Forum archive - VCD shrink ??

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VCD shrink ??

Guest posted 2009 May 25 11:22

Hey!!! Like DVD shrink , the very useful and famous software.. is there any same for managing VCD files.. Thnkx. :)

yoda313 posted 2009 May 25 11:40

Not exactly. VCD is a fixed format. In generic terms its 80mins on a 80min cdr. There are nonstandard xvcd or kvcd templates you can use to squeeze more video on a vcd. However these are nonstandard and not gaurenteed to play on every vcd compatible player. Another option is to buy some 90minute or 99minute cdrs to have more space. However again these aren't standard discs. Some players will read them and others won't.

johns0 posted 2009 May 25 17:56

You can author vcd mpegs as dvd then shrink the crap out of them.

Guest posted 2009 May 26 05:54

I think you people havn't used DVD Shrink yet ??? please help me!!!! :( I have some corrupted VCD movies I'm not able to copy them to PC I want a software like DVD shrink that can let me do anything with DVD movies.

Baldrick posted 2009 May 26 05:56

Try copy the vcds using using isobuster or vcdgear, extract the video files to mpg video files. See http://www.videohelp.com/forum/userguides/141726.php

Guest posted 2009 May 26 05:58

Thnkx!!! Admin :D

PuzZLeR posted 2009 May 26 06:38

johns0 : You can author vcd mpegs as dvd then shrink the crap out of them. Do you mean as MPEG-2 (converted)? Though MPEG-2 has a range of values on DvD, I thought that the MPEG-1 that DvD accepts is exactly like that accepted on VCD - a fixed bitrate, etc. No flexibility. As well, from my understanding, you can't shrink MPEG-2 that much either. Though most people will say MPEG-2 is "better" than MPEG-1, believe it or not, MPEG-1 is better suited for these low bitrates. MPEG-2 was designed, and optimized, for the higher quality, higher bitrates for the then up-and-coming "next thing", the DvD.

jman98 posted 2009 May 26 10:12

PuzZLeR : Though MPEG-2 has a range of values on DvD, I thought that the MPEG-1 that DvD accepts is exactly like that accepted on VCD - a fixed bitrate, etc. No flexibility. As well, from my understanding, you can't shrink MPEG-2 that much either. Though most people will say MPEG-2 is "better" than MPEG-1, believe it or not, MPEG-1 is better suited for these low bitrates. MPEG-2 was designed, and optimized, for the higher quality, higher bitrates for the then up-and-coming "next thing", the DvD. That's not quite right about MPEG-1 on DVD. While use of MPEG-1 is restricted to VCD resolution, bit rates of up to 1856 Kbps are OK. I've heard people say before that MPEG-1 is better suited for lower bitrates than MPEG-2, but I've seen no hard evidence to back that up. It may or may not be true. I'm just saying that I'd like to see some stats proving it rather than just blindly accepting this as fact. And MPEG video can be shrunk a LOT. If you convert a DVD from an average bit rate of 4000 Kbps to 400 Kbps, you'll show space savings of about 90%, but the real question is whether the final output is even watchable.

