Forum Archive Home -> DVD Recorders -> JVC DR-M10 Loading and Repair Question
JVC DR-M10 Loading and Repair Question | ||||||
| usaf64 posted 2005 Jan 26 10:57 | ||||||
| Hello All: Purchased this unit last Oct (04) and all seemed well. Copied roughly 30 VHS to DVD-R's during that month. The unit sat until December at which time I converted 8mm tape to roughly 21 DVD-R's. Three times I got stuck in the "loading" loop: twice I finally got out it under 20 minutes, the last one took several hours of unplugging and replugging the power cord.
So the unit sat, unused, from Dec 5th to yesterday (Jan 25, 2005). I turned the M-1- on, waited until it was ready and placed a recorded DVD-R in it to watch. It went into the "loading" cycle again and it was two hours of unplug, replug, push its front buttons--to no avail, to get the tray to open and retrieve my DVD-R. But something else now has happened! Now, the output signals are totally distorted. I can hear the chopped audio but no video will display on the TV screen. Just total distortion (mostly green in color), full of snow, and rolling, horizontal lines. Absolutely no video is displayed. Here's what I've done. Relocated the unit, plugged power into different wall outlet, changed the audio/video cables, used different DVD-R to playback, connected the unit's A/V output directly to the TV (had it connected to the VHS, then to TV prior). All was the same distortion. Even trying to bring up the "setup" or other "menu" selection was impossible as the screens on the TV were fully distorted. I have e-mailed JVC and someone is goingf to get back to me in 5 days. I hope they will repair (shipping and insurance costs to me) this unit as the nearest Authorized service center is more that 100 miles away (Gas here in California is darn expensive). Just passing this along to other Dr-M10 unit owners. If anyone had a unit repaired, I'd sure like to know what was done about the distorted output and the "loading" loop thats difficult to exit. Thanking all in advance! | ||||||
| gshelley61 posted 2005 Jan 26 11:39 | ||||||
| Others that have had this problem report that a couple of bad resistors are replaced, and then no problems afterward. JVC is aware of the flaw. | ||||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 Jan 26 14:35 | ||||||
| POWER SAVE (off) is to blame, in conjunction with faulty resistors from what appeared to be a bad summer '04 shipment (NTSC only). The power save mode fed constant power to resistor ill-equipped to last.
The problem has not surfaced on early or recent shipments. Take it to a JVC center, and the quick repair will permanently fix the issue. Bad resistors (chinese) have been plaguing electronics since the 90s. The fake ones (not found in JVC) have even been known to explode. Interesting story that involved industrial espionage. PAL equipment has never had the loading issue, was entirely confined to a couple months of NTSC R1 units. This thread pretty much documented the flaw for about 2-3 months until the culprit was found, and the problem fixed: http://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=241001&highlight=loading | ||||||
| THE-KEK posted 2005 Jan 28 02:11 | ||||||
| lordsmurf, I have a PAL unit, and it has now started to do the loading more often.
Has now happened twice since my last post on the other JVC-M10 thread. I might just have to take it to a service centre and get it sorted | ||||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 Jan 28 02:12 | ||||||
| Odd. Not heard of PAL units with this issue. Yours is Aussie one too. Maybe that was part of the NTSC production line, not the Europe one. | ||||||
| samijubal posted 2005 Jan 29 15:59 | ||||||
| The problem is more than likely resistors with a wattage rating too low for the application, not faulty resistors. Resistors are normally very reliable. | ||||||
| steve2713 posted 2005 Jan 29 16:05 | ||||||
| I read the other day of someone having this happen to their recorder after JVC had 'fixed' it. If the 'solution' to this problem is to not use standby, doesn't that mean that you can't use this recorder to do timer recordings? If that's the case, that would make this recorder essentially useless for me. | ||||||
| samijubal posted 2005 Jan 29 16:30 | ||||||
| That is what it means and I couldn't use it because like you said that would have made it usless. A poor quality machine with more issues than just loading. I dumped the junker and took the $175 loss. | ||||||
| LakotaRose posted 2005 Jan 29 23:53 | ||||||
| My DR-M10 had been sent to the corner, unplugged, to contimplate the error of it's ways on several occasins...to no avail.
I happened to check the JVC site tonight and saw that they are finally addressing this problem. They claim that the units that suffer from the "Loading" malady will be repaired free of charge. I don't know about shipping charges, but they posted a phone number to call for questions. I, for one, will be one of the first in line to get this puppy's mind changed. :) | ||||||
| broadway posted 2005 Jan 30 09:48 | ||||||
| that's great news about the free repair
and my work is 30 minutes from the NJ factory service center where exactly on the website is this free repair notice???? I don't see it. my unit has been okay since I put it in power save mode and this past 2 weeks it's been in timer recording mode and it has not acted up yet the $6,000,000 question is - should I get it fix now or wait till it really acts up? hmmmmmmmm.... | ||||||
| xiaNaix posted 2005 Jan 30 15:08 | ||||||
http://www.jvc.com/support/support.jsp?pageID=1&item=24[/quote] | ||||||
| Leoslocks posted 2005 Feb 04 15:26 | ||||||
I had the "Loading" error with the SR-MV30. Not even a week old, power saving On from the start. I opted for an RMA refund. I may purchase a DR-MH30 and eventually add a 9911 to it. Funny how a $350 budget got bent into a $700 purchase which has led to the need to spend nearly $1000. :oops: | ||||||
| edkm posted 2005 Feb 04 21:57 | ||||||
| As posted above, JVC's website says they will repair the "LOADING" problem free of charge. Furthermore, it is not necessary to contact a repair service first - just pack it up and send it. Here's the reply I got from my query to JVC regarding that subject via the link from the JVC website: "We would suggest having your unit sent to the nearest JVC Factory Service Facility. We would suggest sending the unit UPS ground with a copy of your sales receipt and include a letter with your name, address, phone number and a explanation of the problem." The service facilities are listed on the website. I'm waiting to get my DR-M10S back now. | ||||||
| Matt_ posted 2005 Feb 10 15:47 | ||||||
| My family has a JVC DR-M10S that we just recently started using in the last week or so.
