Forum Archive Home -> DVD Recorders -> Panasonic Tips and Tricks
Panasonic Tips and Tricks | ||||||||
| zorankarapancev posted 2005 Jan 06 17:41 | ||||||||
| After one year of intensive professional use of the Panasonic DMR-E60 DVD recorder and almost 500 happy clients without any complain about the quality of the recordings as well as the compatibility with other DVD players, I decided to share my experiences with other Panasonic owners hoping that this will help them to achieve similar results.
Few members of our community claim that they can see “horrible macro blocs” in Panasonic recordings. My clients and I have never ever seen anything like that and I am quite sure that the poor quality (other than specific source quality or a faulty unit) is the result of using factory default settings and recording presets – something that will never give you the best performance from these machines! The tips that follow gave me the opportunity to make recordings up to 3 hours with a full SP resolution and minimal digital artifacts as well as full compatibility with other DVD players. So, lets start with the proper settings: 1. Go to SETUP - VIDEO - Black Level Control: - Input level - make it "Darker". - Composite & SVideo Output Level - make it "Lighter". - Component Video Output Level - make it "Normal". This will assure correct black level setting on your recorder (no brighter or darker recorded images compare to the originals). 2. While you are there go to HYBRID VBR RESOLUTION and set it to FIXED. This is very important! The default setting is “Automatic”. Many Panasonic users think that this setting allows them to turn the VBR system “on” or “off”. WRONG! Variable Bit Rate is always ON and it can’t be turn OFF. If you leave it on "Automatic" then the recording system will lower (downshift) the resolution of the image (from 704x480 to 352x480 or 352x240) if it feels that it can compress the video easier at lower resolutions. The theory behind it: it switches to a lower resolution so it can stay within the maximum bit rate. My experience with this system has proven to me that it is better if you forget about the theory and go with the practical results! If you set it to "Fixed" then the recording system will set the resolution to one setting and leave it there for the duration of the recording! Also, the “Automatic” option causes playback problems on some DVD player units, and certain computer programs cannot deal with this and when exporting to an MPEG they will create a separate file every time there is a resolution switch. This is one of the crucial settings on Panasonic DVD recorders – make it “FIXED” if you want to have the best PQ and compatibility. 2. Never use XP mode (1Hr) recording if you have the intention to play recorded discs on other players. Some DVD players are choking (stuttering and freezing) playing DVD’s from Panasonic machines recorded with this high bit rate. 3. For recording anything up to 2Hrs of length use the SP preset. While the FR mode will provide marginally better quality on shorter programs, it will often select a bit rate too high for some DVD players. Also, my tests shows that the SP preset yields better recording quality than a Flexible Recording set on 2Hrs. So, use the SP preset and don’t worry about the quality of the recordings. 4. NEVER USE THE LP RECORDING PRESET! This preset should be banned for any recordings up to 3 hours! For any recording from 2 hours up to 3 hours (I made tests up to 2 hours and 55 minutes) use only the FR mode. Because of the “Fixed” setting, FR mode will give you full SP resolution of the recording up to 3 hours with a bit rate just below SP but well above LP. This is a remarkable quality achievement that I didn’t experience with any other brand of DVD recorders. All of them will “die” at 2 hours and 20-30 minutes. People who complain about Panasonic’s recording quality at these lengths didn’t have proper settings and (or) they were using the LP recording preset. 5. If you need recordings longer then 3 hors, use the SP preset and two DVD’s! Anything else is not serious. 6. Don’t be shy of using S-Video input instead of DV (if your model has one). You will be surprised to find that an analog input gives better recordings than the DV-in. Something that bothers me the most is the fact that a DV input will give you a slightly brighter picture (like the recordings of the JVC DR-M10S) than the original image. 7. Always use the best quality DVD-R’s. I hope that these tips will be helpful and I am encouraging other owners of the Panasonic DVD recorders to feel free to add any other tips or suggestions for getting better results from these machines. Zoran Screenshot from 2Hr and 55 min FR recording:  | ||||||||
| Bodyslide posted 2005 Jan 06 17:50 | ||||||||
| Good info Thanks. | ||||||||
| zorankarapancev posted 2005 Jan 06 17:58 | ||||||||
| I wanted to insert two screenshots that shows the picture resolution of 704x480 at 2Hrs and 55 Min, but for some reason it is not working.
Sorry. | ||||||||
| Synergy posted 2005 Jan 06 18:04 | ||||||||
Thanks for an excellent summary of Panasonic recorders' info. I think the most important one is to set "Hybrid VBR Resolution" to "Fixed", which will definitely improve playback and editing software compatibility.
I think Panasonic is well aware of this problem, that's why they addressed it on their upcoming product lineup, probably by adding 2/3 D1 resolution (480x480) and other tweaking. | ||||||||
| ejai posted 2005 Jan 06 19:51 | ||||||||
| I've been doing what you wrote here for over a year now and it works great. Thanks for helping others get better acquainted with the features of this recorder.
Great job. :D | ||||||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 Jan 06 21:10 | ||||||||
On all the quoted things shown here, 100% total agreement from me. If you ONLY use a Panasonic recorder in it's "cherry" settings, you'll love it. Pretty much 2-hour SP mode (and maybe FR for an extra half hour or so if you must). The flaws are nominal at these settings, nobody will really notice them without some serious searching. Definitely something that is bookmark-worthy for all who are interested. Obligatory dissenting viewpoint: MPEG and the DVD format, however, are more versatile had DO HAVE the ability for high quality recordings at other settings. You can easily fit 3-4 hours of high quality video onto a DVD, should the encoders cooperate. And that's the problem... Panasonic chipsets DO NOT cooperate. Luckily, for us that expect a higher amount of options, WHILE RETAINING the high quality output, we have recorders like JVC and Pioneer that cater to our desires. EDIT: After talking with another mod, we've made this a sticky in the DVD recorder forum. Some good info here, let's try to keep it a clean thread. | ||||||||
| Yvon posted 2005 Jan 07 03:35 | ||||||||
| [quote="zorankarapancev"]After one year of intensive professional use of the Panasonic DMR-E60 DVD recorder and almost 500 happy clients without any complain about the quality of the recordings as well as the compatibility with other DVD players, I decided to share my experiences with other Panasonic owners hoping that this will help them to achieve similar results..................
Zoran As usual, you are the top reviewer on this forum. Many thanks, Yvon | ||||||||
| elkfir posted 2005 Jan 07 21:06 | ||||||||
| zorankarapancev,
Great info, thanks for putting this together. As a user of a DMR-HS2, I don't think I can take advantage of your 1st point, unfortunately. I think I'm stuck with the black level bug (guess I'll just have to upgrade to a new Panasonic :) ) Also, based on your advice it looks like I use LP more than I should so I'll have to start taking better advantage of the FR mode. | ||||||||
| oldfart13 posted 2005 Jan 08 17:34 | ||||||||
| I've had my Panny E80 since October 2003 and have found very few (if any) players that freeze on recordings that are set to the max of 10Mb/s (XP speed). Those discs either came out of the recorder itself or were authored by me with Womble Mpeg Video Wizard and TMPGEnc DVD Author. The only recordings I do these days are in XP or FR modes, expecially for fast motion and heavy CGI (cartoons generally get SP though I make some exceptions and sometimes go to FR or XP). I've played these discs on players from Liteon, LG, Panasonic, Sony, Nova, Apex, PS2, Pioneer, Daytek, Memorex, JVC, RCA, Symphonic (Funai), Philips and a number more and haven't heard a complaint from anyone that the discs don't play. Practically any player built within the past 3 years plays them without a hiccup. What players don't the discs play in at high bit rates?? | ||||||||
| zorankarapancev posted 2005 Jan 08 23:11 | ||||||||
| Some players have problems playing high bit rates not only from Panasonic DVD recorders, but also from other brands. I can mention two of them that I personally have: Daytek and Malata. They have occasional hiccups also playing XP recordings from the Sony DVD recorders. | ||||||||
| oldfart13 posted 2005 Jan 09 01:09 | ||||||||
| My Bud's Daytek DP-30 loves the material I supply him with and that recorder's player section is somewhat lacking...
