Forum Archive Home -> DVD Recorders -> My Pioneer DVR-531H-s has developed burning problems ... replace burner?
| My Pioneer DVR-531H-s has developed burning problems ... replace burner? | ||||
| FulciLives posted 2006 Jul 09 22:54 | ||||
| My Pioneer DVD recorder (model DVR-531H-s) has recently developed burning problems.
I have no issues that I can tell with recording directly to the HDD which is how I do ALL of my recordings. But I just had some trouble trying to record to some DVD discs. Here is what happened ... Very recently I tried to HIGH SPEED COPY from the HDD to a SONY 16x DVD-R disc (Media ID = SONY16D1) but there was an error after the recording started but before it finished. This happened with 2 of the Sony DVD-R discs [both trying to HIGH SPEED COPY from the same HDD recording]. So I tried again using a Verbatim 16x DVD-R disc (Media ID = MCC 03RG20) but this time around I picked a different HDD recording to copy ... again using HIGH SPEED COPY mode ... again there was an error after the recording started but before it finished. Now this is like only the second time ever (first time was when I first bought the unit) I have ever tried to burn to a DVD-R disc of any sort ... in the past I have always recorded to a DVD-RW because I like to RIP it to my computer and re-auther there using TMPGEnc DVD Author ... burning a final DVD-R with the computer. All my DVD-RW discs were filled up with stuff ... I'm lazy ... so I figured OK I guess I better try one. So I go to RIP it to the HDD of my computer so as not to loose that recording ... which was made a while ago ... and DVD Decrypter errored out at 4% into the RIP ... twice ... the 2nd time after a full hard reboot. Now I am paranoid. I did not want to loose that recording but it is not RIPPING so screw it I say and I use ImgBurn to do a FULL ERASE on that DVD-RW disc (I should point out that all of my DVD-RW discs are 2x Maxell discs with the Media ID of "OPTODISCW002" and these have never given me trouble in the past). So I stick this DVD-RW into the Pioneer DVR-531H-s after doing a FULL ERASE on the computer ... which is how I always do it ... and guess what happens? It can't INITIALIZE it. Which means I can't record to it. OK I think to myself. That DVD-RW wouldn't RIP properly before I did a FULL ERASE so maybe it was just DONE ... they do go BAD after a while ... So I get another DVD-RW that has some stuff on it ... good news ... this one RIPS without issues ... I then do my usual FULL ERASE using ImgBurn ... I put it in the Pioneer DVR-531H-s and ... it can't INITIALIZE it. Which means I can't record to it. So I think it is CLEAR at this point that the PIONEER DVR-531H-s is not working properly and it seems to have something to do with the burner. Any ideas on how to replace the burner? Can I just buy a computer type DVD burner and replace it with that or is the burner in the PIONEER DVR-531H-s somehow "special" and not "compatible" with a standard computer type DVD burner? BTW I did try unplugging the Pioneer to "reset it" but I only unpugged it for a minute or so and I don't think it really "reset" as nothing "special" happened when I plugged it back in and turned it on ... for instance the EPG data was still there etc. so ... I am going to try to unplug it for like a 12 hour plus period and see what happens when I plug it back in. I consider myself very unlucky at the moment as I've yet to see any posts by anyone saying that their Pioneer DVR-531/533/633 has "broken" on them. I wonder if one of those lens/lenz cleaning discs would be worthwhile? My household is a smoking environment. Still I smoke more around my comouter than the Pioneer DVD recorder and never ever had computer issues with any of my optical drives not working due to being "dirty" so I dunno ... am very depressed right now over this :evil: - John "FulciLives" Coleman | ||||
| TBoneit posted 2006 Jul 09 23:10 | ||||
| Well FWIW I found that Sony 8X -R seem to work best for in the 531h. Did you try any 4x or 8x media?
Best Buy has 4X -r media, at least the one near me. Verbatim the ones that look like a reel of film. I wish you luck. I believe if you search here there is a thread about replacing the drive. My recollection is that the drive is a Pioneer 109 that is not the same as the stock computer drive. I beleive it may have been Lord Smurf? Bottom line as I recall it was use the electronics from the non-burning drive with the same model computer drive hardware, if I'm being clear? | ||||
| FulciLives posted 2006 Jul 09 23:51 | ||||
| I guess I am hoping that I can just buy a Pioneer 111D OEM DVD Burner and use that as a replacement. Afterall that would only set me back like $40 US Dollars ... give or take.
I can afford that (I suppose) if it will work but truth be told I am not doing so well financially right now and just can't afford to buy a new DVD recorder or anything that will be too expensive. My fear is that I will have to buy a special DVD Burner from Pioneer that will set me back BIG money and I wish to avoid that if possible. Although I did buy this from WALMART but I don't know what the Pioneer warranty details are and although I have the original box and all the contents etc. I have a funny feeling that I no longer have the sales receipt ... but I have to double check as I may still have it. I bought the DVR-531H-s in August of 2005. - John "FulciLives" Coleman | ||||
| trhouse posted 2006 Jul 10 00:46 | ||||
| Sorry to hear that. Here is a link to photos I took of the inside of mine. It was none other than TBoneit who commented that the drive looks like a special version of the Pioneer A09/109 drive.
http://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=279460&postdays=0& ... p;start=11 [edit]Oops! I did not see your PM until after posting. I will look into it and get back to you. There was someone selling the service manual for the 531 on eBay not too long ago. The price was about $10. [edit2]I just remembered my 531H says it has a one year parts and labor warranty. If you bought in August, 2005 it should be covered by Pioneer. I would call them tomorrow. They may not ask about the receipt. | ||||
| FulciLives posted 2006 Jul 10 05:04 | ||||
I'll try to give them a call when I get home from work today ... I will have to check then to see if I still have the receipt ... if I don't have the receipt I do recall using my VISA credit card (actually my bank checking account ATM/VISA card). I wonder if I could get a "receipt" from my bank on that although I would assume it would simply say WALMART PURCHASE with no "break down" of what was bought. - John "FulciLives" Coleman | ||||
| Frobozz posted 2006 Jul 10 08:49 | ||||
| Lens cleaning discs do work in some cases and you should at least give it a try.
Why do you erase the DVD-RWs on the computer rather than let the Pioneer do that? If they are VR-mode discs I just delete the titles with the Navigator rather than initialize the disc. But when I erase a DVD-RW on the computer it gets formatted wrong for the Pioneer, so the Pioneer has to re-initialize it (which erases it) anyway. The only reason to erase a DVD-RW on a computer is if you plan to burn to it from the computer. | ||||
| Beavis posted 2006 Jul 10 09:46 | ||||
| I know I'm stating the obvious here, but you definitely have something wrong. I've never had trouble with DVD-Rs in mine (used lots of brands- TDK, Fuji, Maxell, etc.). The only time I ever had burn failures was when I used DVD-RWs that had been used a few times and maybe had a small scratch or smudge on them. In that case- drive seems very sensitive. | ||||
| ndprobinson posted 2006 Jul 10 16:00 | ||||
| there are sseveral threads here on replacing the Pioneer DDVD drives & upgrading the hard drives to 3-00-500Gb
teh DVd driv eis the easiest 0 you will have to open the box and xamine the DVD drive (do not remove it) and ascertain the model no it will probably be the special XA series drive ( with extra digital connector.) ie DVR-107-XR ( or something liljke this) However if you buy the staandard pioneer drive, yu can swap the DVD circuit boards, ie replacing the laser mechanism, but keeping the digital oupput socket and the drive "identity" search for Pioneer DVd and 420H for more detailed instructions. | ||||
| trhouse posted 2006 Jul 10 16:21 | ||||
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| samijubal posted 2006 Jul 10 18:02 | ||||
You've actually burned those Optodiscs without any bad spots or pixilation? I've got some of those I got free from Shop4Tech that I've been afraid to try using after having many problems with their RAM and -R discs. | ||||
| FulciLives posted 2006 Jul 10 19:42 | ||||
Believe it or not they have been working well until just recently which I think is due to the Pioneer DVR-531H-s having an "issue" with the burner. Had a long day at work and didn't have time to call Pioneer ... will call them tomorrow ... I must find the WALMART receipt because it is less than 1 year and the Warranty does say 1 year parts and labour. - John "FulciLives" Coleman | ||||
| FulciLives posted 2006 Jul 10 19:55 | ||||
| I FOUND MY WALMART RECEIPT !!!
