar 17 18:52 | ||||
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| chess_883 posted 2005 Mar 17 19:00 | ||||
| sorry guys, i'm having problems uploading the file, the limit is 2mb, but the folder is 1.36mb, weird, the "CANNOT FIND PAGE" page appears, but replies fine without the attachment! Weird huh? | ||||
| chess_883 posted 2005 Mar 17 19:02 | ||||
| here are the files that might help you! Straight from the disc! | ||||
| flybyu posted 2005 Mar 17 19:21 | ||||
| Ok, i have managed to get somewhere now.
Thanks chess_883 and VideoDudeNow! I was burning a cd-r with only 24 minutes of content in Nero. As VideoDudeNow said it must be over 40 minutes to work and that is right, I increased to 45 minutes and it will play now! The only problem I have now is the audio is out of sequence with the video on the screen, not sure why. Must have been the format for audio i used. Will just have to work that out and try again. For ripping the DVD I used ImToo DVD Ripper and with the video setting to AVI output, MP3 audio, and Cinepak Codec by Radius? Sould I make my audio "Store to Wave"? Thanks again everyone. fly | ||||
| cflynt posted 2005 Mar 17 23:01 | ||||
| Well modded a player and burned yet another CD but this time didn't cut the CD, and it plays but same prob I was having with the cut CD that I assumed was a film issue, but now that it isn't cut I dunno. But on playback everything is kinda garbled at times. Audio is too and video also. Any ideas on what I might have done wrong? | ||||
| reddog83 posted 2005 Mar 18 00:08 | ||||
| thank you all for developing this great method!
I have created a few VDN disks so far from my DVR as a source. One thing I have noticed is the audio seems alot quieter than the standard disk? Is there anything i can do to the audio track to boost volume? thanks in advance for your help. | ||||
| NobodyInParticular posted 2005 Mar 18 09:03 | ||||
| I too am pleased to *finally* report SUCCESS! For all my previous testing I was trying a simple 2 minute video clip and could not figure out for the life of me what I was doing wrong because I followed the VideoNowTogo directions to a T. Once I tried burning a longer video (33 minutes total in .wav time) it worked!
The bad news is I'm having troubles cutting the CD-R down. I had to keep shaving off little corners here and there until it would spin freely all the way around. Once I finally got that, I added a label to avoid extra peeling. But then I had to cut the label and subsequently the CD-R some more, now the disk no longer works. Apparantly, I trimmed too much off. Argh! Does anybody have ideas for where I could take a box of CD-R's to and have them professionally cut down to 108mm without ruining the film on the bottom, like my cutting has been doing? Or, is there any hope at all that mini CD-R's can be made to work. Note: I have a Video Now Color and not a Video Now Jr. So, it doesn't look like modding the player would work for me because a full-size CD-R would still stick out the sides. VideoNowTogo's screenshots look like a Video Now Jr (or, at least, not like my VideoNow Color player). Video Now Color players must be slightly thinner than Video Now Jr players? | ||||
| chess_883 posted 2005 Mar 19 00:49 | ||||
| Hey, I think I know what the blank track is for! I have thought about why there is a minimum play time for the discs, I thiink it is because the player is programmed to play over the minimum time, this is why the discs have blanck tracks at the end. I tried making a disc that was only 4 minutes, I loaded a previusly recorded blank track using Sound Recorder, went to EFFECTS>DECREASE SPEED many, many times, like up to the point where the blank track was 25 min. Then I recorded the discs like usual, and it worked! I also own 2 VideoNow Color Music Video discs, and their blank tracks are much more bigger than the 4 sec. blank track on an original disc. The trak is just used for the player to think that it is a real VideoNow File, so it'll keep playing. So whan the lens checks for the disc size to be videonow size, it also checks for any written files. | ||||
| flybyu posted 2005 Mar 19 19:53 | ||||
Good work chess_883! I managed to get mine to work and the audio is in sync also now. Anyone know what the max video time is on the VideoNow player? Are we looking about 35 min on a cd-r in VideoNow time or about 70 min in Nero? I applied a label on one of the cd-rs and then cut around the outside to allow it to work in the unit. I found that if you do not use very sharp cutting scissors that the disk can actually form little cracks around the outside. I also noticed that if you then peel off the label it will pull the silver inner coating right off the cdr. Since this I have use a label on the cd-r and then mark with a original disk and then use a belt sander while holding the disk by the center vertically and rotate it around and remove the needed material. With a little practice you can actually make the disk look very good, better then the cutting method. Also the sanding method melts the outside edge a bit, so the silver coating will not flake off now. My kid loves SpongeBob now and the Simpsons on the unit, i as its so cheap dont have to worry about him breaking or trashing it. Anyways this has been so fun fooling around with, and i got my unit at ToyRus for 50.00 Canadian. I have now picked up a Zvue to play with now, the screen looks a little better resolution and no more disk sanding, just flash the SDcard. The units like FlashTrax, iRiver are better and have built in HD but are a hell of alot more expensive, will wait a while for one of those. fly | ||||
| skelex posted 2005 Mar 22 20:35 | ||||
| If anyone is interested, someone is selling homemade custom cut discs on ebay. 10 for $20.00 +s&h.
item #5964759148 | ||||
| fun2live4 posted 2005 Mar 22 23:02 | ||||
| I just had a cheap idea to solve the peeling of the reflective top layer. I too used some scissors to cut my VDNTG CD, MUCH THANKS TO VIDEONOWDUDE, and the rim is starting to peel.