I also have a Malata DVP-393 that plays everything I put into it. See my review of that unit... | ||||||||
| zorankarapancev posted 2005 Jan 09 09:46 | ||||||||
| The models that I have are Daytek P871 and Malata DVP-500P. | ||||||||
| Yvon posted 2005 Jan 14 06:16 | ||||||||
| [quote="zorankarapancev"]
..............3. For recording anything up to 2Hrs of length use the SP preset. While the FR mode will provide marginally better quality on shorter programs, it will often select a bit rate too high for some DVD players. Also, my tests shows that the SP preset yields better recording quality than a Flexible Recording set on 2Hrs. So, use the SP preset and don’t worry about the quality of the recordings............. Zoran _____________________________________________________________ Hi Zoran, There seems to be kind of a contradiction in your statement about the FR mode. You once said that you would never buy a DVD recorder without a FR mode option (as mentioned about the new Sony DVD recorder) and now, you recommend to stay away from the FR option (in a practical way) because of problems that might occur with other DVD readers, for recording anything up to 2Hrs of length. Accordingly, I conclude that the FR option is not so important. Do you have a commentary to make about the importance of RF recording? Thanks, Yvon | ||||||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 Jan 14 06:36 | ||||||||
| @Yvon
This is merely a quirk of Panasonic. For a machine like a JVC or Pioneer, FR modes are hugely valuable. I'm not sure I could survive without a FR these days, not unless it came with more presets at every hour or half hour. | ||||||||
| andydd posted 2005 Jan 14 06:50 | ||||||||
| Interesting info although Id add that Ive never had problems with discs recorded in XP mode AND XP mode is the only mode that allows you a choice of audio recorded in LPCM Stereo or Dolby Digital 2.0, I havnt realy ever sat down n compared the two but it may be of interest if you wish to record some music TV programs. | ||||||||
| Marvingj posted 2005 Jan 14 07:01 | ||||||||
| Great Post! | ||||||||
| zorankarapancev posted 2005 Jan 14 19:12 | ||||||||
Yvon, I am sorry if I was not clear enough in my post about the FR and SP recording modes. I will take this opportunity to say a few more words about this matter. - If your intention is to play the recorded discs exclusively on the recorder that you are using to make them or on a high quality player that you have already tested, then whatever I said before is not important for you. In my business, I have to make sure that EVERY recorded DVD disc will play on ANY player, from the refurbished el-chipo models with questionable quality to the state of the art masterpieces that cost many times more than our DVD recorders. - The FR recording is definitely the most important recording mode. Having said that, I have to clarify something. If you compare this mode to SP preset you will notice some improvement in the recording quality in the lengths of up to 90 minutes. After that, the quality is pretty much the same as the SP preset. Just out of curiosity, I made two test recordings: one with FR mode set exactly on 2 Hrs and the other one with the SP preset mode. As I stated before, I found the SP recording just a notch better. I doubt that many people will notice that difference, but the point is that at that length you will not be able to have any quality advantage from the FR mode. The reason why the SP recording is better is because this setting is optimized in any aspect for maximizing the quality at 2 hours. For the FR mode EACH time setting for EACH recording is a guessing game. The best analogy that I can give you is like traveling to your work place. You have done that for a thousand times but for me, for example, traveling to your work place would be for the first time ever. We will both get there, but the difference is that your ride will be smoother and more certain than mine. - Panasonic’s FR mode is designed to always use the highest bit rate at any moment of the recording. In that perspective, it is very opportunistic and it will even change the resolution momentarily if it will help it to raise the bit rate. Unfortunately, some players are not able to handle high beat surges and resolution changes from the recordings done this way and they will choke and stutter. For me personally, there is only one option: ensuring full compatibility at the expense of the marginal quality difference (that nobody will notice anyway). - The FR mode shines in the lengths between 2 and 3 hours! It is easily understandable when we know that the next recording preset is the 4 hour mode. With a fixed SP resolution you can make very good FR recordings up to the full length of 180 minutes. - Panasonic has a notch higher bit rate than Sony, but Sony has better picture quality because it uses 12 bit analog/digital converter and better filters. Sony’s hill of Achilles is the lack of the FR mode in order to maximize its potential at the full SP resolution at recordings longer then 2 hours. For a better understanding of what that means, see the wonderful example provided by our friend tommyoz: http://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=245761&postday ... p;start=30 Panasonic is well aware of these weaknesses and that is why the newest DVD recorders are completely redesigned with a higher resolution LP recording mode and a new 12-bit A/D converter. http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?d ... 4011220505 | ||||||||
| Yvon posted 2005 Jan 14 22:28 | ||||||||
| [quote="zorankarapancev"][quote]
Yvon, I am sorry if I was not clear enough in my post about the FR and SP recording modes. I will take this opportunity to say a few more words about this matter..... Thanks Zoran, It could'nt be clearer. Yvon | ||||||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 Jan 14 22:39 | ||||||||
| Another Panasonic issue to deal with is the fact that it's discs have long been constrained to only 4GB worth of data, while most others go to 4.25-4.30GB of data. This affects various visual/audio settings. I'm not sure if this was fixed in the most recent models. Something to note. It may seem small, but 250-300MB can mean a lot. | ||||||||
| Cyrax9 posted 2005 Jan 17 19:46 | ||||||||
I noticed something "odd" about this actually when I was looking at some Disc's in OSX on my G4 Laptop. When I clicked "Get Info" the Mac quickly pointed out that anything burned in FR Mode was dead set at 4GB. However, if I looked underneath the "File Size in GB" to where it shows the size in plain old "bytes" I was clearly seeing files that came off around 4.01-4.2GB -- I don't know if this is OSX not reading the Disc correctly, or Panasonic "faking" the size of the DVD to 4GB using some proprietary Variant of the UDF format. Any help would be appreciated. (All Windows machines I've used show 4GB max; I'm assuming that's strictly due to the FAT32 file system. I haven't done anything with WinXP and I'm about to play around with the DMR-E500HS after making the suggested tweaks -- I'll put another report in here if I notice a differance in size entirely.) A couple of Comments/Suggestions Zoran: 1. You seem to have already addressed my comment about FR Recording modes. My Dad's friend in the UK wanted to see a US Broadcast of a Cowboys Game on ABC (Yes, the one with the T. O./Desperate Housewives controversey, and I've still saved that opening!) to compare to what they get on Sky Digital. (He doesn't like the Brittish announcers.) Since, my father said he didn't care too much about quality other than that of the sound, I recorded the game in SP Mode onto my HDD, and moved it to a DVD using FR Mode. The end result apparently looked fine despite re-encoding and I didn't notice an issue. I checked it on my Mac and there was no noticable downshift in quality although regular Digital Cable issues were a factor. (That's fixed though, I got DISH Network.) Likewise I had to convert a friend's Japanese VHS tapes to DVD for him, again I dumped everything onto the HDD of my HS2 and split/trimmed the show, (Tapes had some junk noise between episodes) then used FR mode to dump them onto 4GB DVD's. He had no problems with them on the cheapo unit and of course GI=GO (Garbage In = Garbage Out) applies, but the result was what, to me; looked like a better quality picture and a more reliable DVD. -- I had issues with SP Recording for conversions. Since the shows were originally shot in NTSC-J I don't believe there was any IRE Issue at the time. 2. This one's more of a question, but should I set the Dolby Digital/DTS Audio settings to "PCM" (Pulse Coded Modulation) which is uncompressed IIRC, or to Bitstream" which I'm assuming is a compressed audio format, am I right? I have everything set to "PCM" right now but suggestions would be welcome. 3. This is a comment/question, but should I turn the "Attenuator" on or off on the Panasonic DMR-E500HS. As far as I can tell this tries to "normalize" the Volume of what's recorded to one level, but I can't be sure and I don't know if it carries over onto recorded Disc's yet. The manual has virtually no information on it, but it seems to be nice to use it if you have a program thats very quiet and then one that's EXTREMELY LOUD! -- I'm guessing this is purely asthetic taste, but it annoys me enough when a CD is recorded and the tracks all have different Volumes, if this prevents it on a DVD I'd be very happy. I do occasionally have someone send me their home movies and of course, everything's recorded at a different level for Volume and it sounds crazy. 4. For 16:9 Letterbox recordings should I choose letterbox or Pan & Scan? I know it's all coming out at 4:3 anyway or more accurately 4:3 "Fake Widescreen" after a downconversion, so I have it set to Letterbox, should I change this to Pan & Scan? 5. This is a comment: Don't even bother ATTEMPTING to use EP Mode unless you're archiving old VCD's in garbage quality adn want to save Disc space. If you're recording anything worth viewing avoid EP Mode, especially the new 8-Hour EP Mode. (Garbage In = Nothing out is more accurate here.) 6. Another Comment: I noticed the DMR-HS2 has horrid LP mode, this is pretty much SP VHS to me, with minor pixelation on occasion. I used LP Mode (4-Hours) on the DMR-E500HS though and the quality improvement was signifigant, it's not SP Mode but there's far less macroblocking and if you really want to pinch space and don't care about quality, it's passable on newer machines, but it's pretty much somewhere between VCD and DVD Quality. 7. Comment: If you're going to trim chunks of Video (e.g. Commercials) on the recorder and then edit on the PC, leave a little "Garbage Video" intact, although it's far less noticable on the E500HS, the HS2 and some older units show a blatant audio drop where the show was cut. So if you really want to be safe, trim on the HDD and record to DVD, then edit the DVD on your PC. This is the best meathod for me. I should also note, that I've converted videos for people who have units ranging from Apex trash to Home-theater set-ups and have only had a problem when I use crappy media. (E.g. Memorex DVD-R's are nothing but a problem for me.) I have never recived a complaint about Maxell, BeAll or other "durable" brands. I only have issues with bizzaro models. I have an idea to get around that Camcorder issue on the DV Input as well: When you plug it into the DV Input, crank up the Contrast and lower the brightness setting, that could get around the washed out look described in the guide, I'll have to try it eventually when my Uncle brings videos again. | ||||||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 Jan 20 11:36 | ||||||||
4.38 computer GB = 4,700,000 bytes. So 4GB would be about 4,200,000 bytes, as you saw. No mystery here. The recorders simply do not use all of the disc. | ||||||||
| Ddanrr posted 2005 Jan 20 20:51 | ||||||||
| "- Panasonic’s FR mode is designed to always use the highest bit rate at any moment of the recording. In that perspective, it is very opportunistic and it will even change the resolution momentarily if it will help it to raise the bit rate. Unfortunately, some players are not able to handle high beat surges and resolution changes from the recordings done this way and they will choke and stutter."
Zoran, So does this mean the Panasonic FR mode will "change the resolution momentarily" even if you have set the HYBRID VBR RESOLUTION to FIXED as suggested at the beginning of this thread? Also you wrote: "Panasonic's newest DVD recorders are completely redesigned with a higher resolution LP recording mode and a new 12-bit A/D converter." As an experienced Panasonic DVD recorder user, how do you feel these changes will improve the recorders from what is available now? What bit A/D converter does the E55 have? Does using a higher bit converter have any negative effects such as lowering the bit rate? I am wondering if it will be worth the wait for the new recorders, my primary uses will be SP and occasionally past 2 hours for those longer movies, but probably not past 3 hours. Do you think SP mode PQ will benefit from the 12 bit converter, or is all the benefit for the LP mode. I am also wondering if a redesigned model will have a new set of bugs to be worked out. -Dan R. | ||||||||
| zorankarapancev posted 2005 Jan 21 07:17 | ||||||||
| Dan,
If you leave the Hybrid Variable Bit Rate on "Automatic" then the recording system will lower the resolution so it can stay within the maximum bit rate. If you set it to "Fixed" then the recording system will set the resolution to one setting and leave it there for the duration of the recording. The Panasonic DVD recorders have 10-bit/54Mhz AD converters, as the rest of the DVD recorders today. Sony is the only manufacturer that uses the new 12-bit/108Mhz AD converter making the difference in the picture quality evident to everybody. PQ is smoother with less digital artifacts and more natural colors and texture at any recording speed. The new 12-bit converter will elevate the picture quality of Panasonic’s DVD recorders to new levels and together with the excellent FR recording mode it will make the Panasonic the most serious contender for the leading position in the DVD recorders world. So, if you are not in a hurry, wait a few monts and get a new model. If you have to make the purchase now, look for the discounts on the existing models. | ||||||||
| Cyrax9 posted 2005 Jan 22 06:12 | ||||||||
| @ Lordsmurf: This is due to the whole 1024/1000 bits = a byte= a megabyte = a gigabyte disaster, right? I honestly wish that computer makers would fix that "mistake" of labeling drives in 1000's when they're all 1024 at code-level, when I was studying programming this was responsible for many flaws.