The unit was made in Japan and manufactured in May 2004. After plugging it in for the first time, the very first thing I did was turn on the power save mode. The entire top of the unit is cool to the touch during playback of dvd videos and recorded dvds, but it appears that during recording when I put the palm of my hand on the left rear of the top of the unit, there is a low level of warmth. Is this normal ? I read lordsmurf's comments in the 3rd post from the top of the thread about the resistors and what units were affected, and so I thought if I called JVC that maybe I could take a pre-emptive measure by telling them the manufacture date and serial number and see if they could tell me based on that if that is among the units (that will be) affected (and then, if necessary, send the unit in to have the resistors replaced instead of having to wait a few weeks before the problem possibly strikes my recorder). I also mentioned the pattern noticed in this forum of what units were affected. The guy I reached sounded bored and uninterested. All he told me is that JVC doesn't know which units are going to be affected and that the only condition for sending it in is that, if my unit is going to be one that will be affected by the loading problem, I have to wait until the problem strikes. The only good thing that came out of the conversation is that he said that if this loading problem occurs within the one year warranty that jvc will fix the problem for me at no charge. So, if my unit is going to wind up with the problem, is it more likely to occur during manual recordings or during timer recordings ? | ||||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 Feb 10 15:51 | ||||||
| No idea. It is random in nature, as most power errors are (on anything in the world that draws power).
I'm not sure timer recordings work with power save ON. But you CAN alter it on and off when needed. | ||||||
| Matt_ posted 2005 Feb 10 16:31 | ||||||
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| gshelley61 posted 2005 Feb 10 16:34 | ||||||
| That's good to know. Some have assumed that the timer recording feature of this unit goes away if you use the power save mode. I think all the default "standby" mode (the opposite of the power save mode) does is allow the machine to start up faster when you turn it on. Many CRT televisions have a similar "fast start" feature that keeps the tube supplied with a bit of power when it is off, so it does not take so long for the picture to appear when turned on. | ||||||
| samijubal posted 2005 Feb 10 19:22 | ||||||
The clock is there because it's not going into power save. They all turn on early to timer record, it gives itself plenty of time to read the disc and get ready to record. Also some go to record and pause, I think the JVC is one of them, then off pause to record. | ||||||
| Matt_ posted 2005 Feb 11 15:54 | ||||||
| Thank you both for the replies/help.
"The clock is there because it's not going into power save." Ah. I missed that in the manual. I read through the description again at the back of the manual about "power save" and saw that the manual does warn about that. That's an unfortunate dilemma. And I read what lordsmurf said: "You want NO POWER to the machine when you turn it off. Extended power to the unit, like anything else electronic, can cause problems in the long run." So, any time that I decide to use the timer function, that span of time while the unit is waiting till the time to begin recording is going to potentially put the unit at risk of developing the loading problem ? If that is the case, then it would be a disappointment that a $ 200-$300 recorder can't handle without developing an overheating problem what a cheap $ 30-$50 vcr can handle. Also, I wonder if it makes a difference if the auto clock is turned on or off. I searched through the manual and didn't see anything indicating that the auto clock is disabled when power save mode is on. So I turned the auto clock on and left it on for a day and then turned it off. I could very well be imagining this, but it seems that there is a smidge of detectable warmth over in the left rear of the top of the unit when the auto clock is on that isn't there when the auto clock is off. | ||||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 Feb 11 16:05 | ||||||
I don't agree with that at all. A VCR left on too long IS being damaged, and DOES generate heat (inside or out) and OFTEN eats tapes. Some of this depends on how the unit is made too. Some can be left on, most not. Electronics are made to be turned off when not in use, not fed constant power. | ||||||
| Matt_ posted 2005 Feb 11 16:18 | ||||||
| Thank you for explaining that because I did not realize that.
I had worded things that way because I was speaking from the perception, based on how I'd always seen vcrs used over the years in the classroms, by friends and family, etc., that a vcr was something that you just plugged in and left on all the time and that it just ran and ran. I never stopped to consider, i.e. it never crossed my mind, that there could be any deleterious effect from that. Based on what you said, perhaps my family has just been lucky -- we have several models of Sony brand vcrs (each 3-4 years old) that are at still working and were always plugged in all the time. The alternative to making timer recordings (in order to prolong the life of the jvc) would be to record the program on the vcr and then record from the tape to the dvd, but then there would the extra time involved plus the lower quality of that compared to just recording from the broadcast to dvd to begin with. So, do you do something like put your components like a vcr and dvd recorder on a power strip and then just flick the switch on the power strip every time that you're done using them for the day ? | ||||||
| gshelley61 posted 2005 Feb 12 03:06 | ||||||
| Well, the JVC DVD recorder should be able (and was designed) to have the fast start/timer feature going all the time. The units that some folks have that overheated and developed the "loading" problem were flawed and needed to have a couple of bad resistors replaced. JVC is aware of the problem and will fix it at no charge for anyone that experiences it with their unit.
However, LS is right. Electronics circuits will last longer if they are not powered up all the time. The individual components in circuits do eventually wear out and go out of spec over time. Disconnecting your electronics from power when they are not in use will extend their service life. | ||||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 Feb 12 07:42 | ||||||
| Just use the timer. If the unit fails (odds are, it'll be fine), it can be fixed. Again, this is a minor flaw in the JVC, found in a small percentage of cases. This is not a wide-scale recall. This issue has totally been overblown by the forum trolls.
The same trolls have been jumping up and down with "its really soft" and "the colors are washed out" and "it's too bright". But time and time again, these myths are put out to pasture. Yet they still scream them. Again, examples of making a non-existant issue into an issue. People just have to be smart enough to see through the BS. | ||||||
| andy y posted 2005 Feb 15 19:04 | ||||||
| I recently purchased a JVC DR-MH30S (I live in the UK).
Unforunately I have started experiencing the same "Loading problem" some of you are describing. It started a few weeks ago and seems random in nature. A couple of times it has happened when a playing DVD was paused, sometimes when a new DVD was loaded and occasionally when a playing DVD was stopped. It seem a huge co-incidence that two model lines from the same company suffer from the same symptoms, best suggestion appears to be some form of component fault, possibly the resistor problem many of you refer to. It seems surprising however that a new model has a know fault from an older unit! With regard to your mention of a bad power supply, I have had the machine plugged into a surge protection device from day one. | ||||||
| gshelley61 posted 2005 Feb 15 19:50 | ||||||
| The new unit that replaces your model is the DR-MH300S. The DR-MH30 and the DR-M10 are both from the same production era. All the JVC DVD recorders from last year are based on the same design, and a number of those have developed the "loading" problem, apparently caused by two faulty resistors. JVC is aware of the flaw and will fix your unit at no charge, even if it is out of warranty. | ||||||
| Gianky posted 2005 Feb 16 03:22 | ||||||
| I have a jvc dr-mv1, and i've exactly the some "loading" trouble. It's a resistor problem. And it's very hard to repair. I'm waiting for the second time that they change resistors. Seems impossible that jvc can do these things. :shock: | ||||||
| mind the gap posted 2005 Feb 17 11:51 | ||||||
| I bought my JVC recorder in Spain on the 21st of January this year, made in Germany model.
