Forum Archive Home -> Advanced Video Conversion -> PAL to NTSC, NTSC to PAL framerate conversion?
| PAL to NTSC, NTSC to PAL framerate conversion? | ||||||
| Baldrick posted 2004 Jul 02 07:33 | ||||||
| Buy a TV that supports both TV Systems(NTSC and PAL) :) . Or buy a cheap DVD Player that can convert to your TV System.
If you really want to convert do some searching, Framerate conversions guides Search for PAL to NTSC on our site Search for NTSC to PAL on our site Search for PAL to NTSC on WWW Search for NTSC to PAL on WWW | ||||||
| Bubblevision posted 2005 Jan 31 06:33 | ||||||
| I've been around the houses with PAL AVI > NTSC MPEG2 conversion for DVD and basically Procoder does just about the best job unless you want to fork out to get it done by someone who's running an Alchemist hardware converter. I've heard rumours about combinations such as After Effects with Twixtor being better though, and I'm always open to suggestions, because the conversion is still a bit steppy during scenes with a lot of lateral motion. | ||||||
| nbarzgar posted 2005 Mar 29 14:01 | ||||||
| I am not quite sure, if this is the right place, but here is what I did anyway, for anybody to try, if faced with the same problem:
I had to capture NTSC vhs for making a DVD of it, BUT I am in PAL-land. My VCR puts out NTSC as "PAL_60"-format, seems that is the usual procedure over here. Now setting up the software and capturing was no problem (looked around the forum etc. a lot), but the resulting file lacked color, looked as if bleached, ALMOST b/w. I first set out to convert to PAL, but any attempt at encoding failed, since the video looked dreadful and the audio was not anywhere near being in synch, although I followed the guides... Since I know by this time a few things about AviSynth, wrote a script for color enhancement and the like, encoded with CCE (2.67), used BeSweet for audio encoding - after audio-extraction with VirtualDubMod - and ended up with video and audio badly out of synch! The original PCM wav was in synch, the mp2 file wasn't. I tried about every encoder out there, Canopus Procoder, CCE (s.a.), TMPG, WinAvi (v. 5.8 and 6), but only Canopus produced some reasonable results. Still: The video was sometimes crappy, often with little stops in it. I went on to stay with NTSC-format, since most DVD-players 'know' it, yet although picture quality greatly improved, sound still was not in synch. To cut a long story short: it took me 8 days, almost tearing my hair out by the roots :cry: and then a sudden glimpse of the sun...8) In Womble mpeg I got the frame-number of audio and video file, they were slightly different. I opened the audio with Adobe Audition (since am told, Goldwave has similar function) and got it to "stretch" the audio to the exact frame-number the video had got, telling it to keep the tone pitch. Actually this is no real "stretching", but I am translating from german, the effect in Audition is called that. The only thing to look out for: I usually encode wav to mp2 for my capture-DVDs, AC3 not giving any better results, mp2 saving space, but every time I transcoded (BeSweet), it was again out of synch! Even though the wav had not been. So I kept it as wav for DVD-encoding. At last video and audio perfectly in synch, picture quality great (as vhs source comes at all) and the DVD is now NTSC-format. | ||||||
| Thumper Strauss posted 2005 Apr 18 15:21 | ||||||
| I spent all weekend trying to convert interlaced PAL to interlaced NTSC without the jittery thing happening during lots of movement.
In the end, I connected by mini-DV camcorder to my Phillips DVD player and recorded the video to MiniDV tape. Then I transfered this new 29.97fps video to my PC, converted back to MPEG-2 in TMPGEnc and I it worked perfectly. No jittery video. But I wish I didn't have to do that roundabout method. What setting am I supposed to use to avoid that? I know that's a broad question because there are so many software choices, but if you tell me to use, say, DVD2AVI or VirtualDUB with AVIsynth, I'll do it! I tried all those and could never avoid the jitter. Help! | ||||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 Aug 01 10:53 | ||||||
| This makes for an interesting read:
http://www.videointerchange.com/pal_secam_conversions.htm#Pal%20C ... iderations | ||||||
| SCDVD posted 2006 Jan 20 11:26 | ||||||
| I need to convert two DVDs from NTSC to PAL. I have looked over the various procedures described in the guides and forum. All of them are multistep precedures involving several software tools. Since more and more software tools are introduced frequently and existing ones upgraded, I am wondering if there may be something newer that is closer to a "one click" solution within a single software product. If not, is there a more streamlined procedure than those shown? | ||||||
| Baldrick posted 2006 Jan 20 11:32 | ||||||
| no. | ||||||
| ArtemisG3 posted 2006 Jun 09 12:03 | ||||||
| I have had good results using ffmpeg. I first extract the VOB (in my case, using yade X), then I do the conversion with this command. After that is complete, I author that video file (MovieGate).