@ zorankarapancev: Are any of those new recorders comperable to my "hulking" DMR-E500HS unit? It's a pretty nice machine (ST: Enterprise comes out well on it, and LP mode seems to have been improved; good for low-quality one time recordings.) and I don't want to upgrade unless there's a unit with the same features, namely the 400GB HDD that's become a solution for an archival procrastinator. I have a Panny DMR-HS2 and a DMR-E500HS -- got both when they were the "Top of the line" Models. I was wondering what the differances were aside from the obvious like IRE Control and of course the extra zero on the E500HS's HDD at the end there. ;) I should mention I had a neighboor who worked for Panasonic (Too bad he moved right around the time I met him.) and mentioned that Sony and Panasonic are "Mortal Enemies" so expect Sony to juice something out quickly to stay ahead, this is ironicaly a key reason Matsushita did the Nintendo GameCube optical drive -- they DESPISE Sony. It's also a driving factor for them to make a comperable product to Sony and win over their customers, with similar proprietary formats even. Think Microsoft vs. Apple here. My family has a friend in NYC who's sister works for Sony, he mentioned to me that she had told him Sony underestimated DVD Recorders and had been pllaqying catch-up for awhile, it's understandable that they're trying to get the absolute best unit out, especially when Panasonic has several consumer-grade models. The only real competitor is JVC but they charge an arm and a leg which is why I don't have all JVC equipment. (They wanted $500 more for a TV that was identical to a Sony with the exception of theirs being HD-Ready, but then it's a small price for their quality I guess.) I wonder if the Panasonic 4GB "Cap" is so the Disc will play in any player? I ran into some chipster no-names that wouldn't read disc's over 4GB, might be a "Dummy protocol" to make sure the Disc's read in any unit. Also here are my three Panasonic gripes: 1. 704x480 res, why can't they do 720x480? This is a nitpick but still, it's a bit irksome to upconvert every video I record. 2. Random remote designs; seriously Sony used the same shells for 20 years, why can't Panasonic do the same thing? My Sony remote from a 13 year old TV works on my set from 2k2 as well, this is just an irk overall about 50 remote variants. 3. Why doesn't Panasonic sell "upgrade discs" for people with older recorders? Something to add in the new "features" that new units have such as filters or bitrate setting upgrades. HDD Units could benefit from a new HDD and firmware upgrade as well. I noticed FR Mode seems indistinquishable from SP Mode on my Mac, I have to squint to see a differance an if I'm recording 3 Hours it's a great idea. The E500HS has an improved LP Mode compared to the HS2, but it's still barely above SVCD Quality. If they ever make a unit that's comperable to the E500HS w/the new features please let me know, I'll sell my E500HS and grab the new unit as I really didn't want to upgrade but my HS2 died and I needed a new recorder by Feb 5. 2005 -- long story. Also can anybody answer my audio questions for correct settings? | ||||||||
| zorankarapancev posted 2005 Jan 22 14:49 | ||||||||
| Cyrax9,
I don’t work for Panasonic, so I can only guess the answers for most of your questions. Probably they would be connected with marketing and making profits. Slightly lower resolution of 704x480 instead of 720x480 definitely helps the system to go with higher bit-rate. Panasonic, Sony and a few other well-known brands don’t sell their product to us to be beta tested. That is why they don’t “upgrade” their products with “upgrade discs”. You don’t upgrade anything that is properly made. The difference in the price that we are paying for these brands compare to the other ones go for factory beta testing and trouble shooting before the products are introduced on the market, for the higher grade materials used in their products and for better technical support. Regarding the upgrade of the bit-rate setting: you can’t upgrade the AD converters with the “upgrade disc”. You can only replace them with new converters. Make no mistake, the new DVD recorders, using the latest 12 bit/108Mhz AD converter, will give you better quality recording. That doesn’t mean that you have to sell your machine if you are happy with it. | ||||||||
| KavMan posted 2005 Jan 22 16:41 | ||||||||
| What is this 4gb cap you guys are talking about?
Is it when burning to DVD-R? I've never burned to DVD-R before so I wouldn't know if that is the case I burn everything to DVD-RAM and do my stuff on the computer and the most I can get out of the disc as reported in Windows Explorer is around 4,442,874 = 4.23 For the stuff I'm recording it's just right, leaving me around 130-140 mb that I need for title and chapter motion menus in TDA | ||||||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 Jan 22 16:58 | ||||||||
| DVD-R | ||||||||
| Cyrax9 posted 2005 Jan 22 19:38 | ||||||||
You know, I had considered that but I saw that Pioneer was recording at 720x480, and then dismissed it as bad R&D for awhile. However, this would explain why Disc's I burn look better than the ones coming off of a friends Pioneer unit when we compared them. Then again I don't know if they've gotten their act together but everything I bought from Pioneer between 2001-2003 fell apart within a matter of days and on occasion weeks if I was lucky. That's actually the reason I'm wary of buying anything from Pioneer again until I hear they've improved QA.
I'm quite happy with my two Panasonic units, but if I can get a better quality recording on the new units I'd like to consider an upgrade. I was also wondering why they didn't mention any of these units having DL Disc capabilities which I would expect fairly soon, ahh well... it seems like DL is being reserved for the PC as of now. | ||||||||
| chole posted 2005 Jan 30 13:48 | ||||||||
| Does it work out well if you record to the hardrive from SVHS and digital cable in XP mode and then copy to _R in SP mode? | ||||||||
| zorankarapancev posted 2005 Jan 30 22:58 | ||||||||
| From the SVHS VCR you can use S-video cable, not digital (DV) cable… and the transfer from the hard drive(XP) to DVD-R(SP) works quite well. | ||||||||
| skittelsen posted 2005 Jan 31 00:44 | ||||||||
| I have the DMR-E50 and have no problems with the LP (4 hour) mode. It's 352x480 at about 2.5MB/sec, which looks fine for VHS recordings. However, I don't know why they talk about the 10 or 12 bit A/D video converters, when it looks like the TBC that all video has to go through has about a 5 bit resolution! It shows clearly banding on solid surfaces. To me this is a much bigger problem than macro-blocks in the mpeg compression at low bit rates. | ||||||||
| zorankarapancev posted 2005 Jan 31 09:00 | ||||||||
| Because this is not a question but a subjective point of view and comment about the results of the DVD conversions from VHS tapes, based on a personal experience, I have only one suggestion for you: buy a new, higher quality, VHS machine and “banding on solid surfaces” will certainly disappear. As a last resort for the extremely bad VHS tapes you can consider buying an external TBC. For more info about TBC’s and video processors go to:
http://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=43 | ||||||||
| chloh posted 2005 Feb 03 00:35 | ||||||||
| Thks for tips! I wonder why ppl diss the LP and EP mode, I used them to put 6 hours of movie onto a single disc and it's very watchable, esp for comedies, cartoons, news, cooking shows and mini series.
My question to the expert is this: HOW TO MAKE THE AUDIO MONO? The line in is stereo, but if we are dubbing from a mono sound source (my cable is mono, as is my VCR) then the sound only comes out on the side that is plugged into the Panny. I searched hi and low but could not find a setting to MONO so that the single AUDIO IN comes out on both sides. Any ideas? Cheers CH | ||||||||
| celso_java posted 2005 Feb 03 03:50 | ||||||||
| This post really made me feel doubts about what dvd recorder I shoud buy. In fact, the country I live JVC is so new that most of the shops doesn't have it.
Panny ones are usual here and I didn't buy one because I heard a lot about the JVC one. Despite of the loading I was still wanting to buy a JVC one. But after reading a lot of msg telling picture quality in Panny are better I'm starting to think about buying a Panny. Does anybody know what's the difference about the 50, 55 and 60 models? I can find easily here the 55. Is there anyone here who owns both and could post pics comparing their picture quality? Thanks | ||||||||
| zorankarapancev posted 2005 Feb 03 08:06 | ||||||||
The solution is very simple. Use Y-splitter cable and split the mono output from your VCR. | ||||||||
| zorankarapancev posted 2005 Feb 03 08:28 | ||||||||
The differences between the models are not very important to casual user. The E-60 model is discontinued (it has DV input and few memory card slots) as well as E-50. Panasonic is coming with exciting new models of DVD recorders with the newest generation of AD processors, so expect price drop on existing line of recorders. If you have to buy now, don't have any doubts, look for the discounted price on E-55. It is one of the best DVD recorders on the market today and certainly the best value for your money. | ||||||||
| Yvon posted 2005 Feb 08 14:53 | ||||||||
| [quote="zorankarapancev"]
........Because of the “Fixed” setting, FR mode will give you full SP resolution of the recording up to 3 hours with a bit rate just below SP but well above LP. This is a remarkable quality achievement that I didn’t experience with any other brand of DVD recorders....... Zoran quote] I am a great fan of the Sharp DVD recorders. I have owned the Sharp DV-RW2U for over a year and I consider that no other DVD recorder could have a better PQ. The Digital Superpicture option on playback makes the picture look even better than what was seen on the TV while recording. The modes FINE (1 hour), SP (2 hours) and EP (4 hours) are recorded at 8 MB/ps, 5 MB/ps, and 2.5 MB/ps respectively. If a 3 hour recording is programmed on the timer, it will record the entire 3 hours at a near SP fixed setting of 4 MB/ps. I can confirm it. Yvon | ||||||||
| zorankarapancev posted 2005 Feb 09 08:55 | ||||||||
| The Panasonic has the highest average bit rate from any DVD recorder on a market today, even at the XP and SP speed. This is achieved by lowering the resolution at 704x480, which is just a touch below 720x480.
At XP mode it records over 10 MB/ps, SP up to 8MB/ps and at 3Hr (FR) peaks over 4 MB/ps. At LP mode(4Hrs) it records somewhere around 2,5 MB/ps. | ||||||||
| Captain Satellite posted 2005 Feb 09 09:10 | ||||||||
| What speed do you guys record your television broadcasts at? | ||||||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 Feb 09 09:15 | ||||||||
The ZORAN VADDIS V chipset is the magic in the box. It is a very good encode, I agree. | ||||||||
| Yvon posted 2005 Feb 09 15:58 | ||||||||
Once again, you are right, now that I have seen the Panasonic bitrates. Thanks, Yvon | ||||||||
| zorankarapancev posted 2005 Feb 13 11:26 | ||||||||
Screens from recording done with FR mode 2Hr55min:
Rich and vibrant colors, deep blacks, sharp and detailed images without digital artifacts and macro blocks. | ||||||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 Feb 13 12:37 | ||||||||
| That image is too dark. There are no highlights. Darks (like brown hair) have turned to solid black. After recent research it has come to my attention that Panasonic is simply darker than it should be on encodes. That's the sole reason so many Panasonic fans think other machines are "too light" when it comes to image quality.