Started acting up about a week ago, went crazy (so did I) on Monday the 14th. Unplugged overnight on Tuesday the 15th, thought I had beaten it on the 16th as there where no problems, today "loading" is back. Saturday it's at the workshop. Up until this annoying "loading" problem, I had been very impressed with recording and playback, (when comparing it to my 6 year old USA Panasonic), for all of the 3 weeks it worked with no problems. | ||||||
| species8514 posted 2005 Feb 22 03:56 | ||||||
| Hi guys - just to let you know i bought one of these recorders from ebay (before i knew about the problem,) - guess what! "Loading", "Loading", "Loading"........ Mine is a PAL (bought in the UK), so it appears that this isnt just NTSC units. I am trying to get some response from JVC. It does have one other problem which im not sure is related, but when im viewing tv through the recorder, it wont show it in wide screen - even though i have tried in the set up the 16:9 auto / 16:9 fixed options. | ||||||
| pippas posted 2005 Feb 22 05:29 | ||||||
| Sounds like these units are best avoided -- even the PAL ones!!
Shame, because they do seem to give a good picture (when they work!) | ||||||
| gshelley61 posted 2005 Feb 22 07:54 | ||||||
| The new units coming out in a couple of months will more than likely have the "loading" issue resolved. My DR-M10 is still working fine after nearly a year. No problems so far... | ||||||
| usaf64 posted 2005 Feb 22 09:29 | ||||||
| Hello All: it was my post that got this thread started. After a review and search of the JVC Web Site, I boxed up my unit and remote, mailed it to the repair center in Cypress, CA on January 27, 2005. Its been over three weeks and I haven't heard from there yet. Did follow up two days ago with a letter asking about the repair or return status.
Will keep you all updated if and when I get it back | ||||||
| andy y posted 2005 Feb 26 19:37 | ||||||
| Further to my previous comments on DR-MH30 (PAL Uk model) loading problem.
My machine got worse to extent it was unusable. JVC performed a very quick turnaround on a guarantee repair. At present seems good although it's only been back in operation a couple of days. Similar problems reported on EYO forum in Australia would suggest the problem may be very widespread. | ||||||
| gshelley61 posted 2005 Feb 26 19:41 | ||||||
It's common enough for JVC to have posted a message on their website about it that offers free repair of the problem regardless of whether the unit is under warranty or not. I would expect the new models that are due out in a few months to not have the "loading" issue. | ||||||
| usaf64 posted 2005 Feb 28 15:06 | ||||||
| Boy! What a jam I', in concerning the Cypress CA Service Center. I mailed, insured, and sent my DR-M10S to this facility over a month ago. In fact, only two weeks ago I sent them a followup letter to query the status of my repairs. Never heard a thing--and can't get a telephone number that gets a real person on the other end.
So I went to the Post Office (here in Northern Ca) where I mailed the unit and had them check up and determine if my broke DVR was delivered. The post office official looked up the insurance tracking--or whatever, and told me the unit was delivered 29Jan05, but either the shop was closed or no one was there to sign for it. The Cypress CA Post office then gave them a notice that a package was waiting for them to pick up and sign for. Nothing happened and the post office then sent that a second notice. Nope, the Cypress facility never came to pick it up. So here I am, over a month has gone by, I did exactly what the JVC web site told me to do, i.e., repackage, insure, and mail the DVR to the nearest service center. I sent a followup letter and the Cypress Post Office sent two notices for pick up. The final blow is this according to the post office clerk up here in Northern CA, "..if they don't pick up the package--and it might have already have happened, the package will be returned to you as undelivered." Does anyone have a telephone number for this repair shop where you can actually talk with somebody? Or is it just my bad luck they won't pick up the package or respond to post office notices and/or my follow up letter? There, I've vented but getting a gut feeling that the unit will be returned and still broken. Any sage advice out there as to who to talk with? | ||||||
| mdoublem posted 2005 Mar 02 23:59 | ||||||
| I took my DR-M10S (Japanese version) which started showing the "loading" issue intermittently a few months earlier in for service on Feb 15th 2005 to the Cypress service center in person. The gal that took the machine made a comment that she didn't really see these (DR-M10S units) there much at all but they were familiar with the problem and said it would be fixed free of charge. Two weeks later it was ready for pick up. Unfortunately, the first thing I saw when I plugged the thing in was the "loading" on the display, what a bummer. I really haven't had a chance to play with it much so I'll assume it was a fluke, but I'll test it out and take it back if the problem still crops up again.
My receipt from the Cypress Center has a telephone number: 800-252-5722 and a fax: 714-229-8077 which you could try. I didn't call them but they did call me to indicate the machine was ready. Incidentally, the receipt said that they performed a "Product upgrade P.W. Board ASSY" Good luck, hope the problem is really solved so we can go back to QUALITY recordings on this recorder. | ||||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 Mar 03 00:35 | ||||||
| It goes into "loading" for a few minutes anytime it is unplugged for an extended period of time. That is normal operation. | ||||||
| neuroslicer posted 2005 Mar 03 13:16 | ||||||
| For those of you who have had your unit fixed by JVC: How long did it take? Have you had any problems since then? (I'm sending my unit off shortly). | ||||||
| DrProphet posted 2005 Mar 12 20:26 | ||||||
lordsmurf
I don't know whether you have shares in (or work for) JVC, but i'm of the opinion that ALL JVC-M10 models should have been recalled - they are still being sold!! This is more than an overblown issue caused by "trolls" (this is quite evident throughout the net)...that is just an assumption of yours, and a pretty pathetic one at that - No offence intended. Within weeks of purchase we were all to familier with the now infamous "LOADING" error. This happened four times before finally locking up for good.... as in,i could not do sh1t with it. A great machine i thought,but unless you can use it for it's purpose then.... btw mine was a PAL R2 UK (made in Germany) - so it most certainly is not confined to R1 as you suggested. The question is; do i purchase a Pioneer DVR420HS, OR wait to see if the new JVC models live upto my expectations. :shock: :) | ||||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 Mar 13 08:57 | ||||||
| Complainers are loudest. Things are always overblown and exaggerated on "the net" because everybody makes it their personal bitching ground. Forums are horrible about this.