PuzZLeR posted 2009 May 26 23:13

jman98 : That's not quite right about MPEG-1 on DVD. While use of MPEG-1 is restricted to VCD resolution, bit rates of up to 1856 Kbps are OK. Since I haven't used MPEG-1 in years, I honestly couldn't remember its role with DvD. That's why I pointed out that I wasn't sure. But that cleared it up. :) jman98 : I've heard people say before that MPEG-1 is better suited for lower bitrates than MPEG-2, but I've seen no hard evidence to back that up. It may or may not be true. I'm just saying that I'd like to see some stats proving it rather than just blindly accepting this as fact. AFAIK, I have seen no quantifiable data on it. However, I can personally conclude this with a few empirical tests. I do know that the law of diminishing returns did apply to MPEG-1 (originally named just MPEG). MPEG-1 was never designed for the later demands of DvD. It wasn't as simple as just beefing up the bitrate/rez to it otherwise there would have never been an MPEG-2. On the contrary, MPEG-2 was designed for these higher quality formats, but not as compressible as MPEG-1. If MPEG-2 was made to be watchable at less than 1500kbps it would take away from its optimization for high quality video. There was MPEG-1 for sub-par quality for the lower bitrates. Those were the fundamental differences between MPEG 1 and 2 with the tech back then. jman98 : And MPEG video can be shrunk a LOT. If you convert a DVD from an average bit rate of 4000 Kbps to 400 Kbps, you'll show space savings of about 90%, but the real question is whether the final output is even watchable. I guess I was unclear. Yes, you could shrink MPEG-2 down to microcosms, but I meant what was your "real question" - it simply wouldn't be watchable. MPEG-1 beats MPEG-2 easily at the very low, low bitrates. Test and see for yourself with the same script/source for both encodes. You will notice that MPEG-2 looks nicer at 5000kbps+. MPEG-1 isn't as effective here. However, under 1000kbps, or even under 1500kbps, MPEG-2 becomes a canvas of undecipherable blocks while MPEG-1 maintains something that is, at least on smaller screens, something that is very watchable and recognizable to the original.

johns0 posted 2009 May 27 00:23

PuzZLeR : johns0 : You can author vcd mpegs as dvd then shrink the crap out of them. Do you mean as MPEG-2 (converted)? Vcd authored as dvd can be shrunk by dvdshrink and a mpg2 352x480 good source file encoded at 1150cbr is better than a 352x240 mpg1 vcd.

lordsmurf posted 2009 May 27 00:28

I've also run empirical tests on this, ages ago -- MPEG-1 was indeed better in many cases, compared to MPEG-2 and similar low-res size and bitrate.

tomlee59 posted 2009 May 28 13:59

Anurag : I think you people havn't used DVD Shrink yet ??? please help me!!!! :( I have some corrupted VCD movies I'm not able to copy them to PC I want a software like DVD shrink that can let me do anything with DVD movies. You seem to be making some confusing (or just plain confused) assumptions. DVD shrink doesn't repair corrupted movies, it shrinks uncorrupted ones. If you are trying to copy VCDs that have some mutant form of copy protection (AFAIK, India is the primary place you'll run into these, although on rare occasions these will show up in other parts of Asia), then ISOBuster is your best bet. There have already been threads here on this very topic, though, and ISOBuster was reportedly not successful in ripping VCDs that use the latest copy-protection schemes. Just try it and see. VCDgear, as mentioned, is a useful tool to have. It will convert, for example, .dat files into ordinary .mpg files, making it easy to use still other tools for further processing. It can also do some simple repair of mildly damaged or not-quite compliant files. Maybe that will solve your problem, if your VCDs are simply slightly damaged, as opposed to copy-protected. VCDgear is not a ripper, so don't expect it to do that. If you are trying to shrink the size of files, then reauthoring as DVD, then applying DVDShrink is possibly a good approach. The algorithms used by Shrink seem to be pretty smart. The requantizing it does generally yields superior results to a full re-encode from MPEG1 to MPEG1. I've never used DVDShrink on MPEG1 material this way, but I assume that it would work just fine.

Guest posted 2009 Jun 02 12:56

Thnkx...to all :)

SatStorm posted 2009 Jun 02 16:09

I use occasionally Mpeg 1, because it is "public domain" and works on everything. Mpeg 1 is only progressive, so it can be filtered better interlace mpeg 2. Also, it seems that it does it better with low bitrates (around 1.8 and lower). But shrinking is not the best approach, IMO. Re-encoding with some filtering, is. After you extract the mpeg 1 file, load it to virtualdub and add a couple of filters, like msu smart deblocking and msu denoise (which doesn't really denoise much, but helps a lot with compression). Then frameserve and re-encode to mpeg 1 at bitrates 800-1000kb/s. On 352x288/240 it looks decent that way. With today's CPUs, that is not so slow as it used to be some years ago. Not as fast as DVD Shrink, but far better in my opinion.

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