Here is an example command of converting PAL to NTSC (all one line):
You'll have to change the command depending on the location of ffmpeg and the names of your input/ouput files. | ||||||
| Bjs posted 2006 Jun 09 12:41 | ||||||
| Actually ... the answer is no to a "one button sollution" ... but as for the other being any one application being able to , the answer is yes .
Though you need add some input , as no program can guess what it is you want the outcome to be ... if it could , it be ordering beer and pizza's every friday before the football . Ulead video studio ... version 9 se in ebay cheap . Nstc to pal , pal to nstc .. many feature's ... with dvd burning on top . Considering what is included in the se package for it's price ... it save's having to work with many program's . Not to forget , cutting mpeg's ... more acurate than other tool's ... and with less stuff up's ... hello to tmpgenc ... grrr | ||||||
| poescp posted 2006 Jun 25 11:03 | ||||||
| There is only one true, proper and cheap way to convert NTSC to PAL and that is buying Canopus Procoder Express. Believe me, I have search all Video Sites and have tried all the scripts and freeware programs including the so called best Avisynth scripts, but they still leave the final video not in top quality. I have spent a half a year search the net. If anybody does come up with a better/cheap solution do let me know. | ||||||
| manono posted 2006 Jun 25 11:34 | ||||||
| There is only one true, proper and cheap way to convert NTSC to PAL and that is buying Canopus Procoder Express.
Nonsense. | ||||||
| poescp posted 2006 Jun 25 11:53 | ||||||
| OK, challenge me. But an answer like "nonsence" is not quite helpful. | ||||||
| lenti_75 posted 2006 Jun 25 14:27 | ||||||
dude you better shut up.....you are the nonsense here, obviously you have nothing to say. :D :) :lol: :lol: that is true, Procoder does the best job for this, I spent a lot trying software and this is close to perfect. | ||||||
| manono posted 2006 Jun 25 20:18 | ||||||
| OK, I use AviSynth feeding CCE. Does a great job. Any decent encoder can do it. To say only one encoder can do a proper NTSC to PAL conversion is ridiculous. If you like the soft, blurry picture that Procoder gives you, then fine, but we're not discussing the quality of encoder output, but whether or not there's only "one true, proper and cheap way" to do the conversion. And I still say "nonsense". By the way, I don't use Procoder, but I understand it blends the frames to do the conversion. If you advance a frame at a time, I think you'll see it. So, not only is it NOT the "one true, proper and cheap way", but it's actually about the worst way. | ||||||
| poescp posted 2006 Jun 26 00:52 | ||||||
| @manono. we were talking of a cheap way. cce in basic version does not do ntsc to pal conversion. cce in a higher version is not affordable for those wanting to do cheap.
however i have noticed what you have said about procoder and the blending issue. everytime i encode via procoder and add the final output to a avisynth script i have to add following code to the interlaced dvd material, so as to not have the dvd material jerky. AssumeFieldBased() SmoothDeinterlace(showlace=false) could that be the reason why i need to add these two script commands or is there an alternative way? this is my full script: LoadPlugin("C:\Programme\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\DGDecode.dll") LoadPlugin("C:\Programme\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\SmoothDeinterlacer.dll") video=mpeg2source("C:\My Documents\tempo.d2v") audio=wavSource("C:\My Documents\tempo T01 2_0ch 448Kbps 48KHz.wav") audiodub(video,audio) ConvertToYUY2() AssumeFieldBased() SmoothDeinterlace(showlace=false) | ||||||
| manono posted 2006 Jun 26 06:20 | ||||||
| Hi-
we were talking of a cheap way. cce in basic version does not do ntsc to pal conversion. cce in a higher version is not affordable for those wanting to do cheap. Well, I don't use the basic version, true, but as I understand it, its main limitation is it only lets you do 2 passes. If it accepts an AviSynth script (which it does), then it can do the conversion. For more, please see the other thread: http://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?p=1537460#1537460 | ||||||
| dphirschler posted 2006 Jun 26 09:03 | ||||||
| My experience with audio sync is this:
1) If the PAL video is film based and broadcast at 25fps, then just use Besweet's PAL to NTSC to slow down the audio. Convert the video to 23.976p. 2) If the PAL video is filmed at 25i then leave the audio alone. Convert the video to 29.97i. 3) If the PAL video is a converted NTSC 29.97i video then leave the audio alone. Convert the video back to 29.97i. It won't be pretty (it'd be best to get the original NTSC footage), but at least it will be in sync. By those rules, I have not yet had any sync issues. Darryl | ||||||
| arollason posted 2006 Aug 29 07:18 | ||||||
| I've read through all this and it all sounds pretty complicated, having to download several bits of software. At the moment i'm using either NeroVision Express or Pinnacle 10 to convert PAL - NTSC or vice versa. I don't have a problems with the sound, thats all fine, but what i don't like is the slight stuttering of picture after conversion. Is there a simple all in one product out there that does the job a lot better?