If you're unhappy with JVC, buy the Pioneer. Once you get the JVC repaired, nobody ever complains of it breaking again. They fix it with a different part, not more of the same old ones. | ||||||
| DrProphet posted 2005 Mar 13 11:57 | ||||||
So they should be,these "complainers" put money into the coffers of JVC, in return they expect a quality item which WORKS. Unfortunately you cannot benefit from hearing my tone of voice :D over "the net",but be assured,the head of customer services for JVC heard LOUD AND CLEAR what i had to say. As for things being overblown and exaggerated over "the net" - The retailer where i purchased the JVC told me there had been a major problem with these machines. Enough said.
As i stated,i think the JVC is a great machine (when it works). How do we know this fault as been cured PERIOD? - we don't. I will wait for the new models to arrive,let's hope these machines do not carry the same fault. :) | ||||||
| DGinnetty posted 2005 Mar 16 04:14 | ||||||
I agree with you about the JVC being a great machine. Mine had the LOADING problem way back last year. Talked to customer service and got it repaired. It was out of my living room for less than a week. Paid nothing for it to be repaired, even though it was past the warranty. Since returning with the correct resistors, it has been running nonstop for the last 5-6 months. I cannot calculate how many hundreds of hours of recording it has suffered through since then. Based on my observation, The problem WAS the resistors. With the correct resistors, it works flawlessly. If you are worried or frightened that the problem may not be cured PERIOD, then I suggest you never buy any DVD recorder because I think I have heard of every major brand recorder having problems to some degree. When will those problems be cured PERIOD, and how will we know? Nothing is perfect; but for me the JVC is pretty damn close. Dan Ginnetty | ||||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 Mar 16 07:30 | ||||||
Yes. You heard correctly. Every machine out there has some flaw. At least the JVC one can be fixed, unlike some others. | ||||||
| DrProphet posted 2005 Mar 16 15:38 | ||||||
Yes i agree, ALL major brand recorders can have problems from time to time. Though don't forget, JVC had a SERIOUS fault which effected ALOT of their DR-M10 recorders -- never have i seen such a flaw in another recorder. Anyway,even though i was not amused :D by this fault.... JVC is top of the list when making my next purchase :o btw My brother has a Pioneer DVR420HS, not one problem has arisen -- it works flawlessly. | ||||||
| steve2713 posted 2005 Mar 16 15:55 | ||||||
| My 420 has been flawless, so to make excuses for JVC's poor quality control by saying 'all recorders have their flaws' is lame. And I HAVE seen posted before where someone had their JVC 'repaired', only to have the loading problem return again, although it seems to have been an exception to the norm with their repairs. | ||||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 Mar 16 17:15 | ||||||
| Pioneer has issues with picture dropout. It is also uncommon, but happens enough (like the JVC problem) to make gripe lists. | ||||||
| mind the gap posted 2005 Apr 01 08:22 | ||||||
| When working, the results are fantastic.
And the DVD-ram facility of recording whilst watching is great. | ||||||
| TBoneit posted 2005 Apr 01 09:46 | ||||||
As with anything in life there are always exceptions. Tivo comes to mind, it is always running even when turned off with no display on the TV. My Echostar boxes are always on in one forme or another. IE when off the power light may go off but the unit is still in standbye mode so that the unit can wake up and record a timer event, download the latest 9 day guide, firmware upgrades etc. Software upgrades download when the unit is off. MY Dishplayers wake up at 3am and download the guide data and any s/w updates and when powered off I can see the power light on the removable drive tray is lit even tho the drive isn't spinning. And of course anything that can be turned on via a remote has some feeding some circuits or it couldn't turn on with a button press on the remote. And with My Cyberhome Ch-1500 I turn it off at the AC power switch on the back as the unit is fine except for a overheating issue even when off. Runs cool with the cover off, what were they thinking not putting cooling slots or a cooling fan in the unit? :roll: No cover = Cool running and durable unit. I decided against the replacment unit as it appeared to have fewer features. Cheers | ||||||
| TBoneit posted 2005 Apr 01 09:53 | ||||||
True, however some things that is a real pain, Tivo and my 721 and to a lesser extent 501 and Dishplayer, but mainly the first two take a long time to boot up to operability after a power outage. The Tivo and the 721 both run Linux and first they start to boot then they check the Drive for errors and and after a few minutes are ready to go. the 721 then also has to get data off of the satellite, start X Windows etc. That is why they run off of a UPS. The other two are quicker but they still do recpetion checks etc. So obviously and hopefully they are designed to run 24 hour a day. Cheers | ||||||
| samijubal posted 2005 Apr 01 10:38 | ||||||
| Switching power supplies are always on. Wattage and therefore wear varies according to wheather the unit is powered up or not, but the power supply is always on. | ||||||
| chendagam posted 2005 Apr 05 15:27 | ||||||
| I too have the same problem. I called JVC today and sat on the phone for 30 minutes before I was able to talk to a real person. When I finally got ahold of him he was no help at all. He told me I need to ship the unit to the factory and can not drop it off. I live very close to the factory but have to go the opposite direction to UPS and spend a fortune to ship it. I'm so effin' mad about this entire situation. They sold me a unit that doesn't work and now I have to unhook the damn thing, spend a *^$% load of money to send it to them, and hope it doesn't get lost in the mail. I was thinking of just going back to Best Buy and purchasing a new one. Then I can put the crappy one back in the box and return it. Only problem is that it looks like they added an "s" at the end of the model number. I don't know if they would even notice but what the hell else can I do. Does anyone know if best buy will send it back to the factory for you?
I tried to call the nearest JVC repair center and they told me only the factory is handling this problem. I have a JVC VCR I bought a few years back that hasn't woked right in a while either. You can be sure that I will never purchase JVC ever, ever again. I recomend and consult alot and JVC has been crossed right off the list! Their customer service stinks. | ||||||
| broadway posted 2005 Apr 05 20:57 | ||||||
I am surprised by this. A co-worker of mine bought a JVC too. He physically took the unit to the factory authorized service center in late Feb/early March with a copy of his original receipt and a copy from the page of the JVC website mentioning the free repair. JVC repaired it and shipped it back to him a month later. | ||||||
| chendagam posted 2005 Apr 06 06:51 | ||||||
| Yeah, this guy on the phone was a real doosh. I really don't know what to do. I'm afraid to just buy a new unit and try to return the old one because I could end up getting stuck with 2. It really wouldn't be such a big deal if JVC would just treat me like a human being. I paid $450 for a unit that only worked for a few months. I always thought that companies want to keep the customer happy. I'm not asking for much, I just want my unit to freakin' work. When it is working, I love it. It's a great machine. If anyone has any ideas please let me know.