I tried calling Pioneer but as I figured it was too late and they were closed. I will call tomorrow. I will keep updating this thread as this plays out. Hopefully it will all work out A-OK :) - John "FulciLives" Coleman P.S. I remember buying this either late August or early September and it turns out the receipt is dated September 10, 2005 so the Warranty should be good as it says 1 year part and 1 year labor. | ||||
| Bodyslide posted 2006 Jul 10 20:15 | ||||
| Good Luck... | ||||
| dudesforhire posted 2006 Jul 10 20:20 | ||||
| See if Walmart will print-out a new receipt for you. many department stores offer that service
as a courtesy. You'll need your credit card. | ||||
| TBoneit posted 2006 Jul 11 09:42 | ||||
| FulciLives, Glad to hear you found your receipt & are under warranty. I've been getting tempted by the 640h, nore room.
I don't use my 531h as a recorder every day but has become a must have. I do use it every day as a video switcher since it has three inputs and I have a Dish 721 (Dual Tuner DVR) and a Dish 501 Single Tuner DVR and a Divx player feeding through it. And I switch around on the Input plugs in the front to connect the Video out on my laptop to record special wmv's or a Stand Alone Tivo or Camera. You may have noticed I have three tuners feeding through it from DVRs. I hate Commercials.... Grrr.... All three tuners plus the Tivo plus the 531's tuner during sweeps and the start of a new fall TV season. That way when they start running reruns I can go back and still be watching new broadcasts just delayed. | ||||
| Seeker47 posted 2006 Jul 11 16:21 | ||||
Sorry to learn of your problem, and I hope it is not going to be a common one. My 520H was bought close to the time you got your 531, and I give it pretty heavy use, on both the HDD side and the burner side.
I believe it's the latter, unfortunately, and the task is considerably more complicated than a simple burner swap. When not under warranty, the Pioneer replacement part goes for something like 3 bills (youch !!), not incl. labor, whereas the burner replacement you might be able to put in yourself -- with appropriate accessories and instructions -- would run just a fraction of that. (Since you seem to still be under warranty, you should not have to worry about that.) Otherwise, first you would have to determinie which Pioneer burner can go in there, obtain a service CD (DVD ?), a remote than can impersonate the Pioneer Service Remote, etc. I guess that becomes desperate D I Y time. In case you did not find them on your own, or get offered these in the thread (or a PM) already, I think you may find much of the relevant info in the following links. http://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=253998&postdays=0& ... 817e5caa2b http://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?p=1438381&highlight= ... om#1438381 http://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=253998&postdays=0& ... 817e5caa2b http://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=289793&highlight=replace+burner This reminds me: I keep forgetting to order that spare A07, which I'd like to have in stock, just in case . . . . | ||||
| Hkan posted 2006 Jul 12 01:28 | ||||
| I have the Service Manual for the DVR-531H, send me a PM if you want it.
Edit: I seem to have problems sending PMs: write to supportATpioneerfaqDOTinfo and request it. | ||||
| apicella posted 2006 Jul 14 02:22 | ||||
Well, FulciLives, it seems you have found a companion in your disgrace. I am having exactly the same problem. After 60 or so DVD-R burned with my Pioneer 530H (I live in Italy) it has started to give me that non-sense of "copy err". It has been now 4 times in a row, with all kind of blank DVDs: Panasonic, Philips and lastly also my beloved Verbatim 16x. I had no idea what to do and now that I see your post I am getting really worried, as I bought it more than one year ago, so non guarantee. Did the lens cleaning approach have any effect? Could you spare me some advise, is the burner replacement really the only way? many thanks to you and everbody else | ||||
| NiteLite posted 2006 Jul 14 07:28 | ||||
| apicella, How far out of warranty?
i would still call Pioneer Customer Service in your area and hopefully get a kind and understanding person on the other end and if no luck ask for a supervisor. But if you explained you have only made 60 DVDs which I would consider very little use, maybe they will offer you a special deal. I know from experience (not Pioneer) but a similar experience that adjustments can be made that may suprise you. Just a wishful hope that you can find a solution that will satisfy you. Good luck NL | ||||
| Seeker47 posted 2006 Jul 14 13:19 | ||||
You have just jogged my memory, and in a possibly ominious direction. To date, I must have burned something like 300 discs with my 520H. In the course of doing so, I must have seen this error around a dozen times. That's a rather small percentage, and I use only good quality media. The failures did not cluster at more than two of these in succession, with a separation of many good, normal burns between them. I probably figured this had to be one of two more likely causes: 1) The odd bad blank. Has to happen every so often, right ? Just so long as you don't hit a bad batch run. 2) The "video quantity calculator" of the Pioneer (I don't know the proper term, but you probably know what I mean) was wrong, due to a lot of edits &/or multiple titles, and therefore what should have been a warning in Red at the last Copy screen, telling me that disc capacity was not sufficient, instead attempted to burn anyway. Alright, add a 3) There was something funky in the recording to HDD that made the whole thing barf at dvd burn time. Nice theories, but now you have me wondering if this was really some early indication of trouble to come ? Incidentally, I have the 2nd. year extended warranty on this unit, but it's from the seriously defunct Good Guys, so we can take a long leaping guess what that's gonna be worth. | ||||
| Leoslocks posted 2006 Jul 14 13:30 | ||||
Have you defragged the drive lately? I doubt that is the issue but it could affect the High Speed Copy. | ||||
| dman_warlamas posted 2006 Jul 15 22:46 | ||||
| FYI - My 510HS started giving the 'Copy Err' [msg of eminent death!!!] and then stopped copying and reading discs!
Good news - just replace the old DVD-r drive with a new one for $45US (You can just leave the Digital audio connector on the new drive disconnected!) My Pioneer 510HS and 210 have had new drives for 6 months now and they work just fine! http://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=192334&postdays=0& ... p;start=90 http://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=298856&highlight= Good Luck! D-man[Warllamas] | ||||
| LCSHG posted 2006 Jul 16 15:08 | ||||
| Below is a partial post of mine on another site.
While for the ilo the concept should be the same in all DVD recorders with HDD I don’t believe a defrag would help in such a case as I don’t believe any recorders will mark out a bad sector. Defrag in such a case could lead to other problems While I’m not saying a DVD drive can’t go bad. I have seen many DVD drives either damaged or replaced when they were not the problem or a HDD replaced because of a bad sector I hope that It may help in this problem that seems to be with a copy from the HDD. ------------------------------------- My Post HDD problems with a HDD in the ilo and I presume LiteOn recorders or any recorder with a HDD. The HDD can [after some use] develop some bad sectors, which in a DVD recorder leads to corrupt video files and lost programs. As in a PC a HDD that develops a bad sector does not mean that the HDD is totally defective, Many HDD can develop bad sectors after some use. In a PC this could result in the complete or partial loss of a small file and may not be even noticed or cause minor problems, which is why a disc scan In video with bad sectors, the large files involved with a reading of one file after another, along with fragmentation could lead to problems as in a split and merge, a freeze up, etc. To Explain I started to have problems with my RHD94 with freeze-up, and merge resulting in lost segments of programs I use Win 98SE with FAT32 in my PC and do have some third party utilities for a fdisk and format., BUT The original drive in the ilo is LITEONFAT and is not recognized by these or the ones provided by Seagate for a scandisk for bad sector mark-out and sector replacement In a discussion with Seagate they would replace the drive if defective and I downloaded the utilities from their site, SeaTools and DiscWizard. As indicated these tools would not address the LITEONFAT. I did this Removed the HDD from the ilo and removed the jumper and configured the drive for my Use in the PC [in this case slave] Took the ilo 80gb HDD to my PC and used fdisk to remove the Liteon primary partition. Re-partitioned the drive for an active, unknown FAT Now DiskWizard would format the drive for a standard FAT32 format.[By the way it is a very good format tool] Seatools would now diagnose the drive and scan the drive for bad sectors. There were Two bad sectors on the drive and were marked out and the sectors eplaced. The jumpers on the HDD were configured to CS and the drive reinstalled in the ilo. The ilo read the drive and reformatted it to LITEONFAT and it has worked without problems since Note that a new drive is not a guarantee against to a defective or bad sector. As said, in a PC it may go UN-noticed, in a video recorder it could cause many problems Because of problems caused. It would seem that a stand-alone recorder would have a system to identify and mark out bad sectors. A questionable sector may accept a file for awhile and than go bad, these sectors could explain why a defrag could lead to a loss of programing. Long Post but I hope it Helps Edit Most would be using WIN XP and have problems with a scan as mentioned I do believe that the Seagate Tools mentioned will work with NTFS | ||||
| apicella posted 2006 Jul 17 03:29 | ||||
| First of all, let me thank all of you for sharing your experience with me. I have good and bad news: good news is my recorder is still under warranty as I bought it in december 2005 (probably I panicked so much last week that I thought everything was as bad as it could be). However I cannot find the receipt of payment, so I asked the store if they can send me a copy of that receipt, we will see....I have no idea if they can, or if they must, or if they must not give me a copy....