Thanks. | ||||||
| SCDVD posted 2006 Aug 29 13:35 | ||||||
The problem with the low end conversion software solution is that it adds or removes one out of six frames depending on whether you are going from NTSC to PAL or PAL to NTSC. The flicker that you mention is unavoidable with this approach. It is especially annoying on camera pans or fast motion. | ||||||
| arollason posted 2006 Aug 29 14:05 | ||||||
| Yes I agree totally with you. There must be one decent affordable product where I can just put in a VOB or MPG file in PAL format and convert it into NTSC, without having to go through about 30 steps and countless conversions and audio/video separations. I had a look at one of these guides and after about an hour i just gave up. | ||||||
| fritzi93 posted 2006 Aug 29 17:06 | ||||||
I noticed there's a new tool, AQE2DVD, seems to be kinda the same idea as DVDRB, and it's free. You open DVD files, set target directory and re-encode. Interesting thing is there's a PAL <-> NTSC conversion option. Note that I'm NOT recommending it, but it might be worth a try for those who don't want to learn one of the, uh, proper methods. I might give it a test myself. :wink: | ||||||
| AlecWest posted 2006 Sep 25 18:19 | ||||||
| I decided to experiment with AQE2DVD. Problem? First, there are no help files with it. At first I thought it was dead-on-arrival since the "Open DVD" button was grayed out. Then, just as an experiment, I entered an output file directory ... and the button started to work. But, frankly, that's all that did work.
I pointed it toward my DVD and the status bar said "extracting audio" ... and I waited, and waited. After 15 minutes of this, I took a peek in the directory. The audio file was extracted ... but the software did not proceed on to the video. It just sat there like a lump on my desktop ... doing absolutely nothing. I even checked Explorer and found that the app wasn't using any CPU time at all. It just kept saying "extracting audio" after the task was already finished. Oh, well. Maybe the next version will be better. | ||||||
| fritzi93 posted 2006 Sep 25 23:07 | ||||||
Hope so. Yeah, it didn't work for me either, it just quits. I'm embarrassed now to have even mentioned it. :oops: :P [EDIT] One shouldn't disparage the efforts of those who offer freeware programs. Obviously, the author has put a lot into it, it's just that this one isn't ready for release. Nice idea, though. | ||||||
| AlecWest posted 2006 Sep 26 01:04 | ||||||
I take the opposite viewpoint (grin). I think that "disparaging comments" (assuming they're descriptive of the problem) are sometimes what it takes to get things done. While it's true there appears to be a lot of work involved in creating the software, it's no better than hopping into a brand new shiny Lexus, turning the ignition key, and hearing nothing. FWIW, I sent an email to the creator ... giving him this link: http://www.videohelp.com/tools?tool=AQE2DVD My comment may be disparaging but it says what needs to be said. Hopefully, it will spur him/her/them into positive action on the utility. | ||||||
| fritzi93 posted 2006 Sep 26 06:55 | ||||||
| No, Alec, wasn't referring to your comments, they're helpful. :) You listed the problems well.
I was thinking more of some of the comments you see occasionally in the tools section, like: "junk", "crap", etc. That's not helpful, and insulting to boot. And I thought I myself may have been disparaging. So the author gets an "Attaboy" from me, and a ""Don't quit now, fix it". The author of AQE2DVD made a mistake releasing this tool with some major bugs, which may damage future prospects for people giving it a fair trial. | ||||||
| AlecWest posted 2006 Sep 26 14:30 | ||||||
As best I could. But, it's likely I won't be trying it again. I downloaded a demo version of Canopus Procoder and converted a short MPEG2 file from NTSC to PAL. I was mightily impressed. No discernable jitter at all and video/audio were in perfect sync. There was only one drawback ... but that might be mostly due to my only having a 1.3ghz Celeron with 256megs RAM. The conversion time on 41 minutes of video is slightly over 6 hours. But for someone using a faster CPU with more RAM, this conversion time "might" be cut substantially. I can't say. Anyhoo, I decided to buy Procoder Express ($59.95) and am, right now, converting my 41 minute video (the whole video, not just a snippet) to PAL. And, I anticipate great results. Interesting, though. The demo version didn't recognize AC3 audio ... but the full version did. The bad news is that, to go to PAL, it reconverts the AC3 back to MP2 (argh). So, when the conversion is done, I'll have to demux again and change the MP2 back to AC3. Anyhoo, I'll leave some feedback on the tool page for Procoder Express ... and there won't be too many disparaging words at all. | ||||||
| AlecWest posted 2006 Sep 26 21:45 | ||||||
| Update - The 41-minute video conversion worked like a Swiss watch. All in all, I think a fraction of a second was added to the PAL version. I watched the entire video from beginning to end and only noticed the slightest, most unimportant artifacts caused by the conversion. But (grin), I was looking for artifacts. The ordinary Joe who watches it probably won't notice a thing. And from beginning to end, the sound was in absolute sync with the video.