John | ||||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 Apr 06 07:14 | ||||||
| Call back and get somebody else. | ||||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 Apr 07 01:37 | ||||||
| This is easily the only place online or otherwise where people talk about this JVC error, and it is super overblown here.
The Panasonic machines actually have a much higher fail rate, between hard drives dying and unit that refuse to turn on (requires an unplug recycle, takes 3-5 hours off time). Other machines, like Phillips and Sony especially, have much worse, much more common mechanical failures. | ||||||
| TBoneit posted 2005 Apr 07 09:05 | ||||||
| Maybe but After having two (2) JVC VHS VCRs that were totally unreliable including one that was a high end S-VHS unit, I do not think I'll ever buy another JVC unit of any kind.
YMMV | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Apr 07 13:13 | ||||||
| Lord Smurf may be right about JVC getting a bum rap but it is hard to overcome a number of psychological reactions which have nothing to do with the product at hand. These include first impressions, when most reviews are written, and the nature of the failure.
The first impression is formed fairly quickly. If there is a failure early on because of a manufacturing defect, it will strongly affect the opinion of the buyer, much more so than if the failure occurs six months later. Most reviews are written soon after purchase. An early failure will show up in reviews disproportionately if it occurs within the first month of the purchase. The nature of the failure also is important because all failures are not considered equal. A failure that leaves a product unuseable leaves a worse impression than a partial or intermittent failure. I would have to disagree about this place being the only place where the issue comes up. Here are some links to the epinions. com web site. The first regards a related product, the JVC DR-MV1S combo unit. Seven out of nine reviews complain about the loading problem. http://www.epinions.com/pr-JVC_DR-MV1S_DVD_Recorder_and_VCR_Camco ... y_~reviews There are only three reviews on the JVC DRM10, but two of three have the problem. http://www.epinions.com/pr-JVC_DRM10_DVD_Recorder_Player/display_~reviews | ||||||
| nickyboy4 posted 2005 Apr 07 21:39 | ||||||
| While I dont have a Panisonic DVR I have always bought their products and they have always been quality. I was all set to buy a Pany DVR but after researching here as well as reading many reviews I bought a Pioneer 220 and it has been perfect in every way.
In the course of my research then and till today I have seen this complaint about JVC everywhere, USA as well as Europe. This was not a small problem limited to a certain lot produced during a short time period. This is wide spread. Sorry but JVC has to be at the bottom of the list no matter how it performs after it is fixed. New products should not have to be fixed. Defending this or rationalizing by pointing fingers at other brands does not make sense. You are in breach of the forum rules and are being issued with a formal warning. While it is perfectly fine to disagree and give reasons, your constant 1-sentence "JVC sucks" posts are unneeded. If you have nothing new to add to this topic, do not reply in it anymore. People are sick of seeing you reply to this post every day with "JVC sucks". You've said it once in this thread, and that's enough. This warning is not for THIS POST, but rather for the 6 posts that have been removed from here. Stop it. This is TROLL activity and usually results in a ban. Only post when you have useful information and commentary. Not a "this sucks" drive-by post whoring. / Moderator lordsmurf | ||||||
| chendagam posted 2005 Apr 11 06:50 | ||||||
| I really like this unit, when it works. My biggest problem with JVC is their customer service. This unit should have been recalled. We should be able to take the unit back to the store and pick up a brand new one...one that effin' works. If I do have to get it reapired I should be able to take it to a local JVC repair center. When I called the local repair center, they told me they don't have the parts and I have to take it to the factory. Don't have the parts? Get the effin' parts then. I'm the victim here, not them. Even if I have to take it directly to the factory, let me drop it off. Don't make me pay $50 to mail it out to them and worrry about it getting "lost" in the mail. | ||||||
| ejai posted 2005 Apr 11 11:53 | ||||||
| I would not recommend JVC or Panasonic recorders because both machines have issues and I own both. The JVC has issues with contrast and very soft looking video causing loss of detail and true light tones. The Panasonic has a more sharper image but suffers from macro blocks.
I just puchased a Samsung HL-P5085W DLP HDTV and watched video made using both machines and what I exclaimed in other posts continue to show even more using this set. Both machines have issues that hopefully are addressed in the newer machines. Stay away from both of them. 8) | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Apr 17 09:37 | ||||||
| Is there any possible way to fix this problem at home ?
I have electronic reparing skills. Even have service manual for this model (DR-M10). My problem is after a few days of working green lines randomly appers on screen. If I unplug unit from power supply nad after few minuts switch it again everything is fine for next few days. They more looks like Any ideas ? | ||||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 Apr 17 13:01 | ||||||
Sure there is! :D :D Many home users have fixed other machines (Apex, Cyberhome, etc). You can too. All you need do is find out what is different on a "fixed" unit and a "virgin" unit. Maybe a kind JVC tech will tell you. Many of the "service centers" are just JVC contracts, so the people are not "JVC employees" (as it is with almost ALL electronics/video/photo service/repair centers these days .. Sony, Nikon, Canon, etc), so they will let you know on the phone. Give it a try. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Apr 17 17:34 | ||||||
| heh I guess there is only way for me to find a virgin unit is to buy one ))) even though, I will takes so much time to compare .... the reason I decided to fix it by myself is because in service center , where my JVC spent 1 month , return it to me and say that they didn`t found any malfunction - sure they turn it on work few hours and nothing happens I try to tell them that it need few days of working to make sympthoms apper - nothing! I suspect my problems is in power supply part - some kind of filter missing pulsed current and it makes video signal control section works unstable. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Apr 19 14:35 | ||||||
| Just got message from JVC center - they says that will not guide nor help people to repair something by themselfs unless they will have authorization from JVC to repair (((
Maybe here is somebody who working in somekind of service cnters and can give some advises ? | ||||||
| chendagam posted 2005 Apr 27 21:24 | ||||||
| For now I beat them at their own game. I bought a new unit and got a new receipt with a new date. Packed up the piece of crap unit in the box and took it back. Hopefully I'll get another 6 months out of the deal and then I'll just repeat the cycle. I went into the store today and they just put the unit on the open box table and knocked $20 off of it. Can you believe it? I used that thing for 9 months, it's a piece of crap and now some poor cheap (insert bad word here) is going to take that one home....effin' JVC | ||||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 Apr 27 21:58 | ||||||
| Blame the store for that one. They're supposed to return defective merchandise, not re-shelve it. Please let us know what store this is. | ||||||
| chendagam posted 2005 Apr 27 22:24 | ||||||
| Best Buy...who else. They are notorious for re-shelving crap. I had to lie and tell the guy I didn't like the features. I figured they would at least plug the thing in. He just looked it over and said "everything looks fine here." I hate playing games but JVC leaves us no choice. | ||||||
| spectroelectro posted 2005 Apr 28 00:21 | ||||||
| I have a JVC DRM10 that only gives the "loading" error if it's left plugged in for more than about 10 hours. Solution? Unplug the DVD recorder every night when I'm not using it. Works like a charm. No "loading" problem as long as the unit is left unplugged each night. I can record for 8 or 10 hours at
a stretch with no issues, but the unit simply has to be completely unplugged for a few hours each day to avoid the "loading" bug. Even with "power save" enabled the unit must be consuming power. Shutting it down and enabling power save isn't enough. The machine must be physically unplugged at night to avoid the "loading" error. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Apr 28 15:17 | ||||||
| It is better to get the JVC properly repaired, especially if it is free. The problem with continuing to use a unit that has resistors running too hot is not just that the resistors will eventually fail but in the mean time, the heat can cause your printed circuit boards base material to carbonize ( turn black and become crumbly ) giving little support to the copper traces.