Thanks so much for making me think better about the warranty, NiteLite. I just need to get a documentation on the purchase, but that is more of my problem, due to my stupidity in throwing away everything when tidying up... Seeker47, you might still be right with hypothesis 1), however I had 4 out of 5 "copy err" with three different brands of blank DVDs: Panasonic, Philips and Verbatim (unfortunately I don't have here the DVD ID, but the 60 previous burned DVDs were coming from the same Verbatim spindle). In any case, the Pioneer assistance center here at my town is closing down for two weeks, so I will give it some other tries and let you know. For point 2) it is unlikely because I tried to burn different titles and in only a few cases the GigaBytes amount was close to the available space on the blank one. I might add that I got the "copy err" message myself once in a while in the previous months, but I was thinking "darn coaster". Now 4 out of 5 and also on Verbatim is starting to be a strong statistic challenge for the coasters theory... Leoslocks, I will try a defrag and let you know, thanks for the tip... LCSHG, you might be right, but I'd like to stress that my burning problems happened on different titles on the HDD, if I had bad sectors on the HDD there ought to be difference from the "corrupted" title and another "good title", right? Maybe my statistics is still low on number of cases, so while I am waiting for the Pioneer guy to get back from the beach I will try again with my best Verbatim DVDs on different titles. thanks again to all of you!! | ||||
| apicella posted 2006 Jul 18 07:33 | ||||
good news for me! The store agreed to send me a copy of the payment receipt, so I should be able to have the recorder serviced under warranty! Now, anybody has some advice on how to present the unit to the Pioneer guy? Should I ask directly for replacement of the burner or is it better to explain the problem and just let them decide what to do about it? Any experience with the Pioneer assistance? I know Italy is well different form the US, but nevertheless any advise will be greatly appreciated... thanks to all again and again | ||||
| NiteLite posted 2006 Jul 20 17:36 | ||||
| That is good news, apicella.
Not sure about European service...I know from lots of past experience here in the US, a call is usually made to the warranty phone number. After giving a brief explanation of the problem I have received a repair order number and requested to send the product to, usually, a regional service facility that will test and determine the unit's problem. Then I usually receive a phone call or letter stateing what was found and what they are willing to do to repair. If out of warranty this is done to authorise additional costs but under warranty the unit is shipped back and "hopefully" repaired. While repair time has been usually good probally half the time the unit has been returned either unrepaired or in worse condition...sad to say. Once with a JVC product, after 3 times of costly shipping to the repair center and receiving the product back unrepaired and once with a completely different model casing on it I simply called and made a deal with JVC. Forget fixing the unit and I will never buy another JVC product. This is from experience from US reapir centers which I dont put much trust in. Maybe in Europe things are different and if you have local repair centers as so you can carry-in the product maybe you will get better service. Or if a dedicated Pioneer service center receives the unit, I feel they will make an assessment to their costs and fix the damaged HD or simple send a replacement. Either way, Best of luck. Regards, NL I'm sure FulciLives will soon share his experience. Good luck also. | ||||
| trhouse posted 2006 Aug 11 15:03 | ||||
| My warranty is up on my 531H in September also. I guess we must have purchased about the same time.
To answer your question about replacing the dvd drive if it is out of warranty. It can be done and gshelley61 has done it ( on a 420 ) in this thread, http://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=253998 I suspect the procedure is about the same for the 531H and is similar to what needs to be done to upgrade or replace the hdd. I just upgraded my hdd from 80 to 500 GB in the 531H ( 219 hours now available in SP mode ). The problem is that the drives have an embedded CPRM number which must be entered for the drive to be recognized but the recorder. To enter that number requires a service remote control and a service disk. The CPRM number is written on the back of the recorder to the right of the AC input line. The purpose of the service remote is to allow entering the CPRM number and the service disk is for burning it to memory somewhere in the electronics of the drive. | ||||
| misfits859 posted 2006 Aug 13 17:36 | ||||
| I had the same problem where my 531H would fail when burning. I have switched from memorex media to Verbatim and have not had a failure since (approximately 50 discs). | ||||
| FulciLives posted 2006 Aug 14 00:27 | ||||
| Well here is a mini-update ...
I've been both busy and lazy. Busy doing stuff I have to do leaving little time for anything else other than to use that little bit of time to be lazy. So I have yet to try and call Pioneer again and talk to a real Pioneer person. I did get the name and phone number of a local Pioneer Service Tech place ... this was all automated on the Pioneer Phone System. I called and they pretty much just said to bring it in blah blah blah ... which I haven't had time to do really. So today I finally bought this Maxell CD/DVD Lens Cleaner thing (basically a disc with a brush on it) and treid it for 30 seconds (the directions said to do it for at least 20 seconds). After that I tried doing a high speed copy from the HDD of the Pioneer DVR-531H-s to a Sony 16x DVD-R (media code TYGO3 or Taiyo Yuden). It worked! I am almost out of DVD-R discs so I'm not sure what I will buy next (usually Verbatim 16x DVD-R or the Sony 16x DVD-R ... whichever is on sale). I haven't looked at my Sunday paper yet to see what is on sale this week. I should just order some Taiyo Yuden 8x DVD-R discs from RIMA.COM but I hate the wait time LOL Anyways I will try to test some more ... maybe it was just DIRTY and needed cleaning. My sales receipt for the purchase date was September 10, 2005 so I don't have much time left if I am going to do something that needs the warranty (i.e., take it in for repair). - John "FulciLives" Coleman | ||||
| apicella posted 2006 Sep 21 11:13 | ||||
| after some time I managed to bring my 530 to authorized Pioneer service here in my city at the end
of last month. Today I called them and it turns out they did test the unit, found a problem, but could'nt fix it. So they shipped it to Pioneer service center somewhere in Italy to have it repaired. I will call them in two weeks or so. I am hoping they manage to fix the unit, in any case it seems it really had some problems. Tried to ask the girl at the phone what the problem is and what intervention is planned, but she hadn't the slighest clue. I don't want to think they didn't try to clean the lens as FulciLives did, so let us believe it is something serious. I will keep you informed, thanks for your advise!! | ||||
| FulciLives posted 2006 Sep 21 12:26 | ||||
| Well I never did take mine in to get it serviced. I have one DVD-RW that works again and again so I just been using it over and oever
. I need to buy some more but can't get the same kind (not made anymore) so I am unsure which to get since the Maxell DVD-RW stopped working. The one that works is TDK so I guess I will try TDK 4x DVD-RW discs next (I have heard of other Pioneer 5xx/6xx users using the TDK 4x DVD-RW discs successfully). I did get a lens cleaner but that seemed to make no difference. I know I know ... I should have taken it in ... but I'm lazy and my warranty ended a week or so ago. It still works I guess it just got very picky about media ... go figure. As long as I can find more DVD-RW discs that it likes then I am fine. That's how I do all my burning as I re-author everything on my computer anyways. - John "FulciLives" Coleman | ||||
| Seeker47 posted 2006 Sep 21 15:17 | ||||
Yeah, that's all I use in -RWs on the 520, works well. CompUSA sells 'em in 25 spindles for about 25 bucks, once in a rare while $20. on a manager's special. | ||||
| apicella posted 2006 Nov 09 10:50 | ||||
| hey, guys, a quick word to let you know that finally my DVD recorder is coming back!!