I further suggest that Panasonic has NEVER EVER fixed their IRE problems. What they have done to "correct" the issue is to allow the user to augment either the gamma or the luminance. Not the IRE. The results of such a change is that, while the "black level" is put to a darker tone, so are the lighter colors and whites. Furthermore, augmenting in this method would likely give the false appearance of "richer" colors, as darkening an image gives false ideal of "enriching color". That really solves some of the mystery of Panasonic image quality. A lot of it is false, and gives users false impression of other machines that can truly do a better job. The TIPS and TRICKS ... aye, TRICKS ... can help you, but it will never 100% correct these machines, not until Panasonic decides to entirely re-design the units from the ground up. They simply messed up so many years ago, and have been too lazy to fully correct their years-old mistakes. | ||||||||
| zorankarapancev posted 2005 Feb 13 12:55 | ||||||||
Since you didn’t see the original image captured on tape, please don’t make pointless and useless assumptions. | ||||||||
| Captain Satellite posted 2005 Feb 13 15:35 | ||||||||
I appreciate your informative posts. I'm looking forward to the next generation of Panasonics. | ||||||||
| jrh1194 posted 2005 Feb 13 17:35 | ||||||||
| Thanks zorankarapancev for posting those pictures...I see our favorite Panny basher is back criticizing again. Typical propaganda comments against Panasonic. These images are fine..Far superior to anything by that JVC crap and guess what...no loading problems!!! Some day he will wake up or maybe not. | ||||||||
| Captain Satellite posted 2005 Feb 13 17:38 | ||||||||
| You know you're a doomed JVC owner when they post a sticky entitled "JVC DR-M10 Loading and Repair Question". | ||||||||
| jrh1194 posted 2005 Feb 13 17:43 | ||||||||
| Captain Satellite - You are exactly right. Yet he spends all his time making up nonsense about Panasonic. I know that we all realize that what he says is bull. But I'm sure it will continue. The Panny units work great.Very good picture and NO RELIABILITY ISSUES!!!!! JVC and to a lesser extent Liteon are garbage. | ||||||||
| houtx67 posted 2005 Feb 16 16:55 | ||||||||
This is an informative post. I have been doing much of this already since I got my E-30 and then E-100. My question is about point 1 above. I believe it was established earlier in the history of the DVD recorder hardware forum here that the best settings for US television recording would be to have the Input set to "Lighter" and the output set to "Darker" (component remains "normal"). The rationale being because of the higher IRE black level at which US television broadcasts. To set it to "Darker" would make the recording even darker. I have used the Light-In and Dark-Out for ~ 1 1/2 years on my E-100 and been very pleased with the results. Does anyone have any comments or feedback regarding the optimal settings for the input and output? Also, I would like to add that even though the Panasonics "cap" at the 4 GB level for real time recording on discs. If you have a harddrive model, you can high speed dub from the Harddrive at up to 4409 MB (the cap doesn't affect data transfer, only encoding). This means you can get about 2 hours and 11 minutes of SP mode onto a DVD-R high speed dubbed from the harddrive. This works great for (3) x tv 1 hr episodes that usually get down to about ~43 minutes when the commercials are edited out. It also means if you are recoding something a little over 2 hours, you can use your harddrive in SP mode to get it all without FR mode. | ||||||||
| gshelley61 posted 2005 Feb 16 17:11 | ||||||||
| DVD's should be encoded with the black level set at 0 IRE. I believe the "darker" analog video input setting on the Panny DVD recorders will adjust a NTSC 7.5 IRE black level source (like VHS or laserdisc) to approximately 0 IRE. For sources that are already at 0 IRE, like MiniDV and other digital formats, "lighter" would probably be the correct input setting. | ||||||||
| zorankarapancev posted 2005 Feb 16 22:08 | ||||||||
| Since the DV signal is in digital domain, it bypasses the TBC completely and therefore it is not affected from the black level control settings. | ||||||||
| gshelley61 posted 2005 Feb 16 23:03 | ||||||||
The E50 unit I had did not have a firewire input, so s-video analog input is what I used to transfer DV tape. In fact, even though my JVC has a firewire input jack, I still usually run my MiniDV and Digital8 camcorder analog s-video output through my Proc Amp and then into the DVD recorder... the DV stream capture method doesn't allow one to correct for lighting conditions, color saturation, etc. | ||||||||
| gshelley61 posted 2005 Feb 17 16:58 | ||||||||
| Just an informative note... used Panny E55 DVD recorders are going for less than $150 on eBay these days. That's a pretty good deal if you are thinking about checking one out. | ||||||||
| chloh posted 2005 Feb 21 19:09 | ||||||||
| Thks. I thought of this, but I was hoping there was a more elegant solution. I also think, but am not sure, that physically splitting the signal with a cable will reduce the audio quality. Myth or fact?
As I am recording some opera, I would like the audio to be as good as possible. Cheers ch
| ||||||||
| zorankarapancev posted 2005 Feb 21 20:55 | ||||||||
Physically splitting the signal with a cable will not reduce the audio quality. It will only reduce a little bit the audio level but it will not affect your enjoyment of listening to the music. If you visit a local RadioShack store, you can find affordable video processors with “audio gain” control. Buy one of those boxes and connect it between the VCR and the DVD recorder. Bust the audio signal to a higher level if that will make you happier. | ||||||||
| zorankarapancev posted 2005 Feb 23 19:19 | ||||||||
More about the correct choice betwen "Lighter" and "Darker": http://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=258753&start=90 gshelley61 is positive that "Darker" should be the right choice. | ||||||||
| ann coates posted 2005 Feb 23 19:31 | ||||||||
| Out of curiosity what is everyone who has a Panasonic using for their settings?
I though the correct setting was: Input level - "Darker" Composite and SVideo Output Level - "Lighter" Component Video Output Level - "Normal" | ||||||||
| zorankarapancev posted 2005 Feb 23 19:51 | ||||||||
You are right. | ||||||||
| FulciLives posted 2005 Feb 23 23:14 | ||||||||
| I just wanted to add that I have found many DVD players (including two that I own, a Pioneer and a Cyberhome) that will NOT play DVD-R discs made from a Panny stand alone DVD recorder.
I have a friend with one and every DVD-R he gives me has to be redone by me using TMPGEnc DVD Author. It seems when I re-author it (just import the video and audio no re-encoding) and then burn it myself ... the result is a DVD-R that plays back just fine on my DVD players. I think the problem is the file structure perhaps that Panasonic uses or the DVD burner inside is a POS. All I know is redoing it with TMPGEnc DVD Author results in a perfectly readable DVD-R disc unlike the original that came straight out of the Panny. - John "FulciLives" Coleman | ||||||||
| zorankarapancev posted 2005 Feb 23 23:27 | ||||||||
| Interesting… I didn’t experience that problem...
The only thing that comes to my mind is the fact that Panasonic DVD recorders don’t create AUDIO folder. Some of the DVD players (the older models specifically) are looking for this folder in order to recognize the DVD disc. With re-authoring the disc you are simply adding that missing folder. | ||||||||
| zorankarapancev posted 2005 Feb 24 20:05 | ||||||||
| Great find from our friend oldfart13!
If you have an E85H, you might want to check this out: http://www.dxcc.com/dmr-e85h.htm | ||||||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 Feb 24 20:10 | ||||||||
Because you never know when a webpage may disappear: :wink:
Besides quality complaints, the #2 most heard Panasonic aggravation is hard drive failures. I don't have the time/patience to read the above article (yet), so hopefully this is addressing this HUGE problem. | ||||||||
| chas0039 posted 2005 Feb 24 21:38 | ||||||||
| There is a lot of discussion above about the 4 Gig "cap" set by Panasonic recorders and whether it is real or a function of some software fakery. Any way you look at it you are getting less. If you look at the burns from the discs, you will see that they do not burn to the full edge but stop just short. I believe they also start the burn a little farther away from the center ring as well. This results in less burned media and the corresponding reduction in quality. Early opinion on this had to do with the loss of quality on the edges of discs made in the early years and Panasonic's attempt to avoid bad areas of the disc.
My apologies if this did get mentioned before and I missed it. | ||||||||
| gshelley61 posted 2005 Feb 25 06:04 | ||||||||
| If you visit the DVD Recorders section at avsforum.com, you will find lots of complaints about the Panasonic machines there. They are not universally accepted as "the best". To be fair, the avsforum has complaints (and praises) about practically everthing... | ||||||||
| zorankarapancev posted 2005 Feb 25 06:42 | ||||||||
I agree with you, but perhaps we could edit the text and make it shorter because the main idea could be easily related with less text. | ||||||||
| oldfart13 posted 2005 Feb 25 11:59 | ||||||||
| Actually, avsforum does have a lot of praise for the Panny units and a lot of detractors for the cheapo Chinese origin units. That group was a big booster of the Panny line especially from the units that came out a year ago. But then again, there are a lot of professional people using that board or else where would you get groups with titles like "Projection TV equipment $20,000 [USD] and up"? How many guys on this board can afford those kind of toys? Not me let me tell you... | ||||||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 Feb 25 17:23 | ||||||||
Well, sort of. A lot of that is smoke blowing by certain infamous avsforum trolls. We also have to discriminate reviews, to eliminate the "clueless idiot" or "newbie" factor. That pretty much holds true on ANY KIND OF REVIEW. Try to filter out the worthwhile ones, and then examine only those. You most often end up with just a handful of good reviews, and then you have to carefully go over what may have been missed, or what may be inappropriate for your needs. This thread is for Panasonic Tip and Tricks ... help for Panasonic users ... let's not muck it up with "my machine is better than your machine" or "my machine is the bestest ever" posts. Save that for elsewhere. | ||||||||
| oldfart13 posted 2005 Feb 26 00:44 | ||||||||
| Oh, I dunno but Vferrari seems to be held in high regard even by certain members of this board and he is a big Panny booster. The Chinese decks will have to get cheaper now that Wal-Mart wants sub $100USD units by next year. I don't even want to think of the build quality on those units... | ||||||||
| zorankarapancev posted 2005 Feb 27 22:36 | ||||||||
| A wonderfully performed test on Panasonic E80H from our member Tom Roper:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=512 ... genumber=2 | ||||||||
| akagi posted 2005 Mar 07 10:47 | ||||||||
| I have a question. I have a Panasonic E55 and use it for capturing purposes for transfer to the PC. I am so pleased with it I am considering getting another. My only beef, though, is that I do all my capturing in XP mode and whilst this produces absolutely superb video the unit will only ever record an hour and nothing more. This is very annoying as when ejecting the disk you can see that not all of the DVD-RAM disk has been used. I know this has been mentioned before with a 4.0GB capacity potentially being artificially cretaed by Panasonic in order to avoid using the very outside of the disk that may not be up to grade but on my disks we are only talking in terms of aopprox 3.38GB being used. Is there anyway round this as I have avery confidence in my Ritek produced disks down to the last byte. If not has anybody petitioned Panasonic over this? It is very frustrating - to record something at an hours length you have to be there in order to start the recorder at exactly the right time and as regards taping a film using the adverts as disk change points this problem creates no end of issues.
