Sony HDR-SR1 camcorder

[jackedup]

My friend is considering buying a Sony HDR-SR1 camcorder. This is a HD camcorder with a 30GB hard drive.

The question is what you do with the video once it is captured? I would assume you would transfer it to your computer hard drive, but if you burn it to a DVD do you not lose the HD resolution? Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question, but the investment in the camcorder is significant in comparison to tradional camcorders, so would like to know what the options are to keep the HD video.

Thank you

[bobkart]

I have a Sony HDR-HC3. It records in HDV format on MiniDV tapes. I don't know if the camcorder you are considering records in HDV or not, but if it does, you should be able to transfer the content to a PC via FireWire (IEEE1394) and then author that into either standard DVDs or HD-DVDs (I've done both). For standard DVDs of course it will be downconverted to 720x480 resolution, but the HD-DVDs I've made (standard DVDs) hold the original video with no re-encoding (1440x1080 MPEG2 25Mb/s). I play them on my Toshiba HD-A1.

[jackedup]

I have a Sony HDR-HC3. It records in HDV format on MiniDV tapes. I don't know if the camcorder you are considering records in HDV or not, but if it does, you should be able to transfer the content to a PC via FireWire (IEEE1394) and then author that into either standard DVDs or HD-DVDs (I've done both). For standard DVDs of course it will be downconverted to 720x480 resolution, but the HD-DVDs I've made (standard DVDs) hold the original video with no re-encoding (1440x1080 MPEG2 25Mb/s). I play them on my Toshiba HD-A1.

Thanks for the reply. I am a little confused by this statement

"but the HD-DVDs I've made (standard DVDs) hold the original video with no re-encoding (1440x1080 MPEG2 25Mb/s)."

You refer to HD DVDs and then in brackets mention standard DVDs. Are you able to record HD on a standard DVD?

Thanks again.

[bobkart]

That's correct. From what I've read (and done), my understanding is that the HD-DVD Standard includes support for playback of HD-DVD-Compliant content authored to so-called "red-laser" discs (standard single-layer 4.7GB discs and double-layer 8.5GB discs). At 25Mb/s you get as much as 24 minutes on a single-layer disc and ~45 minutes on a double-layer disc.

Read all about it here.

[jackedup]

Would appreciate your opinion on whether the MiniDV tape is a better option then the Hard Drive.

Thanks

[JohnnyMalaria]

Tape is better because you aren't limited by the capacity of the hard drive. One 60 minute DV tape holds about 10GB.

If the hard drive was removable, that would be a different story.

Since it is not removable, you still have to stream the data from the camera to the computer - just like tape.

The only advantage I see is that you can randomly access any part of the recorded video - but only from within the camcorder itself. Not much of an advantage to me....

[jackedup]

That's correct. From what I've read (and done), my understanding is that the HD-DVD Standard includes support for playback of HD-DVD-Compliant content authored to so-called "red-laser" discs (standard single-layer 4.7GB discs and double-layer 8.5GB discs). At 25Mb/s you get as much as 24 minutes on a single-layer disc and ~45 minutes on a double-layer disc.

Read all about it here.

I assume you are writing the DVDs with a standard DVD burner?

[bobkart]

Yes.

One 60-minute MiniDV tape holds over 11GB, add to that the fact that they really hold 64+ minutes and it's more like 12GB. That's about the size of each file that resulted when I transferrred their contents to PC (full tape).

[mp3superfreak]

My friend is considering buying a Sony HDR-SR1 camcorder. This is a HD camcorder with a 30GB hard drive.

The question is what you do with the video once it is captured? I would assume you would transfer it to your computer hard drive, but if you burn it to a DVD do you not lose the HD resolution? Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question, but the investment in the camcorder is significant in comparison to tradional camcorders, so would like to know what the options are to keep the HD video.