They are better to have done a heck of a job, because I had to wait for almost three months!! It seems the recorder had serious problems after all.... I will let you know what informations I can get once I have in my hands (should be two-three days max) | ||||
| apicella posted 2006 Nov 16 10:49 | ||||
Well, I think I brought myself bad luck....My Pioneer DVR-530 H-S still has the problem!! "copy err" after half a minute of burning on a DVD-R... After waiting for almost three months for the supposedly repaired unit, I picked up the phone to call the service guy and see what the story was. I have to admit he behaved correctly enough, because he gave me the number of the Pioneer lab where they sent the unit (I live in a small city) to have some words with him directly. This guy was very polite: he told me this is a problem already reported for some units: when copying at high velocity on DVD-R some units develop burning problems. He told me he upgraded the software as instructed by Pioneer and it seemed to work for him. However, when I said I didn't see any change on Verbatim 8x and 4x blank DVDs, he told me to send back to him the unit with the DVD that was not burned (or burned only in little part), adding that if it is necessary he will change the whole burner. I am now having some hopes, as he said: " no question, the recorder must work, you shouldn't worry, in a way or the other I will get it to work".... Luckily enough it will all be done under warranty and I want to thank you guys again for remembering me about the warranty some months ago. Now that I have the phone number of the guy actually working on the unit, I will try to have some more information... maybe my problem deserves a place in the sticky "Fatal flaws", what do you say?? I will keep you informed... | ||||
| FulciLives posted 2006 Nov 16 12:35 | ||||
| My Pioneer DVR-531H-s has been working OK with 2x DVD-RW but doesn't want to burn to a regular DVD-R anymore. That is OK with me because I re-author everything anyways in the computer meaning I prefer to use DVD-RW.
Also I noticed something a bit odd. If I do a FULL ERASE of a DVD-RW on my computer the Pioneer will fail to INITIALIZE it ... however ... if the DVD-RW has data on it and I try to INITIALIZE it in the Pioneer then it will work and it will burn to it A-OK. How odd huh? Especially since it didn't have that problem before i.e., I always used to do a FULL ERASE of the DVD-RW on the computer and never had problems with that til recently. - John "FulciLives" Coleman | ||||
| Seeker47 posted 2006 Nov 16 14:33 | ||||
If necessary, insist on a new replacement burner . . . especially since it sounds like this will be covered under warranty. That part purchased from Pioneer, here in the U.S., if it is out of warranty would cost (a ridiculous) $300. An end-user can apparently buy one elsewhere for a small fraction of that amount, but the repair techs are the ones with the most ready access to a programmed code that allows a replacement burner or HDD to be accepted by the DVDR. | ||||
| apicella posted 2006 Nov 20 11:17 | ||||
it sounds our two Pioneers are becoming more and more similar in terms of burning problems... I myself managed to burn a DVD-RW with the same titles that didn't burn on the DVD-R. However, I couldn't get the PC to read the DVD-RW, do you have any idea why, FulciLives?? I burned in Video Mode and I did finalize it at the end. However, neither DVD Shrink (Message: Disc has no data), nor DVD Decrypter (Message: Could not recover Toc) could read the DVD-RW... | ||||
| FulciLives posted 2006 Nov 20 19:42 | ||||
Throw out that DVD-RW and try another. Hopefully you still have that recording on the HDD of the Pioneer otherwise forget about it and move on. I've had some DVD-RW discs that after a while I just had to throw out. Now I never delete anything from the HDD of the Pioneer until I know the DVD-RW has been ripped without errors to my computer. - John "FulciLives" Coleman | ||||
| apicella posted 2006 Dec 06 02:58 | ||||
| OK, here are some fresh news:
I have been keeping the Pioneer service under control after having sent back the unit for the second time, together with the not-burned DVD-R. The service guy has just told me that after another firmware upgrade the recorder did burn a blank one, but he doesn't have the feeling it is still OK, so he ordered a replacement burner. He says that the burning speed is very slow at the start of the burning process and he does hear a "not so right" sound (doesn't sound really technical as an analysis, I know.....). He added that there is the possibility of the blank DVD to be "sliding" at the beginning of burning process. I have to say that it has been a rough time (I bought the recorder in december 2005, brought it in for service in August 2006 and still waiting to have it working properly), however I can be satisfied with the Pioneer service as it appears they did struggled to have it working and in the end they concluded to replace the burner.... If they did the first time around I could have saved a month, but I don't complain. I just look forward to have it back, I have so much stuff to back-up.... | ||||
| lacywest posted 2006 Dec 06 06:00 | ||||
| I was having problems with a Pioneer Receiver the VSX 915 ... the unit was not coming on.
I was outside ... while it was playing a Toby Keith CD ... when I didn't hear it anymore I thought the CD was finished. The Blue power light was blinking and wouldn't come back on. I bought it from Etronics on line. Etronics told me to call Pioneer and they gave me the phone number. I called Pioneer and the lady on the phone asked me for the serial number ... I gave it to her and she told me that was what she needed to hear from me. And she then told me she would have a letter sent to my address ... giving authorization to ... City Video Inc. Fresno, CA 93711 ............ to fix it. [this was around July - August 2005] They did fix it .... but ... I found out ... a few months later ... the Pioneer VSX-1015TXK ... had better features. And so I got it ... December 2005. Now ... I want to get the Pioneer VSX-1016TXV-K ... because it can handle HDMI inputs. | ||||
| james10s posted 2006 Dec 08 08:00 | ||||
| The DVD burner (DVR R09-XP) on my pioneer DVR 530h-s has never been able to burn/copy successfully or consistently with other than x8 Sony -R media. The unit was purchased in around April 2006). About three weeks ago, it began to fail - produced lots of coasters. Finally, about one week ago - it stopped burning - it would start a copy process then produce a copy err message several minutes later. I tried several media (x16 -R from Sony, Maxell, Verbatim and HP plus my trusty x8 Sony) with no success. With hints/encouragement from gshelley61, I decided it was do or die and undertook to replace the burner. I bought a pioneer DVR-109 on e-bay (supposed to be new, but didn't seem to be the case - March 2005 manufacture date and scratches) ($38 incl. shipping) but seemed a good deal nevertheless.
It took this newbie 4 hours (those annoying dropped screws - cost an hour of my time ) but the repair seems to have worked. The R09-XP has this "special" ribbon connector that is not found on retail burners. So it was not simply (for me) remove the case from the DVR-109 and DVR-R09XP and swap them. I had to take off both burner's top cases and open up the bottom sections as well (10 or 11 screws involved - top and bottom). There's a circuit board on each burner that has 3 ribbon cables (a thicker, slimmer and thin copper coloured one). I unclipped the burners' circuit boards, removed the ribbon cables, then swapped the circuit boards and re-attched cables. Then from my prior hard drive upgrade, I used the service remote, disk (GG11??) and instructions to enter the CRPM data. All sorts of strange things happened (burner tray remaining open, or not opening, hdd option not selectable, etc.) AND the infamous HDD ERR and incorrect CRPM panel messages. Then I recalled dman_warmans's post (the member who'd said something like DO mess with stuff you're not supposed to) who mentioned the jumper settings. It was a 30-minute ordeal as the burner was already installed (and there's little space to work with) - the jumper pin broke off (so I was in effect installing a broken jumper and new jumper) and I didn't notice (there was the metal bit of broken jumper) 'til 25 mins later. Anyway, with jumper in correct position and after re-entering ID, all is fine. I successfully burned a x16 -R (Sony and Vebatim) and a "never-before-worked" Ritek -R DL. Althouth the burner supports +R/+R DL, the blank +R disk was "incompatible" (assume same for +R DL). Haven't tested with -RWs So now I wonder (think I read it wouldn't work) whether with the new service disk (latest firmware disk as Hakan mentioned in a post) an all-write (-/+R. -/+R DL, etc.) is possible. Final thought: my inexperienced guess is any pioneer burner might work (if you do it the way I did) with this repair procedure. Anyway, I'm so pleased my burner is back in operation. Thanks gshelley61 (and dman_warmans). R/James | ||||
| FulciLives posted 2006 Dec 08 18:01 | ||||
| I would love to try that myself but ...