Any advice would be appreciated. Even getting 4.0GB of use per disk would be great. | ||||||||
| donpedro posted 2005 Mar 08 10:54 | ||||||||
Hi Zoran, I have quick (maybe not) question for you. While reading your comment I remebered this issue. I am not sure what you ment by "problems playing high bit rates", but I think that issue is not rates but authoring. Here is why... Some time ago I recorded some home video on friends recorder (Panasonic) in XP mode. This DVD was not playable in 2 of my 3 DVD players. I thought that it was disc quality so I tested couple of them. Lets make it short... I solved issue by reauthoring same streams in one (don't remember which one) of the more expensive DVD Authoring programs. What I did is that I extracted streams (audio and video separatly) and authored them again. Which means no conversion, no decreasing bit rates or anything like that. After reauthoring, new DVD played well an all DVD Players. Maybe I am missing something but that is what I found. If you (or anybody else) can reproduse issue with playback, and have ability to reauthor DVD, please try it and let us know your results. Thanks, donpedro | ||||||||
| FulciLives posted 2005 Mar 08 11:32 | ||||||||
I already covered this topic earlier in the thread. It has nothing to do with too high a bitrate. The same thing happens when using SP mode etc. A lot of DVD players just do not like the DVD-R discs that come straight out of the Panasonic stand alone DVD recorders BUT if you re-author with sometihng like say TMGPEnc DVD Author then problem solved. My guess is it has something to do with the file structure aka the finalization phase that Panasonic uses. Maybe the quality of the burn has something to do with it as well. - John "FulciLives" Coleman | ||||||||
| zorankarapancev posted 2005 Mar 09 06:17 | ||||||||
| Interesting topic. From my latest experiences:
- I have noticed that occasional hiccups also occur from the SONY GX-7 DVD recordings (XP mode) on the same el-cheapo players. That means some DA processors used in the budget class players can’t handle high-bit data streams. - Panasonic has the highest bit-rate of recording from any available DVD recorder today, therefore we should expect more problems from the recordings done from the machines of this brand. It is ineteresting to note that every recording that I have done in the XP mode with the Panasonic DVD recorder is problematic on Malata and Daytek but every SP recording is just fine. - Some players definitely have problem with DVD discs that don’t include an AUDIO_TS folder. Panasonic recordings, unfortunately, come out without this folder. With every re-authoring the missing AUDIO_TS folder is automatically added. - Just yesterday I have tested a Panasonic DVD disc (done in SP mode) on my new JVC XV-N312 player. I couldn’t believe when I saw the picture stuttering and freezing every couple of seconds! I have never ever seen anything like that in my life. The disc was Maxell 4X( re-branded Ritek G04 - bought as a 100 pcs. spindle from Future Shop) . The same disc was playing beautifully on the cheap Malata and Daytek and on a JVC XV-N44 and Pioneer DV340! Next, I made a clone of that disc using my DVD copy tower (it didn’t add or subtract anything to the original recording). This clone was playing perfectly on the JVC XV-N312 player! The blanc disc I was using this time was Ridata 4X (again Ritek G04 !). When I tried another recording on this player, done on Ridata 8X, it didn’t recognize the media at all and it wouldn’t play it no matter what! This leads me to conclude that the problem is more complex than we thought and it definitely contains three major variables: 1. The quality of the players DA converter 2. High – bit recording 3. The compatibility of the DVD media I only hope that with the introduction of the new DVD recorders and players (not only from Panasonic) and with better quality DVD media this problem will gradually disappear in the future. | ||||||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 Mar 09 06:23 | ||||||||
Ummm.... no. With few exceptions, most recorders go up to 10.08 max combined bitrate. If anything, because the Panasonic is known to not use the full 4.25GB+ of disc space (after VR formatting), it would actually be one of the few machines on the open market that uses LESS BITRATE than normal. I mentioned this some posts back. This is an issue to watch for and be aware of, and sadly there is not "trick" or "tip" to fix this, aside from using a hard drive, and the fact that some of the models do not share this problem on RAM discs. As others have suggested, you cannot blame DVD players for this issue, as it is easily corrected by re-authoring the streams. It is most likely some sort of authoring error, and more likely just another flaw of DVD-VR sub-specs for DVD-Video. Maybe not even the fault of the Panasonic necessarily. I have heard about this on other recorders. | ||||||||
| gshelley61 posted 2005 Mar 09 07:30 | ||||||||
| Actually, I think the Sony 900 model has the highest encoding bitrate to it's HDD when you use the HQ+ mode... 15Mbps! It then transcodes to a lower compliant bitrate when you transfer from the HDD to DVD. | ||||||||
| donpedro posted 2005 Mar 09 09:24 | ||||||||
Sorry ... I missed it... I have been working on this long time ago and posted results in this thread... http://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=175473&postday ... mp;start=0 | ||||||||
| donpedro posted 2005 Mar 09 09:31 | ||||||||
Based on the others replies and my test that was done long time ago I would have to partialy disagree. Yes... those points affect result, but there is something that will make DVD uplayable and it is not quality of media, bit-rate, media compatibility, missing AUDIO_TS or any of usually blamed things. | ||||||||
| zorankarapancev posted 2005 Mar 09 17:26 | ||||||||
| Donpedro,
I don’t know the definite answer for this problem. Like all of you here, I am trying to find out what is going wrong with some of the DVD recordings, not only from the Panasonic recorders (while maybe it is more evident with this brand), but also from the other manufacturers too (see one of the newest posts: http://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=260872) - If it has nothing to do with the high bit-rate and the player’s DA converter, then how will we explain the problems that occur only with the XP recordings and not with the SP recordings (I can refer, at least, to el-cheapo players that I have tested)? If the recording is the same and only the bit-rate is different, isn’t it obvious that we have a problem with the bit-rate? - If it has nothing to do with the media compatibility, then how will we explain the fact that the same recording on one DVD disc is problematic and it is fine on another one? Isn’t it obvious that we have a problem with the DVD media too? - If, regardless of the recording speed, some players are not playing the discs without the AUDIO_TS folder, but are very happy with that folder included in the recording, isn’t that an obvious point that this folder is also one of the factors that has to be considered as relevant? You are very much certain that something else makes the DVD’s unplayable and you suspect that this is probably connected somehow with the authoring software. Maybe you are right, but that does not exclude the relevance of the facts I have mentioned before. Also, we should remind our selves that the authoring software in the DVD recorders is embedded in the hardware (chipsets) produced from a handful of companies. These “hardware/software bundles” are used from all of the manufacturers of DVD recorders and if there is an authoring problem it should be equally evident in different brands of these machines. Frankly, I don’t know which chipset is used by Panasonic (or Sony, for that matter) and therefore I can’t question or blame any manufacturer for the problem we discus here. Maybe somebody who is working in the Panasonic service department can help us… | ||||||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 Mar 09 17:33 | ||||||||
Panasonic = Panasonic (in-house) Sony =Cirrus (newest models), and either Zoran or Sony (in-house) for older models. But those are encoder chipsets. The chipsets have nothing to do with authoring. Authoring is handled by motherboard firmware. | ||||||||
| FulciLives posted 2005 Mar 09 19:11 | ||||||||
| When I said that I had trouble with playback using my two DVD players what I mean, specifically, is that the DVD-R discs WILL play but only with "defects".
They play for a bit ... freeze up ... the counter keeps going ... then they start playing again ... freeze up ... etc. If the problem was as simple as a lack of AUDIO_TS folder then wouldn't they NOT play at all? In other words the problem I think is "deeper" than just a missing AUDIO_TS folder. This has happened with ALL of the DVD-R discs I have tried that have come from the Panny DVD recorders be it XP or SP or FR etc. Again, when I re-author with TMPGEnc DVD Author (which does no re-encoding) the new DVD-R I burn plays just fine. - John "FulciLives" Coleman | ||||||||
| zorankarapancev posted 2005 Mar 09 20:37 | ||||||||
| FulciLives,
I understand you completely:
You have problems with ALL of the DVD-R discs from ANY brand, with ANY Panasonic DVD recorder at ANY speed. While this is almost hard to believe I don’t have any intention to dispute your findings with such extreme results. It is very clear to me that you have researched this problem thoroughly and have exhausted any other option, but the encoding. I never said that encoding is out of the question as one of the suspects (I have always been open to any suggestions), but my findings, so far, don’t conclusively suggest that notion as an only answer to this problem... In all your posts you strongly claim that this problem has nothing to do with the players, recording speeds and the blanc media and yet, you are not giving me even a hint as to a possible answer to my questions: - If it has nothing to do with the high bit-rate and the player’s DA converter, then how will you explain the problems that occur only with the XP recordings and not with the SP recordings with, at list, some of the DVD players? - If it has nothing to do with the media compatibility, then how will you explain the fact that the same recording on one brand of DVD disc is problematic and it is fine on another one? Again, I don’t know the definite answer to this problem that frustrates me as much as anybody else, but there are certain findings that can be easily verified and therefore must be taken seriously and not be ignored. That will be of no help to anyone who seeks advice and answers on our forum. | ||||||||
| donpedro posted 2005 Mar 10 05:32 | ||||||||
| Let me try to recapitulate what I think. All of those findings that you are talking about are true. All of them affects if DVD is playable or not. But… I would add one more and that is way how DVD was authored. If you checked my old post you would see that these are testings that I did.
Recorder : Panasonic DMR-E30 Player : Daewoo DVD-5800 DVD was recorded in SP mode from VCR and lenght is 1h 17min Tests that were done to identify issue. 1. it is not media => burned copy of commercial DVD to same media on PC => result PLAYABLE 2. it is not media => I ripped DVD to PC and burned it on PC to good quality branded DVD => result FREEZING 3. it is authoring => I stripped video and audio stream on PC and reauthored it again => result PLAYABLE 4. it is not AUDIO_TS => I added that folder during test 2 => result FREEZING ways how people fixed same isue 1. editing and adding menu in DVD Workshop (not clear since reencoding may be involved) 2. using DVD Shrink to reauthor. (If I understand it right… if source can fit on DVD there is no “shrinking” only reauthoring. 3. reauthoring with TMPGEnc DVD Author (no re-encodig) I know that my testing was not covering 100% of possibilities but it is pointing to exact issue. Let's keep this discussion open and readers can decide how to solve it for them. ;-) | ||||||||
| NamPla posted 2005 Mar 10 07:34 | ||||||||
| I was like, OK yeah JVC, then OK panasonic, then, OK JVC again, then yeah mate Pioneer, then JVC, then Panasonic again... oh and Lite-On seems to be in there somewhere...
You know what? Panasonic wins. I'll tell you why. I like "Panasonic". It rules. And I see in this forum tests that shit over GShelley's (who I greatly respect) tests. His tests results are different to other results. Who do we believe (ie the consumer)? Zorankopavovich or Gshelley or LordSmurf or the Delay Lama??????? | ||||||||
| zorankarapancev posted 2005 Mar 10 23:46 | ||||||||
| Today, with some big help of a few good friends, I have a chance to try DVD recordings from the Panasonic E60 on a different DVD players ( JVC, Panasonic, Pioneer, Hitachi, Sony, Toshiba, Malata, Daytek, Acura, Nova). The goal of the test was to find out if there is any specific correlation between recording speeds and different brands of DVD players.
The result from the test bench is this: - Recordings done with the SP setting were fine on all players. - Recordings done with the XP setting were more or less problematic for some of the players. We noticed occasional stuttering and frizzing of the picture. The most interesting finding was that these problems came out only from the budget brands of DVD players - from the brands well known of cutting every corner in their production in order to lower the price of their products. We didn’t notice ANY problem from the well-established and reputable manufacturers - JVC, Sony, Toshiba, Panasonic, Hitachi and Pioneer. Not a hitch even from their basic DVD players. So, what does this mean my friends? If the encoding is bad, why is it good for some well-known brands of DVD players and not for others? If it is really bad, shouldn’t it be bad for any DVD player from any manufacturer? The result of this test clearly shows that the recordings cause problems only when played on the cheapest brands of DVD players! That is the fact my fellows. Now, what can we do in order to alleviate this problem when we face the same challenge with our equipment? If you like to keep your DVD recorder and you want to stick with the questionable player that you already own, then: - Always record in SP and FR (for the recordings over 2Hrs) mode. - Test several different brands of blanc DVD discs and use those ones that are most compatible for your system. If you find out that this advice doesn’t work for you, then you have another option: - Re-author the disc. From other people’s experiences this should be the best solution. If you find that this advice for some reason (too complicated, takes time…) is not for you, then you have one final option: - Either you have to buy another DVD recorder or a better DVD player. For me, this case is closed. The problem is verified and the tips are given. I am sure that we can’t affect every manufacturer in the world to make more advanced DVD players, or to press any manufacturer of DVD recorders to make their models compatible to any player designed on Earth. What I can definitely do is to remind myself of an old wise saying: I am not rich enough to buy cheap staff! Anyway, I am sure that with the introduction of the new DVD recorders and players, as well as with the better quality DVD media, this problem will gradually disappear in the future. | ||||||||
| donpedro posted 2005 Mar 11 04:01 | ||||||||
I must agree with your last post with one explanation.... Sometimes it is not about buying cheap staff, but about buying player that does what you need. Unfortunately any of big names do not make DVD Player that can be used in 110V/NTSC and 220V/PAL world. Which was reason why I bought Daewoo DVD-5800. I used it for 2 years in US and now in EU. Same goes for DVD Recorders.... only cheap Recorders do that :( and I don't think that it would be too dificult or expensive for big names to implement it too. But they have their resons, right ? ;-) | ||||||||
| FulciLives posted 2005 Mar 11 09:55 | ||||||||
| Another point on the "cheap stuff" argument ...