I was thinking of using finger nail polish. Just apply around the edges to hold the top layer. What do you think? I'm going to go get a bottle but I couldn't wait to share the idea and get some feedback. I hope they don't think I'm gay buying finger nail polish at this time of the night. Not that there is anything wrong with that!! Hmmm... what color should I buy!! :) Be right back!! F2L4 | ||||
| flybyu posted 2005 Mar 25 07:36 | ||||
| Well it looks like you can cut the cdr down, there are several companies
that will do it for you, just need to buy 1000+ to make it affordable. I also think that you could use a lathe and a mandral or hub to attach the cdr to with the center hub, using a wooden backplate then you could then part off the section you dont want. Also you could try a hotknife method or hotwire to cut and melt through the material, it might seal the outer edge and stop the peeling also. | ||||
| GregSmith posted 2005 Mar 26 19:05 | ||||
| I Know This is off topic...
I just created a site for video biographers. it's at http://videon.us . I've included a documentary about a year on the DEW Line in 1964 and an OnStar spoof I did on a lark. Check it out! Greg | ||||
| chess_883 posted 2005 Mar 27 13:14 | ||||
| I have just created a working black and white video disc for the VideoNow Color Player. It works great. I have a question, or comment (whatever you want to call it): When the player reads the first track of a self booting disc, the track determines what mode the player will play in, if I am incorrect PLEASE tell me so, for example, the VideoNow Color Start track had to be 107 frames right?, so when the player has read the data, it knows to spin the disc 2x as fast, and when you put in a black and white disc, it must have a certain amount of frames that makes the player play the disc at 1x speed. VideoNowDude, can you help me if you are interested in making your VideoNow Color Discs 2x longer, or any body else? I would really appreciate your help! Thanks! | ||||
| VideonowDude posted 2005 Mar 28 01:52 | ||||
| I believe the first track does determine how the player treats the disc, yes. I don't have any b/w discs, looks like I need to get myself one and have a look. Interesting idea chess_883.
I thought there were references an "extended" colour format, but I seem to have been delusional, I can't find any now. I suppose I could burn 106 CD-Rs, each with a different # of frames to see which boot... | ||||
| teknow posted 2005 Mar 28 20:23 | ||||
| I recently modded the videonow color to accept the full size cd's.
Some things I wanted to make obvious in case anyone else is foggy: you may use multiple videos (multiple processing sessions with virtual dub), simply numbering the VDN Track 01.wav to VDN Track 02.wav, making way for the new one in the same folder which of course will default to VDN Track 01.wav. I was unware of that and was scowering the net to find a program to merge two avi's having different audio rates (or whatever the error was with them). Modding the VideoNow Color, requires significantly bigger cuts to the plastic, much less aesthetically pleasing, not that the kid cares... of course the first thing mom said was... oughh ugly. My main questions come to the pixilation in comparison to the original disks, which are by no means great. Is the pixilation just a current limitation (I'm not complaining, I just don't want to miss out on the free cheese; There is free chese right? Second, is there a way to increase the volume of the wavs produced by virtual dub. Again in comparison to original discs it is noticeably lower. In addition there is a loud whining noise... wondering if i'm doing anything wrong or is this something everyone is experiencing? Thanks alot videonowdude, been alot of fun, and my family appreciates your work :D **** important, make sure when you are firing up your dremel to cut away at that plastic that you are in a well ventilated area and take breaks often. I had the nastiest of headaches from the fumes cutting/burning plastic creates | ||||
| chess_883 posted 2005 Mar 28 22:07 | ||||
| On the VideoNow Color manual, it said that there are indeed "extended" discs, and that the fast forward and rewind buttons will skip 2x faster. I'll check in on that. | ||||
| thylacine222 posted 2005 Mar 29 07:35 | ||||
| I've decided to try changing a DVD into a VNCD. In fact, right now, I'm converting the first 30 minutes of it to VNCD form. Except, I don't have a VNC. I'm planning to get one, but I would just like to see if alll of my hard work has payed off. Could I send a sample .wav file to someone to see if it would work? If this actually works, I suppose I could write some sort of tutorial to do this. | ||||
| skelex posted 2005 Mar 29 12:14 | ||||
| Hasbro has released the feature length film, Agent Cody Banks for videonow color. It is on four 25min discs so maybe they haven't figured out how to get the extended format to work. | ||||
| reddog83 posted 2005 Mar 30 10:59 | ||||
New auction #5965828980 Better price. | ||||
| teknow posted 2005 Mar 30 21:59 | ||||
| That price is outrageous, Imagine buying those on a regular basis, much more cost effective to mod your player.