I have no service disk ... I do have a service manual (in PDF) ... but no service remote or programmable remote etc. Plus the procedure sounds a bit complicated ... I would try it if all it is is screwing this or that but the way you talked about the circuit boards sounds like stuff I don't know how to do. I dunno for now mine still seems to work with DVD-RW discs except for a few that I guess I just used one to many times (or got too scratched up) so that works for me since I re-author everything on the computer anyways. Might be nice of you to put a guide together should I ever decide to try or of course anyone else. After all it is a popular model. I would think the 530/531/533/633 should all be the same more-or-less as they are all from the same "production year" and or very similar to each other. - John "FulciLives" Coleman | ||||
| james10s posted 2006 Dec 08 22:20 | ||||
| I'll try to put some clear, detailed instructions together and post them in this thread within the week. Perhaps also on Hakan's site? After the fact, the burner repair/exchange is not that daunting. I have a DVR 530h-s but only have a 533h-s service manual (the manual applies to DVR HS models 531, 533 and 633). I think it was gshelly61 who mentioned one does not really need the manual for this DVD repair? I tend to agree - good instructions and photos are better. Essential is the service remote and service disk. | ||||
| christopheramos posted 2006 Dec 09 10:26 | ||||
| james10s, that would be awesome if you could post a guide like that.
I have a refurbished 531H-s, and I like it a lot. Of course, it won't last forever and sooner or later the burner and/or hard drive will go out. I'd like to be prepared ahead of time for this by getting a better understanding of how to swap out the drive or burner if/when needed. Thanks!!! Chris | ||||
| lacywest posted 2006 Dec 09 12:14 | ||||
| I realize it is not a Pioneer but I have the Panasonic EH50 DVD Recorder with a 100GB harddrive.
I am satisfied with the results. 1st one I bought was a open box [no box ... just a thick plastic bag] sitting on a table in Circuit City in Fresno Calif. I originally went to Circuit City in Visalia and there was one on display on their shelves. But the sales person refused to sell it to me. So as I was traveling down the road back to my town I used my cell phone and called CC in Fresno. They had one there and I jumped on Freeway 99 and bought it. A few days later I went over to Visalia again ... it was gone ... assholes ... either they were keeping it for themselves or I should have pressured the salesperson or asked the manager if they would sell it. Then I started checking Ebay and I bought three more ... one of the units has not been fired up to see if it works ... the other two work ... so I am not worried. I use one in my living room and the other is in my bedroom. The TV Guide program did work with my Comcast Cable ... but I've cancelled Comcast and I now use Directv. Very easy to use the Directv HR-10 it can spit out a S-VHS signal that is 480i. When I have something recorded to its 250 GB HD ... I have the option to use the VCR function which displays for a few seconds a description of the show I am sending to my VCR/DVR and then the actual show/movie begins. I have to make sure I change the output to 480i or the EH50 will not see anything to record. Just to make sure everything is as it should be I have a small 13" TV for monitoring purposes. | ||||
| apicella posted 2006 Dec 15 02:48 | ||||
| Well, lads, yesterday my Pioneer 503-H came back and this time they did change the DVD burner...
Happily enough everything now works smoothly and I also managed to understand why I couldn't read DVD-RW burned by the Pioneer on my laptop. It was just a problem with the internal Toshiba DVD unit on the laptop, now I got an external DVD writer from Samsung and it can see the DVD-RW all right.... It sounds that there is a good bunch of Pioneer units with failing DVD burners, so I believe this should be mentioned in the fatal flaws sticky thread.... BTW, I feel so lucky this happened to me still under warranty, just looking at the james10s post was kind of scary... (not sure I could get to very end of the procedure all by myself)... anyway, as christopheramos pointed out, one should be prepared to these events when they happen, so having a reliable document is very useful. I'd recommend to put stuff as simple as possible, james10s, just pretend you are trying to explain this to a eight-year old kid.....mmmhhh, still smarter than me....make it a eighty-years-old granma - that is more or less my level | ||||
| james10s posted 2006 Dec 15 09:35 | ||||
| My previous post might have put people off this DVD burner repair/replacement. The procedure is relatively simple (sounds like it's easier for pioneer recorder units like the 510hs or 520hs whose burners may not have the 530hs's/630hs's "special" ribbon connector. With the 510hs and 520hs, it appears you simply replace the old burner with a new one of a similar series - then use the service remote and data disk to delete and re-input CPRM ID#). Below is the procedure I used for my pioneer 530hs. You need the pioneer service remote and correct service data disk. I used a retail pioneer DVR-109 burner to replace the 530hs's failed DVR-109-XP:
1. Turn on pioneer recorder unit (I'll refer to it as the "unit") and remove any disk in the DVD tray. While the tray is open, remove its face plate (by gently/firmly tilting/sliding plate out). Then power off. 2. Unplug unit from power/mains. Remove necessary screws so you can take off the unit's top cover. 3. Remove front panel section (bezel) of the unit. 4. The DVD burner ("burner") has metal plates screwed into its sides, which plates are screwed to the unit's bottom. Remove the screws attaching the metal plates to the unit's bottom and free the burner. Before the burner is free, you have to unplug the power supply cable. Also disconnect special ribbon cable from burner's special connector (leave the ribbon cable connected to unit's motherboard). Remove screws fastening metal side plates to burner. 5. Next, remove the (10 - 12?) screws holding the burner's top and bottom cover plates. 6. With bottom of burner face up, you should see the 3 cables attached to one of burner's two circuit boards - detach the 2 ribbon cables and the 3rd brown/copper-coloured cable. The thin brown cable comes up above the board through an opening cut into the board. 7. Unclip the circuit board from the body of the burner. This is the bit (i.e., circuit board with "special" connector) that you will place on your new burner. 8. Repeat these steps on your new burner. Note: new burner won't have that "special" connector. 9. Now, place circuit board from your unit's (make sure you don't confuse old and new burner) original burner on new burner. As you do that, pass the thin brown cable (from your new burner) through the hole in the circuit board. Use pliers or strong tweezers to attach the three cables. Then clip the circuit board back onto the burner. 10. Re-attach burner's metal side plates and secure burner to unit by screwing metal side plates to unit's floor. 11. Attach power and ribbon cable to burner's "special" connector. IMPORTANT: At this point or before you secure burner to unit, attach jumper (I believe "master" setting is correct one. The new burner's information sheet should indicate the jumper settings). 12. Replace all screws and cables. Replace unit's front panel. 13. Replace unit's top cover. [I believe Hakan's site may have photos(?) showing screws attaching face plate and position of clips securing the faceplate/bezel. Otherwise, you might need to refer to the service manual.] 14. Connect up (a video cable will allow you to view progress on TV monitor, otherwise on unit's display panel) and power on unit. Attach (clip on) the DVD tray's faceplate. 15. With the unit on and in its standby state, use the service remote to delete and re-input CPRM identity data. 16. When prompted, physically open unit's tray and place service data disk in tray and close tray. When it's done, remove service disk. Turn off the unit - then turn it on again. [Steps 15 and 16 are detailed in the pioneer hard drive upgrade procedure on this and other threads in this forum.] Your pioneer unit's burner should now work as new. I estimate the entire procedure should take 30 to 45 minutes - if you don't rush through it. An experienced person may be able to replace the burner in less than 15 mins? Of course, all this is DONE AT YOUR OWN RISK. [You void the unit's warranty if you carry out these HD and DVD procedures.] When I have time, I'll try to add photos to the various stages of this procedure. Hkan's site might be a good host for this. R/James p.s: I'd like to attempt to install a burner in my 530h-s that can write to -/+ R disks. Sounds like a long shot, but may be with the firware of unit that can do that (such as 640h-s)?. If anyone has done it, please PM. Thanks. | ||||
| PuzZLeR posted 2008 Mar 26 10:46 | ||||
| I revived this thread over a year later to point out my problem was solved with info from here. I had a similar problem here in case it helps someone.
Thank you FulciLives for this thread. | ||||
| orsetto posted 2008 Apr 03 10:06 | ||||
| Just for the record, since this thread has been revived for a moment, I'd like to add my revised two cents.