My Pioneer cost me $725 It is a "very old" model now but it still performs very well (age is really not showing). It can play DVD-R discs I make with my computer without any issues what-so-ever BUT it doesn't like Panny stand alone DVD recorder discs UNLESS they have been re-authored (in my case TMPGEnc DVD Author). So to me the problem is clearly the Panny and NOT my DVD player. This issue is perhaps less important to the original "end-user" of a Panny stand alone DVD recorder. You can just use the Panny as your play back device or buy a standard DVD player that "likes" the discs. But remember some people like to share such DVD discs such as camcorder footage of loved ones ... some people use it in making DVD discs for business such as wedding videos etc. so the Panny's "out of spec" discs are still a BIG concern if you ask me. At least it does seem that playback issues can be solved with re-authoring and this can be done rather easily and quickly with something like TMPGEnc DVD Author so in that regard ... maybe it isn't such a BIG deal. However it surely is not "ideal". - John "FulciLives" Coleman | ||||||||
| zorankarapancev posted 2005 Mar 11 17:49 | ||||||||
| @ Donpedro
In the world of international trade, there are many standards, rules and regulations to be followed. In order to avoid paying royalties, as well as to offer unique products, the “cheap” companies do no play by the internationally excepted regulations. They even take pride of that fact, as we all know very well. They modified the standardized software and hardware up to the point that they can legally claim it its different enough from the originally copyrighted designs, in order to avoid paying royalties. Unfortunately we, as the users of those products, are the ones that are often paying the ultimate price. I also own a cheap Malata and a Daytek player (PAL/NTSC) that come “bundled” with the same playing issues, but I expect the fact that something is eventually going to give in the future. I don’t blame the manufacturers of the DVD recorders for my inconveniences of playing burned DVD discs on those questionable players. Since I have experienced the low playback quality of the above mentioned players, I had spent my time looking for better options of playing PAL/NTSC discs. In respect of the notion that big names do not make DVD Player that can be used in 110V/NTSC and 220V/PAL world, I am happy to inform you that with a little research I found that the JVC models XV-N44 and XV-N312 are an excellent PAL players. I bought them and I can assure you that they are doing better than Malata and Daytek, and on top of it, I don’t have any problem playing Panasonic’s XP recordings. Even if you need region free players from reputable manufacturers, you can find several places on the Internet that are selling them. Sure, they are more expensive than the Chinese counterparts, but…you are getting what you paid for. @ FulciLives Now I understand why you have problems with ALL of the DVD-R discs from ANY brand, with ANY Panasonic DVD recorder at ANY speed. You have an older model of a DVD player that is not FULLY compliant to the International standards for burned DVD’s. The fact that it still performs very well playing some DVD’s, doesn’t prove that it is up to the newest International standards. It is a well documented fact that the older models of DVD players have an issue with DVD-R/+R discs and I am 100% positive that you have the same problem with some other brands of DVD recorders too, not ONLY with Panasonic. I sympathized with you about the people who like to share DVD discs with their friends and relatives who own the old non-compliant DVD players like you. They are not properly informed about this technology and therefore are paying the ultimate price. I am using a Panasonic DVD recorder for my business, as do many other professionals, without any problem (following the tips and tricks explained in the beginning of this thread) and as I have stated before, the Panasonic is not “out of spec” as you want to believe. Therefore, if it is not a BIG concern to professionals, now that we have discussed this issue in detail, I am sure that it will not be a BIG concern for you too. At least, the mystery is finally solved with your player … and I have definitely agree with your last words. Yes, there is no “ideal” product on the market, especially in this, still emerging, DVD technology. We have to live with whatever we have or whatever is offered to us... because that is the reality of our lives… P.S. I really love and appreciate your posts in “PAL -> NTSC using BeSweetGUI” thread. | ||||||||
| Tom Roper posted 2005 Mar 11 18:56 | ||||||||
When you re-author, aren't you also *re-burning* with a different drive, and a different disk? | ||||||||
| FulciLives posted 2005 Mar 11 19:18 | ||||||||
Of course but the original vidoe and audio are the same i.e., no re-encoding takes place. - John "FulciLives" Coleman | ||||||||
| Tom Roper posted 2005 Mar 11 19:33 | ||||||||
That's great, but what if one burner is laying down the track with 100x more parity errors? Wouldn't you expect the likelihood of playback problems to go with the disk having the worse burn quality? All I'm saying here, is with (2) different burners, you have more variables at play than just the logical authoring. There are the physical variables also. | ||||||||
| FulciLives posted 2005 Mar 11 19:35 | ||||||||
So what are you saying? That the Panny stand alone DVD recorders have piss poor DVD burners or that the 2 different computer based DVD burners I have used are exceptionally error free burn perfect models? - John "FulciLives" Coleman | ||||||||
| Tom Roper posted 2005 Mar 11 23:52 | ||||||||
Although I might have avoided your colorful characterizations, the substance of your remark is possibly quite accurate. Below are a couple of disk quality surface scans I made 2 days ago using the same media I.D., AN31 made in Hong Kong. The first burn was made on my E80h. The second burn was made on my desktop burner. The parity errors made by the E80H are fully 10x greater than those made by the desktop burner. But BOTH disks are within acceptable limits, so it is only illustrative. *ALL* DVD players should be able to play disks that have sum8 parity inner errors below 280, sum1 parity inner fail errors below 5. And any disk with errors below those limits is considered passable, and should be playable in ALL players. But some burners may improve upon those limits by 10x or more, creating a disk that is is more tolerant of fingerprints, scratches, improper storage etc. But when those limits are exceeded, SOME PLAYERS WILL STILL BE ABLE TO PLAY THEM seemingly without problem, where others will begin to experience freezes, skips and stutters. This is the scan of a 1x burn made on media I.D. AN31 on the E80h Panasonic DVDR. It has parity errors more than 10x of the other burner, yet it should still be playable in ALL players. 
The following scan was made on Plextor PX716UF on the same media.  | ||||||||
| Tom Roper posted 2005 Mar 12 00:04 | ||||||||
| A better test to prove or disprove that the playback problems are caused by the authoring and not the burning:
1.) Burn a DVD-R on the Panasonic. 2.) Use a DVD-ROM drive to copy the Panasonic disk image to the PC. 3.) Use a desktop burner to Re-burn the Panasonic-authored disk image to another DVD disk. Compare THAT disk to the one burned on the Panny, or compare it to the one authored with TMPGEnc DVD Author. | ||||||||
| donpedro posted 2005 Mar 13 15:46 | ||||||||
Did you also read my test ? | ||||||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 Mar 13 16:42 | ||||||||
| Using DVD Shrink or TDA (and prior to Shrink/TDA's existance, some rather nasty arcane methods) has been a staple trick for Panasonic owners as far back as I can remember ... mid/late 2002 or so when the standalones were being sold in stores at non-insane prices.
In effect ... re-authoring. This is not new to me at all. Not all of them showed this flaw, but a great many did. People often don't notice because they use the recorder as a player. I get e-mails about this all the time: "My Panasonic discs quit working", etc. Once you get the discs on the drive, especially if you try to edit, you run into AC3 errors, as the Panasonic-generated AC3 streams are often flawed. So there's another tip for you: 1.. If you want to edit the MPEG files, do it on the Panasonic. Or get another recorder if you want to edit on the PC with zero flaws. 2.. If your discs "quit working" then re-author in DVD Shrink or TDA. Merely re-copying to new media will not often fix there, as the error is an authoring flaw. | ||||||||
| Tom Roper posted 2005 Mar 13 18:25 | ||||||||
I read your test(s), but what did you test? You tried things, yes... But the Panasonic authored disk played in 1 of your 3 players. If it was the authoring, why not 0 of 3? Another of your tests was to rip the files from the Panasonic, re-author and burn with another burner. If it was the authoring you wanted to test, you needed to rule out the possibility the second burner was not simply making a more readable disk. In which case you should have copied...not ripped and re-authored because that changed 2 things at once. | ||||||||
| donpedro posted 2005 Mar 14 05:14 | ||||||||
I don't know... but my guess would be that chips used in 2 players can handle something that 1 can't ;-) If I knew answer I would write it down long time ago.
"In which case you should have copied..." I did that.... Ripped DVD from Panasonic to HD on PC and burned it on PC to DVD from same batch as the original. Result was unplayable. That is why I asked you if you read my post. | ||||||||
| Tom Roper posted 2005 Mar 14 12:38 | ||||||||
| Yes donpedro. I read your post(s). Can we talk about the substance?
Which to summarize, you laid out a scenario where two years ago you used a friend's E30 to copy one VHS tape. The DVD you burned did not play on your Daewoo 5800, or one other un-named player but did play on a 3rd. You concluded that the authoring was bad because you were able to get it to play when you re-authored. Above, you postulated the reason why, that it is your guess that the chips used in 2 players can handle something 1 player can't. Meanwhile in one of the threads you linked, shhas stated that a disk burned on his DMR80 would not play in the Daewoo 5800 but did play in 5-6 others. Another poster, bobinga stated that his Daewoo will not play disks burned with his E50, but that he took it to Circuit City where it played well in 3 different players. If you add those observations to your own: 1.) E30/E50/E80 authored disks played well in 10/13 players 2.) E30/E50/E80 authored disks did not play in 3/13 players 3.) Of the 3 named players not playing all were Daewoo 5800! Edit: The above list is not complete. One guy cited an Apex player and another guy cited a portable DVD player as incompatible. Still another guy cited disks burned with his E20 was compatible with both Daewoo 5800 and 5900. Still another guy cites E55 is compatible with Apex. | ||||||||
| Tom Roper posted 2005 Mar 14 13:00 | ||||||||
Anybody check this one out?
| ||||||||
| Tom Roper posted 2005 Mar 14 13:24 | ||||||||
| DVD-Video Verifier...$500
...guess I won't be checking this one out anytime soon | ||||||||
| donpedro posted 2005 Mar 14 15:53 | ||||||||
:-) Some time ago I came to same conclusion... Let me finish our discusion with this... we can't blame all the issues on media quality or compability or high bittrate. There is more to it ;-) | ||||||||
| Tom Roper posted 2005 Mar 14 16:12 | ||||||||
I'm not blaming the issue on anything. I'm not even acknowledging that one exists. | ||||||||
| Tom Roper posted 2005 Mar 15 10:32 | ||||||||
| Folks, with your permission I'd like to retract that last comment, fold my cards and acknowledge that donpedro is right.