The new one is still 15 for 10 disks, that's horrible Are you by any chance the person listing them? | ||||
| reddog83 posted 2005 Mar 30 23:27 | ||||
The price is set because of the yield rate for disks that do not peel at the edge or have imperfections. Not everybody wants the trouble to mod their kids player and have the spinning disk stick out -or- cut their own disks and have them peel. Still cheaper than buying OEM disks from Hasbro ($168.00 for 10). What price is not "outrageous"? | ||||
| teknow posted 2005 Mar 31 00:01 | ||||
| I'd be happy to do player mods on Vid color or JR. I've already done both. And I'm not sure why Videonowdude cut his JR's sides unless my model is newer, because it wasn't necessary on my jr (the far better constructed player.) IMO
Admitedly the disc sticking out is a turn off, but it's worth not having to buy such expensive disks. If the yield is so low that it requires the price, then some revision to technique of cutting is necessary, not only for the consumers well being, but the integrity of the seller. I've hear several people here having wild success cutting, and not having problems. One such poster talked of using nail polish on the edges to hold the peel at its current state. We all know that no one in their right mind or with an average income is going to shell 168 for 10 disks, at that point your better off buying all videos put out by hasbro. My son has the Vid color with disc protruding... point is it functions and new media costs a as little as 14 cents not 1.50 a piece. Shop4tech http://www.shop4tech.com/z/CD_R_RW_Media/1_91 I mean come on that's aprox. 107% increase in price. It's certainly worth the time to do the work or find someone else who you feel with comfortable doing it. He'll be getting the jr I bought and modded today in 20 minutes when he gets back (modded for full size w/no external markings/cuts. I suppose if you don't have the ability, courage (to rip into your player, then it's a good deal. I just didn't have the understanding that there was such a high failure rate. Still I'm glad I'll never have to try cutting a circular object; that would be disasterous. Seriously.. to anyone from these forums I'd be happy to mod their player for 10 dollars plus shipping for return. So it wouldn't be more than 15 likely in the contiguous states. **off topic, in the junior the volume is very noticeably decreased as a result of the extra disc size covering a significant part of the speaker. I'm intending to create some acceptable looking holes in addition to the existing ones to improve the volume. ** Walmart has lowered color JR's to 50 dollars making them the cheapest seller of NIP Vidnow products | ||||
| GregSmith posted 2005 Mar 31 04:37 | ||||
| I think $15/10 is reasonable. If you take into consideration that it probably takes an hour to produce 10 discs, then you are paying a modest price for the service. Especially if it is something you cannot do yourself. Blank DVD's are about $1/ea so $1.50 for VNCD (which are not in mass production, so economies of scale are not possible) is quite fair.
Also, remember, that in a capitalist system it is the market that determines price. If you think it's too much to pay, simply starve the producer by not buying. That will drive the price down. | ||||
| teknow posted 2005 Mar 31 11:01 | ||||
| wohh wohh, I never buy dvd for more than 40 cents a piece, again refer to shop4tech website. .40 gets you name brands as well.
Recently I was in Office Max and got 50 sony DVD-R 4x for 20 bucks. When you can find that price at retail for a major brand it should give an indication of the direction prices will follow. Granted that was with rebate; but shop4tech has free shipping on .32 cent DVD-Rs on 50 packs. So that's $16 for 50 to your door. It was a freak of nature for Office Max to have that deal, so I guess Shop4tech won't be seeing for quite a while. | ||||
| thylacine222 posted 2005 Apr 06 22:00 | ||||
| One site I found said that a good way to cut CDs are to use a hair dryer on the cd first then use Utility scissors. I suppose I'll try that tomorrow and report back. | ||||
| thylacine222 posted 2005 Apr 07 16:28 | ||||
| OK, that didn't work. I tried to do the thing with the hairdryer, and it didn't work. Maybe I need to put it on for longer. There was less flaking than normal, but there was still flaking, which eventually got worse. I'm going to go try drying it for 2 minutes. | ||||
| VideonowDude posted 2005 Apr 07 23:03 | ||||
| Update on black & white discs: a basic test shows that at least 70 minutes of black & white will fit on a modded Color player (ie twice the time capacity of the Color discs), so an unmodded player should be able to get 58 mins of lower resolution, mono video on a 108mm disc.
If there is sufficient interest I could investigate adding a Mono option to VideoNowToGo, although tools already exist to make mono discs as I understand it so I'd be reinventing the wheel somewhat. | ||||
| EwanG posted 2005 Apr 08 12:35 | ||||
| To be honest, I'd be much more interested in finding a reliable source of 108mm disks than at being able to play longer shows at this point.