Thank you

I have the HDR-SR1 and can shed some light on the subject. First of all, this camera uses MPEG-4/H.264 encoding with AC3 5.1 audio (Sony calls this AVCHD compression) at 1440x1080i resolution. I use the highest quality mode and get 4hrs on the 30GB disk. Your choices for playback are the following:

1) Hook up the HDR-SR1 to an HDTV using the HDMI or Component cables for true HD playback

2) Use the Sony "Picture Motion Browser" software (included with the camera) to convert the .m2ts files to MPEG-2 (Standard Def) for standard DVD playback

3) Also use the Sony software to create an "AVCHD DVD" disk. This is the full quality HD file on a standard DVD-+R. Unfortunately for now, these disks will only play back on the Sony BDP-S1 Blu-Ray player or Sony PS3. Rumors are surfacing that other Blu-Ray machines will playback these disks, but I've only tried the BDP-S1 at Best Buy with one of these disks. The quality is STUNNING!

I think the main advantage to the HDD based camcorder is the ability to QUICKLY transfer the video to the computer. If you have a miniDV based camcorder, it is a 1-1 capture process (1 hour of video takes 1 hour to capture). I can capture 1hr from my HDR-SR1 to my PC in about 5 minutes!

Of course, there are drawbacks to this camcorder. Mainly the current inability to edit the HD files it creates (AVCHD). Sony's Vegas 7 is slated to incorporate the ability to edit these files in an upcoming update, but it is still several months away (Spring '07).

Hopefully the above information is useful.

[bobkart]

... this camera uses MPEG-4/H.264 encoding with AC3 5.1 audio (Sony calls this AVCHD compression) at 1440x1080i resolution.

... convert the .m2ts files to MPEG-2 (Standard Def) for standard DVD playback

I'm confused by these two apparently conflicting parts of your post.

.m2ts files are MPEG2 Transport Stream (if I am not mistaken). Yet you say the camera records to MPEG-4/H.264.

[edDV]

To add context, there are consumer camcorder compression formats and storage media variations. Any combination is possible.

Current camcorder compression-media variations* include:

SD DV @25Mb/s (8mm tape, MiniDv tape, hard disk)
SD MPeg2 @ ~4-10Mb/s (DVD, Hard Disk)

HD HDV @25 Mb/s (MiniDv tape, hard disk)
HD HDAVC Mpeg4 h.264 based @ ~5-15Mb/s (tape, DVD, hard disk or flash memory)

The only format above that matches current DVD is SD MPeg2. Others need conversion.
HD DVD and BluRay DVD can use either MPeg2 or Mpeg4 (h.264 or VC-1)

Issues vary greatly in how each format is managed for capture to PC, editing and DVD authoring.

Best to understand the full process (including gaps to be filled in the future) before buying into a format.

* Even more variations exist at the Prosumer and Pro levels.


PS: The Sony HDR-SR1 camcorder records HDAVC for HD and MPeg2 for SD modes. It records to a hard disk. It has a brother, the HDR-UX1 that records HDAVC or MPeg2 to a DVD. Panasonic has shown a HDAVC camcorder that records to flash memory.

More info:
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Sony-HDR-SR1-First-Impressions-Camcorder-Review.htm
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/HDR-UX1-and-HDR-SR1---Sony-Unveils-AVCHD-Camcorders.htm

[mp3superfreak]

... this camera uses MPEG-4/H.264 encoding with AC3 5.1 audio (Sony calls this AVCHD compression) at 1440x1080i resolution.

... convert the .m2ts files to MPEG-2 (Standard Def) for standard DVD playback

I'm confused by these two apparently conflicting parts of your post.

.m2ts files are MPEG2 Transport Stream (if I am not mistaken). Yet you say the camera records to MPEG-4/H.264.

Sorry if I wasn't clear as there was a ton of info I was trying to pass in a short post. The HDR-SR1 creates MPEG-4/H.264 files, but they are named with the .m2ts file extension. Strange, I agree, but I've created a screenshot of some of the file names created by the SR1.

[bobkart]

Okay, thanks for clearing that up.

[mp3superfreak]

No problem. I'm no expert in .m2ts, but I'm assuming it is a "wrapper" like .avi.