Here is photo where a customer replaced a resistor with a different resistor with too small a power rating and the result on high grade FR4 pcb. The phenolic based boards in most consumer electronics degrades faster.  | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Apr 28 15:37 | ||||||
It sound like the common problem for overheating IC5101 on power supply unit. This IC used in most of power supplys not only DVD units also in TVsets and so on. And more often same thing happens with TVs but other units which are used them also suffering from it. Try to replace it - its 5 pins only STR-G6653-F9. Maybe putting on a bit larger heatsink. When unit is on its been cooling by fan, but when it off (not powersave mode) it getting hot like hell - even top cover becomes warm. At technical specifications written that STR can operate at max temp +125C but seems like it works too close to this limit. Maybe overheating happens because of "resistors" problem. I dunno much about it - if somebody knows - let me know! :D | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Apr 28 15:58 | ||||||
| Perhaps this will be of some help.
" Re[3]: Sony/JVC Service Spare Parts abraham r - 8th Apr 2005 14:06 On mine it was R5107 value 680 ohms that blew (feedback for the strg6653). Just in case, on mine R5106 = 3.9Kohms and R5108=0.33ohms, R5104=1Kohms, R5102=1.2KOhms. The R5107 is rated at 1/16Watt so a regular resistor should do the job fine. The strg6653 seems to be the main cause of problems, on mine the PCB was browner due to the heat. I would recommend adding some thermal compound to the heatsink & adding a front facing TO-220 heat sink to help dissapate more heat. Let me know if you need more help." I believe it was Lordsmurf who first mentioned the resistor overheat problem but perhaps it is the STR G6653 that is the real culprit. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Apr 28 18:02 | ||||||
| Mig-45
Does your unit look like this photo? http://horrordvds.uw.hu/jvc/jvc03.jpg I downloaded the STR-G6653 data sheet. It says it has an overmolded package for dielectric isolation. That should mean there are no voltages on the heatsink tab. I would check first with an voltmeter just to be safe. If there is no voltage on the heatsink, you may be able to run a copper strap from the top of the heatsink and attach it to the bottom of the metal case. That should get rid of some heat. The photo shows an area directly below the heatsink which looks accessible. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Apr 28 19:36 | ||||||
| Owh! Can you please send me STR-G6653 datasheet to my Email - I have a bad scanned copy of it (
Yes, my board looks aboslutly the same way! And btw, I still have no solution for my problem....maybe some ppl here from service station ? :wink: | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Apr 28 19:42 | ||||||
| Here is the web site where I downloaded the spec. sheet. I will post it here just in case there are others interested in it.
http://www.datasheetarchive.com/datasheet/pdf/10/1040992.html | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Apr 28 20:04 | ||||||
| Got it! Thanks a lot! )
Here is how my screen look on a final stage (after a week of working, powersave off)" 
As I wrote switching power off completly helps for few days or switching powersave mode. More I look at this sympthoms , the more it seems that problem is in power supply part. :| | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Apr 29 12:19 | ||||||
| As I mentioned to someone else with an M10, if you suspect heating in the power supply as the problem, do this. Get a can of freeze spray usually available from a radio/TV/electronics store. When the problem occurs, use the spray a little at a time on the component you suspect. Do this component by component. The spray is very localized. You can often locate the bad part this way. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Apr 29 14:50 | ||||||
| Hmm never heard about such spray! Can you tell exact name of it ? | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Apr 29 15:04 | ||||||
Here is a photo of the one we use. I forgot you were in Russia. It might be necessary to do a search under similar names to find something like it. In the US these sprays used to be Freon but that has been phased out because the Freon depletes ozone.
 | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Apr 29 15:33 | ||||||
If you find the spray, be careful not to apply it too fast. Here is a photo of how it only took about three seconds for the spray to create frost on this printed circuit board.
 | ||||||
| Bix posted 2005 Apr 29 16:22 | ||||||
| With sprays like that, make sure to hold it at a distance, too. | ||||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 Apr 29 20:45 | ||||||
| This remind me of one of my friends in high school, who's engine was overheating, so he poured some water on it. The block cracked.
Do not blast a jet of COLD air (or worse, the liquid propellant from holding the can sideways or upside down). It'll kill your machine. Bad bad bad bad bad bad advice. Do not do it. If you want to hold a can 20 inches away, without the straw, and blast a couple short bursts of 1 seconds each, that would be fine. You want to blow away the hot air AROUND the overheated object, not blow ON the object itself. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Apr 29 23:40 | ||||||
| The straw is for hard to reach places not really for concentrating the spray. These products were developed for troubleshooting intermittent electronic products in industry. There are directions on the back of the can which state pretty much what others have stated here. Unfortunately, there have been enough incidents where attention is not paid to these instructions. You can imagine the consequences. They are not unlike the engine situation.