I have been using-repairing every Pioneer DVR model for the last several years, including the 510, 520, 531, 633, 540 and 640. These threads and Hakans website have been critically helpful in making repairs affordable for us DIY service types. It can get a little complicated at times, but once you have the instructions and the tools home repair almost always works. Note, however, I just used the qualifier "almost"... Any of you looking to repair a 2005 USA model 531, 533 or 633 should be warned that these models are an absolute HORROR to service. They are ten times more difficult than the other Pioneers because of their nasty hare-brained implementation of the TVGOS timer software and their wide range of unit-to-unit firmware-hardware version interactions. Each 2005 unit is slightly different than the other which makes all repair instructions for them only a suggestion, not gospel- you have to experiment, A LOT. While you might think this would not have any effect on a simple burner replacement, think again: In the past two years I have updated or replaced the HDD and/or burner in half a dozen 531-533-633 units, it was extremely tedious but always successful. Recently, I took a chance on a couple of 531 floor demo models I picked up very cheaply due to DVD drive issues (each unit would play DVDs but not record). When I replaced the burners, THE HDDs TANKED. Now the new burners work perfectly but the HDDs are completely inaccessible: you can't even get to the Navigator screen on the HDD. This was the result of following the same burner replacement procedure outlined above, which has worked every time in the past. Now, these units simply will not recognize any HDD, period, not even a replacement HDD and not even if I put back their original faulty burners. So, they're now useless. I guess my point here is that the 531-533-633 series is NOT the best choice for home servicing- they are extremely difficult to work on at best, and at worst they can self-destruct right under your nose. When they are working correctly they are excellent recorders, especially for transferring unstable VHS. But have them professionally serviced if you can possibly afford it- there are just too many traps and glitches in the 2005 models. By contrast the earlier and later models are a breeze to service, with the 2006 and later (640 on) units being damn near indestructible (almost no breakdown complaints on the forums after two+ years). When shopping second-hand Pioneers, always factor in possible service issues on the 2005 models. | ||||
| PuzZLeR posted 2008 Apr 03 15:13 | ||||
| Orsetto: Thank you for your information. As I have solved my problem, I do have the understanding that it may be a temporary solution (as per some discussion in PM with others as well).
I am happy it works, but also happy because it gives me a buffer of time to shop around instead of scrambling desperately. I am not going to be complacent this time, even if I do end up having two working recorders - it's no big deal since a backup for security is always handy (instead of ugghhhhh, a VCR.... :x) I am considering your advice even more strongly now since eyeing an ongoing deal in my area for a Pioneer 650 - a gem in my opinion. Yes, I agree, when the machines are working I too believe it's hard to beat the functionality, and even the video recording quality of a Pioneer. With your comments I feel even more confident that grabbing this new Pioneer will be a good decision. Cheers, Geordie. | ||||
| Knightmessenger posted 2008 Apr 08 14:35 | ||||
| Well, I just won a Pioneer DVR 533 on eBay. I was trying to record from my camcorder and thought I had done it right. (The recorder is hooked up to a tv so I know it received the picture) I finalized the disc but it won't play on anything. Not even my computer. Just the disc file popped up but I don't think they were video data files. I can see that the disc has been written to by looking at the back. Still, it behaves like a data disc.
Now, it didn't come with the manuel so it's hard to know what I did wrong. Basically I don't understand what Initialize does or means. I don't understand the different recording types and the "if you select this now, you won't be able to select this mode" message. I couldn't find how to change the recording modes from XP to SP. Instead I ended up with this custom graph chart that allowed me to set the recorder for 1 hour 18 min. It even let me preview the video at that setting. I think I might have used VR mode but I don't know what that is compared to the regular mode. So any idea what I did? I know I was in dvd mode instead of hard drive the whole time. So why would I be able to record and finalize a dvd without it playing video? What is VR mode? If the manuel was somewhere online, that could help too. | ||||
| PuzZLeR posted 2008 Apr 08 20:30 | ||||
| I understand your questions fully, but would need pages to answer them my friend. What I can suggest is contact Pioneer somehow and get a manual from them. I'm sure someone in this thread may have something for you too via digital version - check your PM.
Is there a very specific question maybe I can help you with though? BTW - do you have NeroVision? Why don't you put the disc into your PC and import it through NeroVision. I do this all the time since I do most of my edits/processing/etc on my PC anyway and the beautiful thing is that you don't have to finalize your discs either since NeroVision can find the data on it anyway - DvD video, VR mode, or unfinalized, no problem. | ||||
| trhouse posted 2008 Apr 08 20:39 | ||||
It is "Video Recording" mode and is not compatible with most players. Use Video Mode and you should be ok. | ||||
| FulciLives posted 2008 Apr 08 22:31 | ||||
| You can download a PDF manual from the Pioneer website. You do have to register using an e-mail account of some sort but it is free to register and free to download the manual.
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/ - John "FulciLives" Coleman P.S. I found it but it was kinda tricky so in order to make your life easier ... since I'm such a nice guy and all ... I uploaded the PDF to rapidshare.com Here is the link to download ---> http://rapidshare.com/files/106013466/266785436DVR533HSOperatingInstructions.pdf The file is approximately 7.9MB so it shouldn't take long to download | ||||
| kofola posted 2008 Apr 09 06:02 | ||||
| Here is link (without registration):
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_11221/ ... ctions.pdf | ||||
| PuzZLeR posted 2008 Apr 09 23:03 | ||||
| If you still can't get it for any reason, I now have a PDF copy of the 533 manual myself. Just PM me (assuming, of course, it's Ok with Mods to offer this). | ||||
| Knightmessenger posted 2008 Apr 12 22:31 | ||||
| Okay, I think I understand what happened now. A few questions:
How do I switch it back from VR mode to regular video mode? How do I change the video mode recording speed from XP to SP and back? (remember I don't have the remote) | ||||
| PuzZLeR posted 2008 Apr 13 00:12 | ||||
| Looks like you may have to purchase a remote from Pioneer's parts department. There are so many things you'll miss out on without it, including recording settings, programming, etc... It's only about $30-$40US I think. As well, these remotes are so much more detailed than most universal remotes you see at stores. Nevertheless, I hope you got a great deal on eBaY that would justify this extra expense. | ||||
| FulciLives posted 2008 Apr 13 13:10 | ||||
| Without the remote you are toast ... like PuzZLer says ... check out the Pioneer website and purchase one.
Without the remote you are dead in the water as the saying goes ... - John "FulciLives" Coleman | ||||
| Knightmessenger posted 2008 Apr 13 15:33 | ||||
| It was less than 200. I wanted one that I thought wouldn't need a remote because it has the menu keys on the machine itself. I'm only using it to record stuff from my video camera so I don't need to worry about tv recording.
Can I still switch it back to normal video mode anyway? | ||||
| orsetto posted 2008 Apr 14 00:59 | ||||
Under $200 without remote was a decent buy given the current sellers market for these units- assuming it is in good condition, you did well. Most functions are accessible from the front panel, EXCEPT the crucial recording speed selector. As you've discovered yourself, the menu buttons will let you activate custom recording time and adjust it, however it won't let you select standard speeds such as SP- you need the remote for that. Without the remote you can fudge an approximation of standard speeds by setting a similar custom speed using the front panel arrow buttons, i.e. MN21 is similar to SP. The front panel buttons WILL let you solve the VR Mode issue. You need to push the Home Menu button, select the Initial Setup option, select the Recording menu, then select the HDD recording format: if it shows VR Mode greyed out and gives the option to "start" Video Mode, do that. You can also switch recording format for blank dvds by going into Home Menu, Disc Setup, Initialize, and again choosing Video Mode instead of VR Mode. (You need to do this once for each type of media you use: DVD-R and DVD-R/W.) When you finish dubbing your camera footage to each DVD-R, be sure to go to Home Menu, Disc Setup, and Finalize to make the disc compatible with most DVD players. The remote is not cheap but worth having. It sells for about $35-45 on eBay, and $50-60 new from Pioneer or specialty remote control dealers. The correct remote for your unit is model VXX2967. | ||||
| PuzZLeR posted 2008 Apr 14 09:06 | ||||
| I remember when I last researched it, as Orsetto mentions, the remote isn't cheap (I thought I lost mine once...:oops:)
Although getting one from the Mother Source Pioneer is the best option, if you have a tight budget (none of my business just helping) and still want one, take a look at this: http://www.amazon.com/Philips-PMDVR8-8-Device-Specialty-Universal/dp/B0000ALPB9 Apparently it can handle any DVR and has gotten good reviews in some forums, and one person on AVS said it works excellent for his (later model) Pioneer, so I can't see why it wouldn't work on an older model. I don't want to guarantee anything, but do a little digging if you like. I checked on eBaY as well, and at the time of this writing they were selling at anywhere from $1-$8. Not bad. But if I were you I would just buy it a local electronics store chain. If by some chance it doesn't work you always have a legitimate excuse to get a refund conveniently, especially when it promised Pioneer compatibility. | ||||
| Knightmessenger posted 2008 Apr 14 23:21 | ||||
But I can't use the custom recording mode in regular video mode, right? And I thought I tried to choose video mode for dvd (to switch it back) but it was greyed out. Someone mentioned there is a program that would rip my vr mode dvd to my computer and then I could just edit it from there. Would that also enable me to direct rip from any other video dvd? | ||||
| orsetto posted 2008 Apr 15 00:28 | ||||
| Yes, absolutely, you can set manual ("custom") recording speeds in either Video or VR mode, on DVD media or the hard drive. There are one or two minor restrictions/differences concerning ridiculously long recording speeds (like 8 hours on a disc- terrible quality) that don't really matter to anyone.