On a side note, there is an interesting site showing how to remove the HDD in the HDR-SR1 and how it may be compatible with the 80GB drive in the iPod Video Gen 5.5. I wouldn't do this to my $1500 camcorder, but nice to see someone took the chance.

http://sony.hdr.sr1.googlepages.com/

[mp3superfreak]

Also, I want to apologize to jackedup for changing the subject. He asked specific questions that I think merit responses:

The question is what you do with the video once it is captured? I would assume you would transfer it to your computer hard drive, but if you burn it to a DVD do you not lose the HD resolution? Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question, but the investment in the camcorder is significant in comparison to tradional camcorders, so would like to know what the options are to keep the HD video.

1) Once the video is captured to the camcorder, you can either watch it directly from the camcorder (in HD quality - with the HDMI or Component connections) with an HDTV, or copy it to a PC and watch it there (using the Sony software for both). - note: The HD files will not play back smoothly on my Dell 1.8GHz Pentium M laptop with 1.5GB of memory and an ATI Radeon 9600 ProTurbo 128MB video card. Not the newest hardware, but I'd still assume it requires a hefty machine for smooth playback.

2) If you decide to burn the files to DVD, most likely you will use the Sony software to convert the files from HD to SD. Yes, this decreases the quality, but still gives you VERY GOOD quality video (when compared to virtually any other consumer Standard-Def camcorder).

So, the question for making the decision goes back to the original post....what are your intentions with this camcorder? Ease of use? Yes, but takes some work to convert and burn the files to DVD.

This product is "bleeding edge" and may or may not be a good choice for a "lasting" HD format. Sony is notorious for developing proprietary formats, but once you see the quality video produced by this camcorder (given decent lighting), I think you will be impressed. I was willing to take the chance with the HDR-SR1, mainly b/c I believe the H.264 compression has a future in the HD world.

I'm pretty happy with the camcorder and here's my current workflow - I take the video, capture it to my PC (highest quality HD mode), then convert to SD-MPEG-2 and burn to DVD. I still have the "raw" HD files, and plan on keeping them for future use (in a Blu-Ray player, next gen HD DVD, etc)

For my money it was a good purchase. Any specific questions about the camcorder, I'd be glad to answer.

[PharmBoy]

I was looking at the HDR-SR1 camcorder today at our local best buy. The salesman said that the 30gig HD would hold 15 hours of HD video. First off I am assuming that this is not true. How much HD video in terms of time can be stored to a DVD?

Secondly, I am wondering once I have the HD video loaded into my computer what can I do with it besides watch it uncut. It doesn't look as if I can edit this with adobe premiere. Does Sony have software that will at least let you edit it to some degree.

[bobkart]

I have the HDR-SR1 and can shed some light on the subject. First of all, this camera uses MPEG-4/H.264 encoding with AC3 5.1 audio (Sony calls this AVCHD compression) at 1440x1080i resolution. I use the highest quality mode and get 4hrs on the 30GB disk.

As far as how much HD video fits on a DVD5, that depends on the bitrate of course. I use HDV at 25Mb/s and I can get as much as 24 minutes on a standard DVD (4.5GB / 25Mb/s = 24 minutes). Doing the same calculation for a variety of bitrates yields this short table:

4.5GB / 30Mb/s = 20:00
4.5GB / 25Mb/s = 24:00
4.5GB / 24Mb/s = 25:00
4.5GB / 20Mb/s = 30:00
4.5GB / 18Mb/s = 33:20
4.5GB / 15Mb/s = 40:00

[mp3superfreak]

Secondly, I am wondering once I have the HD video loaded into my computer what can I do with it besides watch it uncut. It doesn't look as if I can edit this with adobe premiere. Does Sony have software that will at least let you edit it to some degree.

Great question as I'm currently suffering the consequences of this "bleeding edge" product. I'm not aware of any editing software currently on the market for the HDR-SR1's AVCHD files. Sony is slated to update their professional video editor Vegas 7 in the Spring with editing for these files.

There is a forum with info on the HDR-SR1:

SonyHDVinfo

EDIT: I could be wrong in my statement above.....One of the forum members posts:

Adobe Premire Pro 2.0 with the Mainconcept MPEG Pro HD Plug-in can edit AVCHD very well. Ive been looking for weeks and found nothing close. This does the trick.

You can see this particular post here:

http://www.sonyhdvinfo.com/showthread.php?t=8251[/b]