The other technique is to use a heat gun or hair dryer to heat areas to force the problem to occur. This is not for novices. There is more risk with heat because a weak component with a little extra heat may fail. To make it worse, with DC coupled circuits, the failure can cascade so one part failure will take out other parts that were good. That is why a little cold applied sparingly is safer. If you can localize it, you have a chance to replace the weak part before it fails and takes out other parts. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Apr 30 05:21 | ||||||
| oh well! Maybe there is another way to locate the weak part ? )
I suppose, if this is a power supply problem, then spectrum analyzer maybe usefull to check power buses (+1.8, +5v) on different locations to see if ther is any pulses! Btw, I measured +1.8 (its been widely useing on digital board) and in my unit it is +2v in fact. Is that above limit ? | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Apr 30 13:08 | ||||||
| Without a schematic it is not possible to say. The STR-G6653 is a switching regulator, but it can regulate only one voltage. Usually that is the +5V which is used by the integrated circuits. The +5V transformer has more than one secondary. The secondaries provide all the other voltages but they are only indirectly regulated ( the STR-G6653 does not examine their outputs ) so they can show more variation in output. A low voltage like 1.8V is most often used to drive LED's which do not reguire extremely accurate voltage. The 1.8V may have other uses but it is not clear without the schematic.
Any additional regulation of the other secondaries on the transformer are done with local linear regulators. Most linear regulators will be accurate to about +/- 0.1 V. If you have a spectrum analyzer, you can check a second possibilty. Monitor the +5V and see if there is any unexpected signal. Find out what frequency the STR-G6653 is using. It will typically be above 50 KHz. Then look for an unrelated signal not harmonically related when the problems occur. PS Have Radio Shack stores made it to Russia? They sell freeze spray. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Apr 30 16:39 | ||||||
| yes, I saw freeze spray in shops - 9 USD here )
But, I have schematic of DR-M10 and STR regulate complete part of power supply - not only 5v. And 1.8 in common used by main processor - DMN 8652 (LSI DoMiNo). So, that why I asking. I have no way to measure this voltage on digital board, near the chip because this module is covered by metal shield and its hard to open it because it ironed to boards edge. :wink: | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Apr 30 20:02 | ||||||
| Is there anyway for you to send a copy of the schematic? | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Apr 30 20:09 | ||||||
| Sure its in pdf format - can send to you by Email )
I bought it from nearest repair service - costs about 20 USD ) | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Apr 30 20:24 | ||||||
| That will make it easier. The DMN 8652 does use 1.8V for its core but for some reason the accuracy of that voltage has been left off the web info sheet.
It may be Monday before it is possible to determine what is acceptable for the 1.8V. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 May 01 06:24 | ||||||
| cool! so if you still want to get schematic (service manual) - gimme in pm your Email - I`ll send ya! | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 01 17:34 | ||||||
| I received the manual. It helps a lot. The source of the +1.8V is IC5302, PQ5EV3. Here is a link to the data sheet for the PQ5EV3 made by Sharp.
http://document.sharpsma.com/files/pq5ev7_e.pdf The output voltage (V0) of this variable regulator is determined by the formula, V0 = 1.24 ( 1 + R5319/R5320 ) = 1.24 ( 1 + 3K/4.7K ) = 2.03V Seems the designer intended that the 1.8V should be 2.0V. Tomorrow we will find out if the DMN-8652 likes that. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 May 01 19:05 | ||||||
| yeah 2.03 is the exact voltage I measured from PQ5EV3 output! But anyway, I feel somehow that its not the reason of such behaviour. Those pulsations start appears after few days 4-7 of working. So its more l looks like some kind of filter or regulator overheats and start making noise on power buses.
p.s. PQ5EV3 heating la lot also and have no heatsink - I think attaching heatsink to it is the first and easiest thing I`m gonna do | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 01 19:39 | ||||||
| If it were a power supply voltage issue, measure all the voltages while it is working right. When it fails, measure all the voltages again and see if there is a difference.
LSI does not say what the accuracy of the 1.8V should be but they are not the only ones making a 1.8V core. IDT, AMI, AMD, and TI all make 1.8V core devices. AMI says it must be 1.8V +/-5%. TI and AMD say 1.8V +/-0.1V. Here is AMD's spec. 1.8V ± 0.1V core Raising the 1.8V to 2.0V increases the power consumption of the core 11%. If this is out of spec., no one can be sure what the core will do. It is much too complex a part. | ||||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 May 01 19:53 | ||||||
Please post an image of any mod you make like this. Be good to see. I had to add heatsinks to my LiteOn 5001 unit LSI chip to help dissipate heat, and it worked quite well. The newer ones come with heatsinks already. I guess they were trying to cut corners. Few DVD recorders have adequate heat dissipating devices (heat plates, heatsinks, etc) across all parts of the system. Though the JVC loading problem, in the minority of machines it shows up in, is still power-related. I think heatsink additions are just a "just in case" kind of addition, not a dire need. But it's one I'd make myself. The RAM heatsinks are best, take a hacksaw to it, cut it in half, then file/sand down the rough edges real smooth. They usually come with heat tape, too. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 01 20:25 | ||||||
| The PQ5EV3 has a max. operating temperature of 80 degrees C. which is pretty good for a commercial grade part. If you have a thermometer and can measure the temp. of the part, it might be interesting to know, but this kind of part normally has a thermal shutdown circuit so it turns off if it overheats.
P.S. Unplug the unit from the wall to work on it. C5003 looks like it might have around 300VDC on it when it is plugged in even when off. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 May 02 15:00 | ||||||
| Well, just to let you know - in DR-M10 in fact digi board is in sorta can. It is in closed space of shield and top part of is bumped (I thought its been done to make it contacted LSI chip to become sorta heat sink), in fact there is about 1mm space between chip and bumped cover, so instead if beeing a heatsink its work in reverse way - keeping hot air under it ((( | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 May 02 15:05 | ||||||
Btw, what was wrong with LiteOn ? and what heatsink type you used for LSI ? | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 02 15:20 | ||||||
| Is this the can with the dimple?
http://horrordvds.uw.hu/jvc/jvc04.jpg I am waiting for LSI to call back with a data sheet on the DMN-8652. Looks like the manual has an error. It identifies the part as DMA-8652-B0. LSI says it must be a misprint, but the B0 is a version code. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 May 02 17:22 | ||||||
| Yes , indeed it is the can ) Inside - all digiboard - DDR, LSI & and other controllers - as far as I know, they all must have good cooling....