I received a private email that offered the assurance I sought to confirm the authoring issue. While I haven't noticed it, most of the disks burned from recordings made with it were in fact re-authored using TMPGEnc DVD Author. | ||||||||
| ann coates posted 2005 Mar 19 00:26 | ||||||||
Is this only the case with the Panasonics or all DVD recorders? Does anyone know if this is true for the Pioneer 520 as well? I ask because I'm using the Panny E85 to dub some videotapes and I do find they simply look better using XP mode. I have the Pioneer 520 as well, but have too much trouble dubbing tapes with it as every so often I get a black out, so I gave up using it for dubs. So how much of an issue is using XP mode when playing the DVDr's on other recorders going to be? I have one Panasonic DVD player and one JVC. Would the XP recorded DVDrs likely play ok on the Panasonic DVD player I have or am I simply asking for trouble using XP mode? | ||||||||
| FulciLives posted 2005 Mar 19 00:58 | ||||||||
As far as I can tell there is no issue with Panasonic XP mode if you re-author on the computer with something like TMPGEnc DVD Author. - John "FulciLives" Coleman | ||||||||
| ann coates posted 2005 Mar 19 01:30 | ||||||||
| The only problem is I don't currently have a PC DVD burner.. | ||||||||
| donpedro posted 2005 Mar 19 04:34 | ||||||||
| If you don't have trouble with XP mode, why do you even bother with this issue ? As soon as you come across that problem, you know now how to fix it. | ||||||||
| ann coates posted 2005 Mar 19 11:13 | ||||||||
| Well, I don't know if I have trouble with XP mode, I've never made a DVDr using it. I just recorded some video dubs to my hard drive using XP mode and they looked quite a bit better than SP mode. That's all I know. As far as now knowing how to fix it, as I said, I don't have a PC burner. | ||||||||
| FulciLives posted 2005 Mar 19 11:26 | ||||||||
Well if you are posting here you have a computer and a PC DVD BURNER is all of $100 ... if not much less these days. So just buy one. - John "FulciLives" Coleman | ||||||||
| ann coates posted 2005 Mar 19 11:40 | ||||||||
So I assume since you're suggesting a PC burner that the answer to my original question is that it's a definite problem playing XP recorded discs on other recorders. ok then, thank you for the reply. | ||||||||
| zorankarapancev posted 2005 Mar 19 12:17 | ||||||||
| ann coates,
I think that we have spent enough time explaining that the XP recording mode CAN be a problem for SOME of the DVD players (budget category). As donpedro said:
You shouldn’t agonize over something that doesn’t affect you at all. On your comment:
There is simple way to find out if you have ANY problem: make ONE DVDr and test it on ALL of your DVD players. P.S. I agree with your statement that the XP mode yields the best PQ. | ||||||||
| ann coates posted 2005 Mar 19 12:49 | ||||||||
Thank you for clarifying this. So it is mainly an issue playing the discs on older (or budget) players then. I wasn't aware the problem presented itself quickly and easily which is why I haven't even tried burning one yet to test it. Anyway, I'll burn a disc in XP mode and see how it goes. None of my players (or my friends for that matter) have any trouble playing the Panny E85 DVDr's I've made in SP mode. Hopefully it will be the same for discs recorded in XP mode. I have 4 DVD players actually (none are budget brands) so I'll find out. :) | ||||||||
| zorankarapancev posted 2005 Jun 26 21:27 | ||||||||
| Finally I got some time to put my hands on the new Panasonic DMR- ES10S.
And now some tips and tricks with for this recorder : 1. To use or not to use an LP mode of recording? If you need to record anything between 2 and 3 hours use FR mode of recording. You will get same SP resolution with less digital artifacts. LP mode is fine for recordings images without fast motions. 2. Be careful with the new DNR recording filter. If you record videotapes with excellent picture quality turn the filter OFF. When the VHS tape has occasional problems, set the filter on AUTO (this would be the most appropriate setting for general recordings). Make the setting ON only with the exceptionally troublesome VHS tapes. 3. Stay away from XP recordings if you want to use those recorded discs in the budget class DVD players. You will get occasional stuttering and even freezing of the picture. Panasonic still uses its proprietary hardware and software, which are well known for this kind of performance. 4. The remote control unit from the previous Panasonic generation DVD recorders also works with the new models in full capacity and without any problem. // crosspost "review" has been removed .. do not cross post // http://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=272629 // only the tips and tricks have been left intact // - moderator lordsmurf | ||||||||
| zorankarapancev posted 2005 Sep 03 19:09 | ||||||||
| If you have the PAL version of the Panasonic DMR-ES10 recorder you can change PAL-NTSC recording systems if you wish. Select factory PAL preset when connecting to PAL or Multi-system TV screen and when you want to record from PAL equipment. At this setting, programs recorded from NTSC equipment will play as PAL 60. Select NTSC if you want to record from NTSC source (VHS or DVD players) and when you are connected to an NTSC TV set.
Instruction for changing PAL to NTSC system: 1. While the recorder is stopped press "FUNCTIONS". 2. Press “UP/DOWN” symbols to select “TO OTHERS” and press “ENTER”. 3. Press “UP/DOWN” to select “SETUP” and press “ENTER”. 4. Press “UP/DOWN” to select “CONNECTION” and press “>” (“RIGHT”). 5. Press “UP/DOWN” to select “TV SYSTEM” and press “ENTER”. 6. Press “UP/DOWN” to select the TV system and press “ENTER”. 7. Press “<” , “>” (“LEFT”, “RIGHT”) to select “YES” and press “ENTER”. 8. To exit the screen press “RETURN” several times. Another simpler way to change PAL to NTSC setting: - While the machine is stopped, press and hold “STOP” and “OPEN/CLOSE” buttons on the main unit at the same time for about 5 seconds. People who travel around the world or are in the business of dubbing and converting VHS tapes and DVD’s may find this option useful. Unfortunately, for some reason it is not available in the NTSC version of this recorder sold in North America. | ||||||||
| ofbarea posted 2005 Oct 21 21:11 | ||||||||
| This feature is also available in the version sold in Latin America. | ||||||||
| ricoman posted 2005 Nov 05 19:08 | ||||||||
| zorankarapancev: I read your post on setting the HYBRID VBR RESOLUTION to fixed for the E60, can this be done on the ES10? I can't find the setting. Also, can bitsetting or booktype be reset for the +R media to DVD-Rom so that it will play on my friend's standoalone? | ||||||||
| zorankarapancev posted 2005 Nov 07 16:20 | ||||||||
No.
No. What is the brand of the player and what is his problem? | ||||||||
| ricoman posted 2005 Nov 07 17:57 | ||||||||
| I'm not sure what the brand is, it's an older model and won't play +R media unless I set the booktype to DVD-Rom. Unfortunately (for him), most of my media is +R (my preference). +R media won't play on my work computer either, a year old Dell with some kind of NEC DVD combo drive. | ||||||||
| ricoman posted 2005 Nov 26 15:52 | ||||||||
| The ES10 apparently automatically sets the booktype of +R media to DVD-Rom and plays on all the computers and standalones that I mentioned. Nice feature. | ||||||||
| hitechluddite posted 2005 Nov 27 12:31 | ||||||||
| Zoran, Great tips! Since this thread was started before the Dmreh-50S came out I wonder how much of the information you & others posted apply to this newer model. | ||||||||
| zorankarapancev posted 2005 Nov 28 18:52 | ||||||||
| Some of the posted information is still relevant for the newer models.
Since you are asking for tips on the newer models, I hope you will find the information helpful on the next post. | ||||||||
| zorankarapancev posted 2005 Nov 28 18:55 | ||||||||
| Some tips for the new generation of the Panasonic DVD recorders:
1. Some users of the EH50 model report that now they can record up to 2hrs and 9 min. on a DVD-RW/R in SP mode. 2. Pressing the “Stop” button while you record the program doesn’t give the immediate response. It has a delay of about a second. You will have better results if you first press “Pause” and then “Stop”. 3. Don’t leave the disc in the recorder. In a situation of a power outage or unplugging the unit, with the next plugging in, the recorder will keep on checking for very long time before it will allow you to use it. 4. If you don’t have a cable feed or antenna connected to your DVD recorder, every time you turn on the unit, the Setup screen will ask you to select the language, going immediately afterwards with the channel scan. It is very annoying, indeed, but there are very simple solutions to this problem: - Instead of the “Power”, always use the “Open/Close” button. - If you prefer to use the “Power” button, then press the “Return” button when the Setup appears on the screen. 5. The Panasonic EH50 will allow you to mark chapters while recording other programs, as well as while playing back when it is still recording. After you start with the recording, press “Play” on the remote and you will go to chasing play mode. Now you can pause and mark chapters pressing the “Chapter Mark” while the recording of the program is in progress. 6. The recorder will remember where you stopped the playback of the disc and will resume from that point. What do you do if you want to start watching the movie from the beginning? There is an easy solution – press the “Stop” button again. This will erase the memory and will allow you to watch the program from the beginning. Sometimes people start playback from the Navigator and when they press “Stop” it will bring them back to the Navigator screen. In this situation it is necessary to press “Return” and then “Stop”. The next step to start playing program from the beginning is to press the “Play” button. 7. What is the best way to dub the program from the HDD to DVD disc: high speed or FR? Dubbing to a disc with FR is “Real Time” dubbing that involves re-encoding of the program resulting with loss of chapter information and compromised picture quality. Recording at XP mode to the HDD and doing an FR dub will result with the worse picture quality than recording at SP and dubbing at high speed. For the best PQ avoid double encoding - use HS dubbing. | ||||||||
| hitechluddite posted 2005 Nov 29 20:40 | ||||||||
| Thanks Zoran, It's really a help to have someone who is so intimate with a product line.... I am looking hard at the JVC dr-MX1S now. It's about $100 more than the Drme 50hs but also has a Prgogrssive scan VCR. The owners manual also shows the ability to program some SAT-TV boxes. I have a message into panasonic cust support on that question since they say nothing about it in the manual.... | ||||||||
| Eferal posted 2005 Dec 14 08:15 | ||||||||
| Hi. I am new in the forum. I am from Spain, so, please, pardon my english!