While the current program seems to work (and a big THANKS again from myself and my handicapped daughter), the fact that I'm not much of a hardware person means that she has so far gotten very little additional material. If only this "job thing" wouldn't take so much time away from my hobbies :-) FWIW... | ||||
| teknow posted 2005 Apr 10 10:37 | ||||
| why don't you send your player out to one of the members here for modification? I'll do it for YOU free minus shipping costs, in light of your situation.
I can provide online references if you would like. The moment the mod becomes unfun is the moment to try something else. | ||||
| EwanG posted 2005 Apr 10 10:58 | ||||
As I understand the mod, the disc then sticks somewhat out of the player, and I know my daughter well enough to know that would become an overwhelming temptation - which would likely ruin the disk or player, or possibly hurt her (not knowing whether touching one of those disks spinning at speed would do to your hand). Unless I misunderstand how the mod works? | ||||
| teknow posted 2005 Apr 10 11:17 | ||||
As referenced in the quote from one of my previous posts: I'm unsure as to why videonowdude had to cut the sides of his jr. I've done the mod on two of my jr's and there is no need for this. Your daughter will not see any difference. No sharp edges, rough surfaces, or disk will come into contact with her. *I believe he did this as a precaution (he believed the sides would interfere) so he would not have to open it up and cut again; when in fact it wasn't required, he just never realized it wasn't needed, so that part remains in the mod tutorial he provided. ** On the Videonow Color (not junior) it is required to cut the sides (quite a bit), but again this is not the case with the JR ***PM me for an Instant Message screen name if you would like to discuss this further | ||||
| VideonowDude posted 2005 Apr 10 22:23 | ||||
| There seems to be some confusion over my Jr. mods: the disc does not stick out of the case, I did not cut the side of the case. The markup on the bitmap must be misleading, I'll fix it if I ever need to rev the docs. | ||||
| chess_883 posted 2005 Apr 10 23:38 | ||||
| videonowdude, i want to try to convert a color video with the black and white software, I don't know what it'll come out like, but i'm expecting details that will help. Oh, can you explain the 58 min. mono format thing, i didn't understand, have you tried it? | ||||
| VideonowDude posted 2005 Apr 11 08:50 | ||||
| chess_883, all I did was a crude test: I took a commercial B/W disc and used Nero to copy it to an audio CD, duplicating the tracks to get to 70 mins total (on a full-size disc). I then verified the Color player could play all the tracks.
As b/w discs run at 1x, and Color discs at 2x, this shows that a cut down b/w disc should get 58 mins on a Color player. | ||||
| chess_883 posted 2005 May 05 14:30 | ||||
| Any Updates? Just Wondering! | ||||
| dmcbudman posted 2005 May 12 11:05 | ||||
| dude
everyone thanks i took 4 discs before i got it right i ended up haveing to rip my own first and last tracks i first burned the snorks for my daughter 30min family guy, home on the range(2discs), malcom in the middle smurfs, simpsons & ducktales the movie i cut the case up on the full size so the disc is hanging out but hey i cant complain you guys are great now i just need to figure out how to cover up the spinning disc i didnt see anyone post about how to fix the low sound issue before you rip the wave up the volume to about 300-350 (audio tab under "conversion...") once again may i say you the greatest | ||||
| ayeyen posted 2005 May 13 06:57 | ||||
| Hey! I'm ayeyen and I'm gonna try to help out wherever possible because I think this is a great thing!
Anyhow, can someone PM/email me to get me caught up on your developments? Thanks much! (And VideonowDude, you're still the greatest) | ||||
| GregSmith posted 2005 May 13 12:31 | ||||
| Hey everyone...
I just won a Videographer's Award for my work transferring slides to video. See the results at http://videon.us Continued good luck with the VideoNow and VideoThen software. Greg | ||||
| EwanG posted 2005 May 16 08:49 | ||||
| Some things I'd like to understand better...