You have to look carefully at the setting screens. Often if an option seems greyed out it only means you need to slide over to the next column on the right and select the word "start" or "turn on" to activate or switch to that option. Since the recorder seems to be a bit confusing to you as-is, you should probably not risk getting an inexpensive universal remote for it. You really should have the correct Pioneer remote with the model-specific button labels that match the instruction manual. If you can afford it, spend the extra money and get that asap, it will make life easier because there are dedicated speed buttons on the remote that override the menu settings and are easier to use/understand. The Phillips universal remote recommended by PuzZLer is a good unit and can be an excellent replacement remote for an original owner who already totally "gets" how the recorder works. But new owners who aren't yet used to Pioneer control conventions should probably try to get exact Pio replacements for any missing remotes to minimize any chance of confusion. | ||||
| PuzZLeR posted 2008 Apr 15 01:04 | ||||
| Knightmessenger, as a frequent user myself of my DVR, I highly recommend you get a remote to enjoy your unit so much more.
I can't imagine how I would have gotten even 20% of the recording, editing, programming, burning, etc that I've done in that same amount of time without one all these years. Even if I could perform all functions without it the speed of my workflow would be diminished significantly and would be very inconvenient anyway. Whether you go with Pioneer, or with a cheaper universal, you'll be better with one than without one. :) Orsetto, I see your point about having prerequisite knowledge before getting a 3rd party remote. If my remote croaks then I certainly would go with the cheaper model but a new user would indeed be harder pressed with the learning curve and mapping, etc. It depends on how much the savings mean to the new user... | ||||
| Knightmessenger posted 2008 Apr 15 20:25 | ||||
| I double checked and I was right, I couldn't select video mode... until I turned custom recording to Off. Now it says I don't need to initialize the disc to use video mode. (Which is what it should.) But is there any way to be absolutely sure I'm in video mode? Because the letters V and R are lit to the left of the clock.
The default recording setting is SP which is what I plan on using most of the time so I'm still in pretty good shape without a remote. What, again, can I do with my recorded disc that is in VR mode? | ||||
| orsetto posted 2008 Apr 15 21:28 | ||||
| The "V" indicates you have a blank or unfinalized Video-mode disc in the recorder. The "R" indicates its a write-once DVD-R disc. If you see "RW", that would indicate a rewritable DVD-RW disc in the machine.
Now that you have apparently managed to switch the recorder back to burning standard Video-mode discs, your problem may be solvable. That is, assuming the VR mode DVD you made from your camcorder footage at least plays normally on the Pioneer recorder thru your television- you weren't quite clear on that point. If even the Pioneer that recorded it won't play it on a TV, consider the disc trashed: something went wrong beyond the scope of what we can advise third-hand on a forum. If the Pioneer CAN play this problem disc normally, then all you need to do is put it back in the machine, go into the Home menu, select the Copy function, then the DVD-HDD option. This will bring up a screen showing you all the titles recorded on this VR disc. Scroll up or down as necessary and click the enter button on each title you want to copy back to the HDD (all of them one after another is what you likely want, you'll need to select each one separately and be sure to only click enter ONCE for each title). After you've selected everything you want, scroll to the right and select the "next" icon. From that point forward just keep answering "Yes" until the recorder displays a progress screen and starts copying from the DVD drive to the hard drive. It will tell you when its finished, it takes about 10 minutes. Once everything is copied to the HDD, take out the VR disc and put in a blank DVD-R. Go back to the Home Menu, return to the Copy function, but this time select HDD-DVD mode. You will then pick the titles off the HDD that you want to put on the DVD, basically reversing the earlier process. As you cycle thru the "next" and "okay" screens, you will notice a "finalize" button on the lower right. Click on it, answer yes, and select a menu style for the DVD. The recorder will begin copying back to the fresh DVD, but THIS time will convert everything to a standard Video-mode finalized DVD-R that should be playable almost anywhere. If you put another blank disc in, the recorder will remember the previous copy list and make an identical copy if you want. This sort of thing really requires a sit down with the manual, if you have not done so already get the manual emailed or downloaded, and study it: this recorder is too complicated to operate by guesswork. You really need the remote as well. I have the same unit, most of its operation is pretty simple once you figure out the slightly quirky function screens, but one does need to take a time-out and learn it. (Half the manual is devoted to the idiotic TV Guide On Screen feature, you can skip that whole section if all you plan to do is make DVDs from your camcorder.) | ||||
| Knightmessenger posted 2008 Apr 16 00:13 | ||||
| It worked! Yay! Are there any suggestions in general for the video settings? (I've left any noise reduction filters off) The other minor thing is when I inserted the dvd, it didn't automatically load the menu. I had to press play for the feature to start playing and then menu to go to the title screen. Is there a way to fix this in the future? | ||||
| orsetto posted 2008 Apr 16 13:31 | ||||
Glad to hear it worked! The video settings primarily affect playback and aren't all that effective for recording: in fact unless you're very sure of what you're setting and why, adjusting them can make recordings worse. It is normal for standard finalized video-mode DVDs not to autoplay: generally the player will recognize the DVD but not load the menu until you push the Menu button. Very few, if any, DVD recorders can create DVDs with the auto-start feature (perhaps Toshibas but I haven't heard of any others). Creating an auto-play DVD or auto-loading menu usually requires re-authoring the disc on a computer. | ||||
| Seeker47 posted 2008 Apr 16 14:36 | ||||
These are both settable (and changeable) defaults, but I'm not sure if you can get to them easily without the remote. Do yourself a huge favor and get a Pioneer VXX2967 remote. It may be the best remote model they ever made, and well covers the the 53x and 6xx series. I got mine from one of the other online dealers Orsetto alluded to. It might have been Partstore.Com, but enough time has gone by that I'm not sure. It cost me $35. + shipping, which at that time was a few dollars less than Pioneer wanted for it. Right now I see they have it listed for $37.80. | ||||
| wabjxo posted 2008 Apr 16 15:11 | ||||
| The Pio 53x/63x/640s will "auto-play" DVDs if you insert the disc (-R/RW) in the tray and press PLAY, rather than just closing the tray. That will both close the tray and set the home-made DVD to play. Commercial DVDs will play to whatever point they've set them to play. | ||||
| fano3 posted 2008 Apr 17 18:28 | ||||
| Glad this thread was brought back to life. I have a Pioneer 533 that I purchased on 2/06 and have had problems with the DVD burner from the start. I always had problems with burning to any single layer disc - no matter the brand and figured maybe I should try DL discs. So with the DL discs it worked and for about 2 years now I've been burning stuff to DL disks as well as to single discs which started working, with the occaisional bad burn; I'd say I'd get 2 bad burns out of every 10 - which still suks but I figured better than none at all.