I'm a happy Canopus Procoder Express customer. ;) True, with my system barely meeting or barely exceeding the software requirements, a 6-hour conversion time was required for a 41-minute video. But, it isn't like I'll be doing these conversions daily. And, I do sleep from time to time (grin) and can save these conversions for those hours. | ||||||
| fritzi93 posted 2006 Sep 27 06:57 | ||||||
| Hey Alec, is your source video NTSC film or is it telecined?
I confess the rare occasions I've had to do framerate conversions, it's always been PAL -> NTSC. Using the DGPulldown method. | ||||||
| AlecWest posted 2006 Sep 27 12:13 | ||||||
My source is captured television (29.97 NTSC) with 25 PAL the desired result. When I do the reverse conversion, PAL to NTSC, I'm usually working with a DVD. In that case, I choose to lazy-out and play the DVD in my region-free player - output directly into my Hauppauge card to capture as NTSC in real-time. NTSC to PAL, however, has always been my bugaboo ... a task that could be done but not done well ... until ProCoder (grin). Anyhoo, I think the rest of my questions are more ProCoder related ... so I set up a different thread to address them: http://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?p=1583325#1583325 | ||||||
| manono posted 2006 Sep 27 21:11 | ||||||
| But you didn't answer fritzi93's question. If telecined film, they can be IVTC'd back to 23.976fps before the PAL conversion, for much better results. If you don't know how to answer the question, or don't understand the question, then it's in your best interests to learn. Just know that if converting 29.97->25fps when you could be converting 23.976->25fps, you are unnecessarily ruining your videos. | ||||||
| AlecWest posted 2006 Sep 27 21:26 | ||||||
Fair enough. I assumed a different definition to "telecined." With an MPEG2 file in front of me, how do I tell if it's telecined? | ||||||
| manono posted 2006 Sep 27 22:39 | ||||||
| Hi-
Open it in something where you can advance a frame at a time without it being deinterlaced. VDubMod can handle it, I think. Scroll to a place with motion/movement. Advance a frame at a time. If, in every 5 frame sequence, you see 3 good progressive frames and 2 nasty-looking interlaced frames, then it has been telecined and can and should be IVTC'd before the conversion. If every frame is interlaced, then it was shot with interlaced 30fps video cameras, wasn't telecined, and can't be IVTC'd. If these are movies we're talking about, then almost certainly the true framerate is 23.976fps. By the way, you can also open your Procoder encoded PAL MPV, M2V, or VOBs the same way and have a look at the frames one-by-one. Do you like what you see? | ||||||
| AlecWest posted 2006 Sep 27 22:50 | ||||||
TV captures on my Hauppauge card, 29.97. But, I will try your suggestion. Surely, converting from 23.976 to 25 would take less time and be less messy. Thanks.
Well ... I can't do it right now. It's busy encoding (grin). But, I do know I like what I see in the end result as it plays. ;) | ||||||
| klode posted 2008 Aug 27 09:00 | ||||||
I'm studying for the best Avisynth Script for conversion PAL->NTSC. I've this script that it makes a 29.97 FILM to 23.976 NTSC deinterlaced:
Although, this script have yet some little artifacts. Now, for make a good PAL movie, what can I do? I think that append this part of script: [code] ChangeFPS(50).SelectEven() LanczosResize(720,576) [code] the results is a quite-good PAL solution, except for one doubled frame every xx frames. Any solution for this one? | ||||||
| guns1inger posted 2008 Aug 27 19:13 | ||||||
| Assuming the output is an mpeg-2 video stream for DVD authoring;
Solution 1 : encode at 720 x 576 @ 23.976 fps. Use DGPulldown to apply a custom pulldown for 23.976 -> 25 fps. Author and test play. Most players should be happy with this, some may not. Solution 2 : speed up the framerate to 25 fps, then time and ptch adjust the audio to match the new running time. Author and play. Solution 3 : Don't bother. The majority of PAL players will happily play NTSC material, and it saves you a lot of work and the unavoidable loss of quality if you don't convert the video unnecessarily. | ||||||
| Alex_ander posted 2008 Aug 27 23:47 | ||||||
Try this plugin (MVFlowFPS function instead of ChangeFPS): http://avisynth.org.ru/mvtools/mvtools.html It interpolates all frames for new framerate. For 23.976 to interlaced PAL:
For 23.976 to progressive PAL:
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