First, I managed to create my first disk last night. Took two attempts as the first time the volume was way too low. Since then I've made sure to do an 800% volume boost when I create the WAV file. I seem to have to do this with all my videos - which is a bit strange since they come from different sources. Is there some obvious prep trick I'm missing, or is this a known issue? Second, I'm very confused at how they get a "full" Sesame Street episode on a disk. The ones my daughter owns seem to drop the Elmo's World portion, but otherwise seem to indeed have a complete episode. But that still would leave over 40 minutes of video - and my understanding from the instructions are that you are pushing your luck if you go past even 30 minutes. Again, something I've misread or misunderstood? Finally, just a thanks again to everyone here for a great tool and some great discussions! | ||||
| EwanG posted 2005 May 16 08:57 | ||||
| Seperate post because this is a rather different issue and will probably get answered differently :-)
When I cut down my CD-Rs, even with a label on, there is some wrinkling of the reflective material that occurs at the margin. I have also noticed a tendancy to get video noise in the title and first track, which makes me wonder if the disk is burnt from the outside in, or the inside out. I had always assumed the latter, but my experience so far has me wondering. On a related note, what exactly does the reflective layer do? You aren't burning the data into the reflective layer are you? It's just designed to make sure the player reads the burned pits, right? If so, would you be better off to remove the reflective layer after the burn entirely, cut the disk down, and then apply something reflective back onto the smaller disk (thereby removing the mess at the edges)? Thanks again, Ewan | ||||
| nerys posted 2005 May 17 14:03 | ||||
| what is the limit ? is there anyway to get a video now player to play a color video 43-46 minutes long ? (enough for a normal television program)
Chris Taylor http://www.nerys.com/ | ||||
| EwanG posted 2005 May 17 17:03 | ||||
| OK, I finally broke down and did the "Dremel" thing to my daughter's VideoNow Jr. The disc loaded probe was a bit of fun, particularly since I didn't like the idea of soldering the switch. What I did instead was to unbend a key holder (one of those small wire circles) and slip it through the arm of the lever that gets depressed, and then bend the remaining wire to anchor it on the bottom screw. This works nicely and doesn't involve messing things up too much.
However, even burning to a full-sized disk that doesn't get cut down, I'm still seeing some significant video "noise" during playback. I'm wondering if it's the FujiFilm CD-Rs or something else. Generally it isn't a constant problem but rather like static that comes and goes. I notice it's more prominent if I move the player while it's going, which makes me wonder if it's an inherent problem of the larger disk. Any ideas? | ||||
| EwanG posted 2005 May 17 20:01 | ||||
| Why ask if I'm going to just go home and try it anyway, right?
As it turns out, it makes a HUGE difference using Sony CD-Rs versus FujiFilm CD-Rs. The Fuji's have more of a greenish cast that looks a bit like a CD-RW whereas the Sony's look nice and silvery just like the PVDs from Hasbro/Playskool. Daughter was quite (!!!) happy to finally get a new disk. Particularly since we had bought every VN Jr. title our store carried and several of the VN cartoons. Of course, it seems to me that Hasbro is missing out on a pretty big aftermarket. Even if I could buy all the Sesame Street episodes on PVD, I'd still want to have the ability to do what I did today - tape her sister's birthday, burn it to a CD, and let her watch it again and again. FWIW, Ewan | ||||
| dmcbudman posted 2005 May 18 08:13 | ||||
| we have the full sized one not JR
and have no trouble with 35 minutes so i added more it crapped out at like 37-38 minutes if i remember ill check the total time to be sure and ill post my findings | ||||
| teknow posted 2005 May 19 20:15 | ||||
actually it's kind of deceiving with the rubber around the jr. but the screens are the same size... I checked. The Jr. is much sturdier and doesn't require cutting the sides out having the disc stick out, which makes it the winner for me. *** use a mask when dremeling... the fumes can cause some massive headaches. | ||||
| VideonowDude posted 2005 May 26 00:19 | ||||
| Noise on playback
I too have been having noise problems on playback (picture & sound losing it) and thought it was because my modded player had dust in it. I tok the thing apart (again) and thoroughly cleaned it, but it didnt make any difference. Then I read the recent posts: check the media! My original work was done with Sony CD-Rs with good results. I finally ran out after making a good number of coasters while developing the software, so I switched to Nashua CD-Rs, and in retrospect I think that's when things got much worse. More recently I have been using Memorex CD-Rs, and I still had the problem. However, most recently I bought a pack of TDK Music CD-Rs, and they appear to kick ass in the noise dept: almost no noise at all now. Even when cut down to size. YMMV of course... | ||||
| trevlac posted 2005 May 31 09:46 | ||||
| @VideoNowDude,
Any chance you'll share the code? You probably posted enough info ... but the devil is always in the details. :) I've made a few disc with your filter and I think this is very cool. I have 2 little ones and each now has a VideoNow. Thanks for your efforts. :) ----------------------- Now on to some improvements ...