I have the DMR-EH60 (I think is the same that EH50 with different HD). Thanks, Zoran, for the tips. Could you say anything about the setup? Enrique | ||||||||
| zorankarapancev posted 2005 Dec 14 20:47 | ||||||||
| Eferal
This time Panasonic did everything to fine-tune its new generation of DVD recorders for the North American market and I believe the same is done for the other markets too. Therefore there is not much to tweak and adjust on these new machines. On the recording side, the only option is the selection of the Line-in NR. This filter will affect only analog inputs and I suggest that you leave it on “Automatic” position. If you dub the highest quality analog signals (Betacam SP or analog output from DVCam) you can switch it to “Off” because you need the purest possible path of the incoming signal. I found that if this setting is left on the “On” position, it could have an adverse effect on some recorded footage. On the output side, you have more choices for adjusting the picture quality so choose them in any way that will please you the most. | ||||||||
| Sierras posted 2006 Feb 20 22:56 | ||||||||
I just purchased an EH50. Does your statement mean that we should forget about all the settings outlined in the biggining of this post for these newer units and go with the defaults? Also, I don't seem to have a HYBRID VBR RESOLUTION setting on my DMR-EH50. One other thing, I've just got into transferring my Hi8 tapes to DVD using a standalone unit. I used to do it through the computer, but thought this would be a lot easier as I have a lot of tapes accumulating. The thing is, the user guide is not very user friendly and really only shows the functions of the unit and not really HOW to do as a step-by-step tutorial. I've already burned two useless DVDs in trying to transfer one of my tapes (one with no chapters and another with chapters but no thumbnails on the main screen) I'll probably burn a few more coasters before I get it right. I was hoping that someone may post a HOW TO procedure on going from a camcorder, to the HDD, edit the recording, create chapters, playlist (I missed that one on my first burn) and then finally burn to DVD. Thanks | ||||||||
| zedinosk posted 2006 Mar 07 08:15 | ||||||||
| problem solved | ||||||||
| Captain Satellite posted 2006 Mar 07 14:51 | ||||||||
| Any tips ot tricks on getting a a disc to eject? This was MY mistake. I had a disc sitting by the computer that wouldn't show up on my drive. Thinking that it might have been an unfinalized disc that I mistakingly brought over, I put it in. Well, now it won't eject. I tried the stop button and channel down button already, no workie. Any ideas would be great, I'll give it about a day then I'm buying another one.
EDIT: Sratch that, I got it - yay me. | ||||||||
| altin21 posted 2006 May 09 02:52 | ||||||||
| Hello!
good Job here. I have a DMR-E60. i have use it for 2 years in my studio every day. quality product. Now i think it's time to change the optical laser because when i put a blank dvd it says NO DISC. i had clean it, but now i must change it. Any way how to buy a new one, because i live in Albania, and here not a panasonic center. I need the number or code of this product (Laser) may be like TCxxxxyyy because i don't have the old laser to look for this number on it. thank you. i had buy the dvd recorder in usa, and a friend of mine can buy there the laser but he wants the number of this part. thank you all of you good job hellos from tirana | ||||||||
| kitty posted 2006 May 09 11:15 | ||||||||
| I believe the latest crop of Panasonic recorders (15, 35, 45, 75) have additional features, different bugs, etc. than the older models mentioned. | ||||||||
| adamspage2 posted 2006 Jun 13 17:46 | ||||||||
| Just wanted to ask do these setting apply to the E20 pan or just this e60 | ||||||||
| MeekloBraca posted 2006 Jul 16 12:45 | ||||||||
| Heres a question. Is there a way to fix these things to where it will use the whole disc. I have the Es25 and that really bugs me. | ||||||||
| nohohon posted 2006 Jul 18 16:53 | ||||||||
| Zoran,
I have the 75v. My primary purpose is to convert my VHS tapes to DVD. After recording to the HDD, I burned the title onto the +RW and then use TMPGEnc to remove the extras. I noticed there are 2 video files. I also use DVD Shrink and confirmed that the two files are identical (title 1,3). However, the original +RW and edited version have significant volume (audio) dropped. It is almost like half the volume when played on other DVD players and on computer. When play on the unit itself, it is only somewhat louder but it is still significantly lower. I tried to set the Hybrid VBR Resolution to fixed but this feature does not appeared to be on the 75v. Do you know what went wrong? As far as some of the pervious posts on burning the entire disk. It appeared that this unit also will not use the entire disc. The most I can get is almost 4.1 Gb. This is on 2 hours and 23 minutes in FR mode. I get nearly the same for 1 hour and 38 minutes of recording in FR mode. So it seems the unit will leave some spaces. | ||||||||
| MissIrisM posted 2007 Mar 03 09:38 | ||||||||
| Zoran, I just wanted to write to say that even those of us who don't (yet) have Panasonic are learning useful things from your first post outline of settings! My Samsung has an XP setting, and I have encountered the oddity of putting a finalized DVD-R (which supposedly makes it DVD-video) into my five year old JVC player and having the playback in super-slow motion. I didn't think I used XP to record the Kennedy Center show, but now I don't know! I have used it before. Anyway, what you write about XP may well apply to other machines and computers! So I wanted to thank you for that information.
As you're obviously well-versed in Panasonic, I wondered what your general view of combo units are, as opposed to separate components? I've got an eye toward the unit with the Hard disk but that half-a-grand price tag is daunting. They did have one without the VCR called the EH55S and people were complaining about the TVGOS and seemed to have complained it out of existence. Are these good reliable units? Also, any idea when black machines will come back? I hate to sound like such a "girl", but I really don't like all the silver! I appreciate all the information. Thanks again. | ||||||||
| zzyzzx posted 2007 Apr 13 09:19 | ||||||||
| This thread does help, but might need some updating now that Panasonic has come out with new DVD recorders with ATSC tuners. Specifically DMR-EZ17K, DMR-EZ27K, DMR-EZ37K, and DMR-EZ47K. | ||||||||
| RonC posted 2007 Jul 27 10:13 | ||||||||
| Read your post and thought you really know about Panasonic DVD recprders.
Ihave an DMR80H which I dearly love. Bought five for Christmas presents for my five married children. I now have cable TV and can not figure out how to set up the recording program to record channels above 99. The program will not accept a three digit number. Do I have it wired wrong? Any help would be greatly appreciated. RonC | ||||||||
| FulciLives posted 2007 Jul 27 16:48 | ||||||||
The tuner built-in can only tune in analog channels which typically are channels under 100 on most cable TV systems. To get the "higher" channels you need to use a cable box to do the tuning and input that into one of the inputs on the DVD recorder. It works best if you have one cable box for the TV and one for the DVD recorder ... that way you can watch one channel while recording another. Most cable companies will give you a 2nd cable box for $5.00 to $10.00 extra per month. - John "FulciLives" Coleman | ||||||||
| Unikfreak posted 2007 Sep 18 02:13 | ||||||||
| Although this post is 2 1/2 years old, I guess it's never too late to say thank you. I'll try those settings as soon as I get my ES46V. | ||||||||
| hearmihearmi posted 2007 Sep 23 00:34 | ||||||||
| Ok, I am not new to DVD players.... But a friend has a Panasonic DMR EH55. The manual says it is divx compatible, so I Burned some movie files to dvd using Nero 7.10 Burning Rom, udf. the unit gives an error unsupp on the unit, I have tried burning at 8x and 4x using both DVD-R and DVD+R disks. I have authored dvd's for him using the same media with convertxtodvd no problems. I have burnt these same files and played them without problem on my 2 Philips players and another friends LG.
Panasonic's customer support is telling me I have to register Divx VOD to get it to work, I'm sorry I think that is pure BS, I even read them from the manual that Divx from PC and Divx/VOD are two different issues. Any Suggestions? | ||||||||
| FulciLives posted 2007 Sep 23 03:25 | ||||||||
| Try burning with another program ... I suggest ImgBurn which is freeware.
Also try one DVD-R and one CD-R and see if one vs the other works. I've heard some MPEG-4 capable DVD players can only handle MPEG-4 on CD-R discs although I would be surprised if the Panasonic was limited in that way. More likely it is the burning program at fault. - John "FulciLives" Coleman | ||||||||
| BrokenOne posted 2008 Feb 05 23:13 | ||||||||
| zorankarapancev, thanks for your tips. I am due to get a new dvd recorder and seeing your experience makes me want to consider getting a panasonic, maybe the unit you use. Thanks once again for your knowledge and tips. | ||||||||
| kennywally posted 2008 Sep 27 14:43 | ||||||||
| great tips about the settings
I'll try that out on the two I have E95 and E100 Both my machines sat in their boxes for quite some time because I found the instructions to be confusing. There was quite a lot of info to absorb. And I even tried BEST BUY to get a sales person to show me, but they didn't have a clue either....so I didn't feel too bad about failing to comprehend the manual. I think panasonic screwed up by not enclosing a short how-to video, to help folks get going. Because once I called panasonic and the guy walked me thru a cpl sticking points, I was off to the races!!! lol Anyways, I've been keeping my eyes open for either a pioneer or panasonic with an HD tuner, because after february, I'll only be able to record 1 channel off a converter box at a time. But I haven't seen any with the HD tuner!!! I'm surprised or am I just missing seeing the HD tuner in the spec? | ||||||||
| jjeff posted 2008 Oct 01 16:07 | ||||||||
| None have a HD tuner. The DVDRs with a digital tuner downconvert the HD to SD and then record that.
If you meant the, the ability to tune to a HD channel, then any of the Panasonic EZ series machines will do that. Pioneer does not import a DVDR with a digital tuner. The only Pios available would have a analog tuner and are available in Canada. I believe their is one cecb that has a manual timer to change channels by itself, the Zinwell's Zat-790a. Since the new DVDRs are rather unreliable I'd suggest using your old one with a converter box anyway. It's what I'm currently doing and get great results. | ||||||||
| kennywally posted 2008 Oct 01 18:12 | ||||||||
| yeah, that's what I meant, the ability to receive broadcast hd signal
and I'm doing the same thing with my panasonic | ||||||||
| ianmaciain posted 2008 Oct 24 18:30 | ||||||||
| To Zoran, or anyone else, please......
I've really enjoyed the Panasonic DMR-E80H and gotten lots of hours of enjoyment, but the disc tray is sticky. Sometimes it won't open at all. Other times I have to his the button a few times and it opens. Do you have any suggestions? | ||||||||
| kennywally posted 2008 Oct 31 21:13 | ||||||||
| ianmaciain,
sounds like the button has worn contacts inside. or it could be a sticky relay, but I've never opened one of these up. I'm sure somebody somewhere is familiar with that, you may try a vcr shop etc. ask questions, sometimes they'll help with suggestions. I have an e95 and an e100 so, I'd be interested in knowing that myself. | ||||||||
| midnightman posted 2009 Jun 14 05:19 | ||||||||
| Hi everyone,
I have a Panasonic DMR-EH60. Recently while playing with the remote control, I have set the main unit for ''Remote DVD2'' and the remote control do not communicate with the main unit. I did everything step by step in the users manuel. I can not bring the settings to the original ''DVD1'' Is there anybody there to setup the unit or remote to speak to each other again? Or is there anyway to set the unit to factory settings from the main unit rather than the remote control? Thanks as an advance | ||||||||
| DeXeSs posted 2009 Jul 09 18:22 | ||||||||
| I'm sure this applies to a very small minority but if you are using any of the Sima devices (I know, I'm saying up for an AV toolbox) to disable macrovision errors, I suggest changing the composite/s-video setting to LIGHTER on your Panasonic and setting the Sima to the DARK. On Panasonic Darker and Sima Normal, the picture is too bright, just changing the Sima is too dark.
The settings I described aren't quite as bright as normal but it's much less noticeable if you're doing this for a friend (for free). Summary for Sima & Panasonic DVD Recorder Sima: DARK Panasonic Composite/S-Vid: LIGHTER Equipment Tested: Sima CT-200 Panasonic DMR-ES36 Disclaimer: Definitely not a "pro" option. |
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