Lately I can't get it to work with any single layers again and my DL burns are starting to cr@p out. I'm getting the feeling after reading this thread that my burner is bad. I can't believe I got basically less than 2 years out of this thing. It wasn't used for a total of I'd say 9 months when I initially couldn't get it to burn so in reality it's less than 2 years and probably more like a year's worth of service. That's pretty cr@p if you ask me. Anyway good to know others have had the same problem and that I'm not crazy and that it seems to be an issue with these machines but it's frustrating to know that this piece of equipment would have this kind of problem for so many. :( | ||||
| wabjxo posted 2008 Apr 17 18:43 | ||||
| It's been awhile since I had my 531, but have you tried a factory reset and set your clock manually and DST Off? Might be worth a try cuz lots of timing going on in a DVDR and the change in DST rules messes with the rules in older FW, causing many "odd" problems most people wouldn't associate with time or timing issues. | ||||
| Knightmessenger posted 2008 Apr 17 19:42 | ||||
I'm pretty familiar with what video and audio adjustments do. In fact my film class this week focused on color correction. Which I already know a lot about. With the recorder, my first recordings looked washed out with very little dynamic range. It also had a lot more compression than I was expecting for SP mode. I had used the 7.5 IRE which made the picture darker. This time, I tried setting that to zero (which actually made the picture brighter) and then boosted the white level, decreased the black level, increased the gamma and saturation. I think the zero IRE by itself would make the picture more washed out but these other settings don't appear as dark and murky. | ||||
| PuzZLeR posted 2008 Apr 18 09:24 | ||||
| @Fano3: Sorry to hear of your difficulties. These older Pioneer units, although amazing machines when they work, have fits of flakiness particularly with failing burners.
Did you try a disc cleaner by the way? It has completely cleared my similar problem. I'm not saying it's a permanent solution, but it should extent the functionality of your machine at least another few months, maybe years. I know you had this problem from the start, but even new machines can have dirty lens. The one that worked for me was from Maxell with a brush on the disc. Another thing I can suggest is, since you get roughly 80% good burns, use RW media to migrate content to your PC. I personally find it better re-processing, re-editing, re-authoring and re-burning directly from the PC anyway. As well, you won't create a bunch of coasters this way. You will know a bad burn from a good one. And if you have NeroVision, you don't need to finalize the disc from your DVR. Using the "Import disc" function it will find the files and load them to your hard drive for you. | ||||
| fano3 posted 2008 Apr 18 15:24 | ||||
| @wabjxo - Thanks - yeah, I have DST off and manually set the clock. And I've done the factory reset as well.
@Puzzler - I'm totally going to try the Maxell cleaner...hopefully that will lead to some kind of resolution...at least for a little while. And thanks for the tip with the RWs...I'll give it a shot. Thanks for all the good tips to try. Much appreciated. | ||||
| Knightmessenger posted 2008 Apr 24 18:11 | ||||
| I think I understand most of the video settings. I know adding sharpness and any noise reduction is to be avoided. But I don't understand what the 3D Y/C separation between motion and still does. (I do know Y/C stands for luma and chroma) Right now, I'm specifically looking to copy a vhs tape of a soccer game I recorded 8 years ago with my Hi8 camcorder. Although it's only second generation, the picture quality is not very good since it was recorded in EP mode and the EDIT function on the camcorder that preserves more of the dub quality was not turned on.
So what does Y/C separation do and what do you think would be best for this situation? | ||||
| orsetto posted 2008 Apr 25 13:04 | ||||
| Since you have some training and know the effect you're looking for, just experiment until the resulting test recordings are as close to what you want as the unit can achieve. The consensus of most Pioneer users who've bothered with the settings is that the Y/C 3D is the least obvious of the adjustments- meaning its difficult to tell what if any effect it has.
It may be that particular adjustment is only effective when faced with a very specific signal defect, so experimenting is the only way to find out. I have noticed my Pioneer 531 occasionally exhibits an odd motion artifact when encoding various random TV shows: say in a medium-close shot of a person, if they move their head quickly the movement briefly appears "animated", the overall head shape moves first and then a split-second later the facial features "catch up" to the head. Its a weird effect and hard to catch, but every now and then if I'm paying attention I notice. Maybe the 3D Y/C setting helps with something like that? I'll have to try one day when I have time to really dig into it. | ||||
| Knightmessenger posted 2008 Apr 25 22:05 | ||||
| But I don't know what I'm supposed to be looking for with the 3d Y/C. I'm really frustrated with the recorder with how the dvd's are turning out. I feel that everything is either too bright or too dark or there is little contrast at all depending on how I use the level settings. So I'm getting no midtones. The color is extremely washed out even with the saturation set to max.
What does gamma do? The main problem is that the whites are clipping much more than they did on the original tape. I don't know if this has to do with the IRE setting. I had it at the brighter 0 because when it was at 7.5, everything was too dark. Which one is correct? I have gotten better levels and color with a transfer to vhs using my vcr. | ||||
| FulciLives posted 2008 Apr 25 22:21 | ||||
I've seen this effect with a source that was a commercial DVD I was playing back on a Sony PS2 connected to the Pio 531 via S-Video. I had first RIPPED the DVD then made a copy of it to remove all copy protection. I was using it as a high quality source (yet a very dark source) to see how well the Pio would record it. In short it was an experiment. I noticed the effect and the only way I could get rid of it was to lower both video noise reduction options to "off" or "all the way to the left". I've always left the Y/C 3D thing to the middle as changing it here made no difference so I figured I'd just leave it in the "default" middle position. - John "FulciLives" Coleman | ||||
| Knightmessenger posted 2008 Apr 26 20:10 | ||||
| I moved the Y/C once to the left because the tape had a lot of motion (soccer game from a handheld camera). Very hard to tell the difference with that setting although I did slide it back and forth with the THX test from my Phantom Menace dvd. The last test with the dots, color blocks and lines had the dots appear smaller and not bleed as much when it slid all the way left (toward motion).
It's the white clipping that's really the problem. | ||||
| zzucru posted 2008 Sep 10 16:58 | ||||
| I own a Pioneer DVR-420H that may have a failing burner(DVR-107XA). I still have the factory 80Gb HDD
installed and it has about 30 hrs [EP] remaining. Could use some feedback on things to try. Do you think that this is a hardware issue or something more? It will successfully burn/finalize DVD-R media. Results with DVD-RW vary. Somtimes it works and sometimes not. The variety is in the NOT results. It always completes the copy cycle as if it worked. Never an error message. A peak with disk navigator [DN] always shows the expected view, but sometimes the thumbnails are blank (black). In those cases the disk will not play. It acts as if the drive can't find the selection on the disk and reverts back to the tuner. Other times the thumbnail images are there and the disk will play at this stage. Next comes the finalization stage. Here it gets a little more interesting. Sometimes it finishes with standard completion message. Other times finalization flat out fails. In the cases where it thinks its successful ... it isn't always. A peak with [DN] sometimes shows a finalized menu other times shows an unfinalized view. This is never predictable. Just because it finishes successfully doesn't mean it did. It has produced disks that will not play on the 420H or other standalone DVD players. However, they will play on my PC DVD R/RW, PC R/RW/RAM and my Panasonic (DVD-RAM). So I looked at the file structure of a so-called finalized -RW with my PC and it is exactly like a DVD-RAM (DVD-RTAV folder with VR_MANGR.IFO and VRMOVIE.VRO files). This got me wondering about what actually happens during the finalization step to make a DVD compatible. An unfinalized DVD is not viewable with Windows Explorer, so I'm not sure what it looks like. A typical DVD has AUDIO_TS and VIDEO_TS folders with bup, ifo & vob files ... pretty standard stuff. A finalized DVD with multiple programs (titles) basically has a fileset for each title (bup, ifo and vob). A DVD-RAM has 2 files as mentioned above. The smaller file manages the location of multiple titles in the larger file. Does this mean the the raw DVD is in a RAM format and finalization breaks it down to standard DVD? I am using -RW media that is a couple of years old and am going to get some fresh disks to see if that helps. I've also used a disk with the lens cleaning brushes ... didn't seem to help. I've read about burner replacement ... if you have replace the board is it necessary to match a 107 or A07 with same or will an 106, 109 or other work? | ||||
| orsetto posted 2008 Sep 10 19:46 | ||||
| Do not use well-worn DVD-R/W media in your Pioneer 420: it puts a strain on the laser assembly and doesn't burn well, as you have seen. DVD-R/W does not really live up to its promise of "eternal eraseability" and should not be used that way, especially in recorders that cannot be easily repaired. Its a good idea to keep a dated set of fresh R/W discs and rotate them. After 20-30 burns discard or recycle them: that really is the limit of their reliable life when used in older recorders.
The 420 requires a DVR-107 or DVR-A07 PC burner: these are the only models that can swap controller boards with the 420's original burner. Another alternative is to purchase a "dead" donor recorder from eBay or Craigs List: the model 220, 225 and 320 without hard drives have a tendency to blow their power supplies and often sell for as little as $20-40 in "non-working" condition. Usually their burners are still good and can be easily swapped into a 420 or 520 hard drive machine. |
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