----------------------- As to why videoNow Jr. vs a $99 DVD player + Battery life is much better on the videoNow Jr. + Device is lighter + Harder to break the videoNow Jr. + Much easier to use the videoNow Jr. + It's fun for Dad :) | ||||
| VideonowDude posted 2005 Jun 05 00:27 | ||||
| Just figured out how to convert faster than realtime: on my 4 yr old PC I can convert at 7x realtime speed. Here's how:
Get ready as usual. Then right before clicking Output Playback set these menu items: Options: Display input video: off Dsplay output video: off Sync to audio: off Audio: No Audio Then click Output Playback. I might have to tune my code to be performant now! If I had the time... | ||||
| trevlac posted 2005 Jun 07 12:12 | ||||
I know what you mean. Small kids and time at home do not go together. BTW: Good work-around for the faster encode. ---------- I got some time to play with this over lunch :) I would really like to have an encoder that is command line and works with avisynth. That way you can do all the up front work in AVS and do a bunch of encodes controled by a batch file. Step # 1 is a decoder to make sure I have the bitmap working correctly. I made a virtualDub filter that does the video decode. Really a bit of a hack. It requires a video as input to Vdub to produce frames. Then it lets you open a VideoNow.wav file and shows the images. Since Avery did all the video display work ... it didn't take too much. I give 2 options: 216x160 and 144x80. The 1st is to try to mimic the videoNow screen. I don't think I have the color matrix correct yet. I could only test with VideoNowDude's intro. Once I get the colors correct, I'll work on the batch encoder. I'll post all my code here. Thanks again for all the hard work on the specs! http://www.trevlac.us/vidNowDec.zip - Source included. | ||||
| trevlac posted 2005 Jun 08 12:31 | ||||
| Wow! My colours were really off. Anyway .. I think I've fixed it. One question on the colours ....
Is the 1st 'pixel' made from R0,G0,B1 or from R0,G1,B1 with 0 or 1 being the line number. I'm doing the former and it seems to work for me, but this sceme leves an unused G1 at the begining of each set, and a missing one at the end. My filter is still at the link above. Source is included. Anyway ... here are some sample pics I decoded with the vdub filter. 
[edit] Ok i was goofing off and I figured out the other nibble order so I don't have any 'wasted' ones. See the example attached. The logo is much sharper, but I'm not sure if the other source is better. The saturation is certainly lower on the 'proper' order. I'll have to do some more tests / compares.  | ||||
| trevlac posted 2005 Jun 09 13:49 | ||||
| Finally ... I think I have the Decoder working :)
No sound ... and you have to load a dummy file into Vdub with at least as many frames to see the full clip. But the images look pretty good. I also have a 216x160 option which is intended to simulate what you see on the VideoNow LCD. Actually the LCD looks much better than my simulation. :) I also added a contrast knob and tell you the file frame count / time. Below are some samples I pulled from various "wav" files. The center one is the LCD simulation. 
On to the batch encoder ... or maybe a stand alone decoder ... or maybe :) | ||||
| trevlac posted 2005 Jun 13 08:22 | ||||
| I just love talking to myself .... :D
Anyway ... I wrote a batch encoder. Very much in the test stage so you might have problems ... which I'd be happy to fix :) http://www.trevlac.us/vidNowEnc.zip ----------------------------------------- The encoder is command line. So you need to do something like: c:\videoNowEnc.exe myInput.avs 1080 - 1st parameter is a movie file with 144x80 24bit RGB, 17640 8 bit stereo - 2nd (not required) is the # of frames per output track <chapter splits>. 1080/18fps = 1 minute I've tested with frameserved video from VDub and with Avisynth input. I included my avs script in the zip. Source is also included :) ------------------------------ The goal of all this was batch encoding with little to no manual steps. Running with avs input, you could setup a .bat and do this with drag and drop. If anyone is interested, I'll make it more clear. I was thinking of adding the abitlity to process an entire directory of AVI files. Input would be the Dir & a template AVS script. Output would be a bunch of directories with the VDNxx.WAV files. | ||||
| EwanG posted 2005 Jun 13 08:40 | ||||
Just so you don't get to feeling lonely... :D Sounds like an interesting project. For myself, I am too much of a control freak to let the program just pick break points based on number of frames. Of course I'm also fairly likely to put a couple AVIs together (multiple short clips of the family in action) to be able to easily drag and drop a directory and expect the program to know which ones I want on a particular disk. At this point I'd be more inclined (personally) to try and find ways to get more content onto a single disk. But with Disney coming out with some non-folding DVD players this year, I suspect it's more likely we'll be going with one of those later this year than for me to continue using the VideoNow Jr. Unless it turns out that the Disney units aren't very robust. Just my .02 worth... | ||||
| maxedroom posted 2005 Jun 13 09:28 | ||||
Nice to see a little more action around here. I finally wrote my own frame dumper/decoder. It ouputs files in a manner that simulates the LCD screen with the pixels staggered. The output is 433x320, so two pixels per actual pixel with one on either the left or right of a row of pixels to stagger it. The images look better this way without all the vertical lines running through. I'm now going to work on a stand alone encoder that uses a 216x160 input file. Below is a sample of the image I was able to get from the program.
If anyone wants the source code or a video file that I made from the dumped frames, just let me know and I'll post it. | ||||
| trevlac posted 2005 Jun 13 12:03 | ||||
| @EwanG
Thanks for the reply. I was just trying to suplement vDude's encoder. I grab loads of shows from my Satalite Recorder. I wanted a quick and easy way to put a bunch on disc for a trip. I know what you mean about control :) vDude's encoder is great. But I wanted to try different resolutions and methods of pixel placement to see if they **maybe** improved the picture. Probably not worth the effort ... but once interested, it's sometimes hard to stop thinking about the problem. My kids are 3 & 5. I'm not sure they are ready for a DVD player. But with the price of players, I can't imagine VideoNow is going to last for the older crowd. @Max Great idea in the simulation. I changed mine to match yours. I've also been thinking about encodes using higher than 144x80 resolution. Since most source frames are more than large enough, one could match the pixel placement to the LCD ... after a blur. I was thinking 432x160 would be the proper resolution. Then you would skip every other input pixel across the width, skiping the 1st on the 1st line, keeping the 1st on the 2nd line .... ect. This should pull the pixels as they match the placement on the LCD.
Frankly ... I'm not sure it matters too much ... but I'm interested in playing around with it. One should do a blur 1st. Or you could take the average values of an xRx combo to get the blurred R. Or maybe a bilinear resize to get to 432x160 is good enough. [edit] I forgot my simulation picture :) Maybe it's too dark still?  | ||||
| trevlac posted 2005 Jun 13 20:05 | ||||
| @Max
432x160 is definately the way to go! Check out my example below. I started with 720x480 source. 1st pic is the source bilinear resized to 432x320 for comparison. 2nd pic is source resized to 144x80, Encoded, pulled back out at 433x320 3rd pic is source resized to 432x160, Encoded, pulled back out at 433x320 It looks better on the LCD. I changed my encoder to take 432x160 as input. 
I was bugged by how the simulated image was too dark. I played with adding the luma from the 'other' pixels back in. IE for red, add luma from g&b back to red. For green, add luma from b&r. It seems about right using 1/2 the luma. Not sure why. This image does look closer to what you see on the lcd ... especially if you sit back about 5 feet. :) Another thing I noticed was that the LCD image is taller as far as aspect ratio goes.  | ||||
| trevlac posted 2005 Jun 14 06:57 | ||||
| @Max
BTW: I'd love to see your source. I'm quite the novice programmer. But I've been hacking at this video stuff for some time. Not too long ago, I learned one way to read avi files. But I certainlly don't know more than some basics. @All Just some notes on modding the player. I found (following vDude's instructions) that after removing the screws from the bottom inside cover, I could also slide the ribbon cable out of the connector. This allowed me to completely remove the bottome inside cover. Much easier to work that way, away from the electronics. I just did some whittling with a razor blade knife. I also found that a hot soldering iron did a real quick job on the larger parts. Then I cleaned up the melted spots with the knife. Finally, for the "saftey switch" I put a drop of super glue on the top and pressed in the switch. It didn't come back up. :) | ||||
| maxedroom posted 2005 Jun 15 09:15 | ||||
| Is there a minimum size for a video? For example, say you have a disk that is cut to size, but you only put about 5 minutes of video on it. Will it pass the disk size test and will the video play? I ask because I want to try something that might allow the use of a standard mini-cdr. If all the read head is doing is moving to a specific spot and trying to read anything, even a blank, unrecorded part of a disk, then I wonder if you could cut a disk down to VideoNow size, cut a hole in it just slightly larger than a mini-cdr and then put some sort of thin rubber on the inside. Then, you could just insert the mini-cdr into the cut cdr and use it to "extend" the size of the mini-cdr. I just don't want to maim my player and cutting disks is tedious. | ||||
| VideonowDude posted 2005 Jun 17 00:13 | ||||
| Yes, there is a minimum size as the player checks for a particular track to make sure you are not using 3" CD-Rs. It is somewhere around the 20 minute mark I think, though I have not done exhaustive (coaster-generating) tests to find the exact point. 22 mins is the shortest usable disc I have personally created. (That's 44 mins in Nero-time).
Your idea is interesting, so long as you have a readable track at the right point, it shouldnt matter if its the inner CD-R or your outer wrapper disc. Good luck! | ||||
| trevlac posted 2005 Jun 17 07:03 | ||||
| Has anyone played with Gamma or color correction?
No doubt the LCD does not display like a CRT. Can an image be tuned to the LCD? Does it make a difference? Hello? :( | ||||
| VideonowDude posted 2005 Jun 17 23:32 | ||||
| trevlac, I haven't done any work on that. To be honest I burn cartoons, and my customer is under 3 yrs old, so picture quality hasn't been a priority for me. What kind of things are you burning that shows up the lack of advanced processing in my converter? (Well any processing really :oops: ) | ||||
| trevlac posted 2005 Jun 20 07:58 | ||||
| @videoNowDude,
The only thing I would suggest is to use 432x160 as input instead of 144x80. Take the R,G,or B from every other pixel. Skipping the 1st pixel on the 0 and subsequent 'even' lines. This should make the image pixels line up with their corresponding R,G,or B LCD element in the 216x160 array. This makes an appreciable difference. See my GoBots pictures above. :D --------------- As far as color correction and gamma and such ... I just do this with Avisynth before I feed the video to the encoder. You could do the same thing with virtualdub filters. I don't think the encoder needs to do any real processing. Other free tools already do that job. I've been doing some Power Ranges shows for my 5yr old. If I up the saturation by 50% and adjust the gamma by 1.5 ... the picture really pops on the display. This doesn't work as well for the cartoons I've done for my 3yr old. I'm a bit of a video nut and I've really had fun fooling with this toy. Normally, you can't really tune an image to a screen. But in this case you can try. :) ----------------- On a different note ... I noticed that my local Target store is selling the vNow Color units for $25. They also have the Disney DVD players for $140. They look 'heavy duty'. I of course wondered about the image quality of their 3.5" screen ... ;) | ||||
| trevlac posted 2005 Jun 22 14:22 | ||||
| It was too much of a temptation .... $24.95 for the regular color unit.
So I got one. The mod is much more difficult than the Jr. unit. You need to cut out a good portion of the lid to get a regular CD-R to fit. This exposes the edges of the spinning disc. The latch is also a problem. You could probably fashion some plastic over the exposed spots, and make a new latch. But I wanted to point out that the Jr. mod is really easy vs the regular color unit. But of course the Jr. costs about $50. | ||||
| maxedroom posted 2005 Jun 23 09:15 | ||||
| Thanks for the price alert. I got one myself the other night. Yes, the temptation was too great, however now I can experiment all i want without ruining my daughters Jr. :) | ||||
| maxedroom posted 2005 Jun 23 12:44 | ||||
| @trevlac
Is the executable in the zip posted at: http://www.trevlac.us/vidNowEnc.zip the 432 version or the 144? I can't compile the source, I guess I'm missing the vfw stuff. | ||||
| trevlac posted 2005 Jun 23 14:07 | ||||
| I complie with normal VC5 and/or VC6 I added under the link tab, "object/library modules" the library vfw32.lib.
I updated the zip file with a recent compile and some of the VC6 project files. But to be honest ... I havn't been tracking source too closely :oops: Let me know if it does not work, and I'll make sure the zip has a working latest copy tonight. I'm using the following type of Avisynth script to feed the encoder:
I also add things like Normalize(),Amplifydb(3) to increase the audio volume .... and .... Tweak(sat=1.5), Levels(...) to juice up the picture. ------------------ BTW: I messed up the mod I tried on the regular color player. I nicked the lcd connector ribon. It doesn't look worth the effort to try to fix. :( Plus ... you have to cut away too much of the case to get a full sized cd to spin ... for more than just a test unit. I think I'll stick with the juniors. | ||||
| Sooperfly posted 2005 Jun 23 18:23 | ||||
| I have the cds you need. exactly 108 millimeters. I have used them myself. Just let me know what brands are good and i can cut them for you with a precision laser cutter. Prices are brand dependant but were looking somewhere in the neighborhood of 70 dollars per 100 discs. If anyone is interested let me know and i'll make arrangements on ebay so you guys can see them for yourselves.
PS...cds without labels burn best so if anyone is familiar with a good cd without labels lemme know | ||||
| VideonowDude posted 2005 Jun 26 01:02 | ||||
| Wow Sooperfly, that would be awesome!
For me, I have the best results with "TDK Music CD-Rs for audio recording(700MB)". These produce less annoying noise than any other brand I have tried. Bizarrely "TDK CD-Rs for computer burning 52x" are terrible. In my experience Audio CD-Rs work better than data CD-Rs. Out of desperation to get more reliable (less noisy) burns I burn at the slowest rate my drive permits (4x). The worst I have tried (apart from the TDKs above) are "Memorex CD-R 52x". Note I dont cut the discs: I have a modded player. Cutting the discs can introduce extra noise. | ||||
| trevlac posted 2005 Jun 27 08:48 | ||||
| The jr. unit has a piece of clear plastic over the channel the lazer rides in. The regular unit does not. I noticed that when I removed the plastic, I had fewer problems playing discs. Of course the plastic protects the unit ... so it's a risk that 'stuff' might get inside. But like I said ... the regular unit does not have this protection. So it's not vital.
---------------- On another note .... I was playing with changing the frame rate. I have made some working samples at 15fps. To do this you need to: 1) Change to 15fps vs 18. 2) Resample your audio to 17640 * 15 / 18 = 14700. 3) Timestretch your audio slower to 83.33% aka 15/18. The last step is to lower the pitch of the audio. Because the player will play it back faster than it should be played and hence raise the pitch. AKA mickey mouse voices. I've done this with Avisynth filters, but you could probably also do it with VirtualDub. Bottom Line ? You can fit 48min of video on a full sized CD-R. | ||||
| kyla |