Ofcourse B0 is version code, because, as I noticed in manual lots of parts has been written including version codes! | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 02 17:46 | ||||||
| I was out of the office today, so I asked one of our buyers to get a data sheet for the DMN-8652. The part is not considered a general distribution part so a data sheet is not available. I have a request in to LSI for the tolerance of the +1.8V for their core since the core is used for many of their products. It will be tomorrow before we know. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 03 19:22 | ||||||
| I am disappointed that nothing has been heard from LSI today possibly because of a mix-up about who was to contact us. I do think that the power supply is a likely candidate for problems. Here is why,
These are the operating and standby power requirements of a number of popular recorders, JVC DR-M10 33 watts/ 17.6 watts standby Lite-On 5005 45 watts/ 9 watts standby Panasonic ES10 23 watts/ 9 watts standby Pioneer 220S 31 watts/ 0.68 watts standby The M10 has nearly double the power consumption in standby compared to the next nearest products. The Pioneer is at an amazing 0.68 watts. | ||||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 May 03 19:57 | ||||||
The LiteOn has image jitters and the drive insides whines (audio may get hissy too as a result) from excessive heat. The earliest LiteOn units had no fans, no heatsinks, and no vent holes in the case. It was a portable oven, could burn your finger, a fire hazard almost. I took off the top case and drilled holes in the sides for vents. I took a RAM heatsink and hacksawed it in half and stuck it on the LSI chip with thermal tape. I took a PC fan and added a switch to the unit so I could turn it on/off. My unit does not have a connection for a "power button" controlled on/off for the fan. It was about $30 in parts from Fry's and/or Radio Shack. The unit still can get hot, so I propped open the lid for now. I need to drill more holes in it, and I turned the fan on high. The new ones have no such issues, not really. It's these old clunkers that need the heavy modding. I no longer get jitter. The machine just needed good cooling. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 May 04 05:55 | ||||||
Its easy explainable - because as I explored the only analog output part is switiching off in standby (NOT powersave mode). In this mode 1.8 v & 5v keep powering digi board so all digital parts including DVD drive itself are under current and keep warming! Only in powersave mode this voltages goes off and all parts except powersupply switiching off. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 04 15:32 | ||||||
| I have been analyzing the schematic to see what is turned off in "power save" mode. Can you tell if the following "jumpers" in the power supply schematic are in your unit. A "jumper' is a wire connection. I assume it is the Euro unit.
On the schematic they are labelled as follows, B5504, B5506, B5302, B5505, B5503, B5303, B5301, B5001, B5304, B5501. Some of these connection ( if they exist ) affect "power save" mode. For example, if B5501 is really there, then the +3.9V cannot be turned off by Q5310. Here is something to think about. If you want to cool the M10 with the fan any time it is plugged in, there is a way. I have identified the fan control circuit. It is an alternative to adding more heat sinks but may be noisy. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 May 04 16:16 | ||||||
| So here they are:
B5504 - yes, seems like there is resistor 1 ohm instead of jumper B5506 - no B5302 - yes B5505 - no B5503 - no B5303 - yes B5301 - no, diod instead B5001 - no B5304 - yes B5501 - no Waiting for results ) | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 May 04 18:50 | ||||||
Besides, as I says before, I add a small heatsink to PQ5EV3!
 | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 04 19:40 | ||||||
| Missed one. B5502.
P.S. That was a good effort with the heatsink but that small a heatsink will have little effect. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 May 04 20:08 | ||||||
5502 - have no jumper. ) I know its not big heatsink but this was the one I have - better then nothing, and if the reason will be in PQ5EV3 then, I will buy bigger heatsink ! | ||||||
| BSR posted 2005 May 04 21:44 | ||||||
| If you look at the silkscreen on the PCB where you put that heatsink, it looks as if the designer made provisions and room for it, but it was never added when the circuit board was built.:roll:
Or, maybe they thought they didn't need it, and the users are finding out otherwise. :o | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 05 00:22 | ||||||
| The jumper information helped a lot. Can you measure the DC voltage across capacitor C5307 under these three conditions on/off/off power save? | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 May 05 14:28 | ||||||
I`ve got interesting results: On - 5,73v Standby - 5,74v Standby (powersave) - 5,77v Also I measured temperature of some parts - D5309, D5310, D5305, Q5308 and PQ5EV3 - all of them are hot about +60C ! "Digital can" heated upto +45C ! I guess there is also about +60C under it ( | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 05 15:44 | ||||||
| The jumper information told me that all power to the dvd-ram drive and to CN5102 sheet 10 is off in power save mode. That leaves power only on CN5301 which goes to CN5101, sheet 10. The voltages that remain on in power save mode are -29V, AL-12V, AL12V, SW12V, SW5V, AL5.3V, 48V, 17V as described on CN5301 ( upper right connector, sheet 1 ). AL12V is what runs the fan so it is possible to run the fan even in power save mode.
The voltage you measured at about +5.75V is exactly correct. +5.75 is the calculated value from the parts used to set this voltage. The switching power supply only controls one voltage directly. This is the one. It should be very accurate and it is. The temperature measurements are not good news. If your room temp. is about 23 degrees C. and you are measuring 60 on these parts then the temperature rise is 37 degrees C. The M10 is spec'ed to work from +5 to +40 degrees C. but at 40 degrees C plus 37 will be 77 degrees C. That will be very close to the max. rating for the PQ5EV3. The STR-G6653 has a large operating temperature range by comparison -20 to +125 degrees C. The use of D5310, D5309, D5308 is to lower the voltage applied to the PQ5EV3. These devices absorb power that would otherwise be absorbed by PQ5EV3. The purpose of D5305 is similar. Transformer T5001 could have been designed to supply a lower voltage then these parts would not be necessary. It is hard to know the reason for this. JVC may be using T5001 is other products and want to use the same part for example. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 May 05 16:39 | ||||||
| In other words, only 2 voltages - 1.8v & 5v are off in powersave mode - they are main power for digital board. I can tell you why I start checking digital board - I analyzied the sympthoms and found that those nasty green lines not only appers over screen but also can be recorded to disc, so this means that reason of such behaviour can be in LSI or video/in out controller. Also I waited when green lines cover all screen it looks like a rain drops from right side of screen to left (like shown on screenshots) and after a few hours of such work unit been resets itself - Loading appers on front pannel. It wasnt Loading problem like ppl described - it was LSI reboot because of bus errors - screen start destroying to block units (like when RAM fails). So I decided to chech power lines goest to digital board and find out its only 5v & 1.8 v. Thats why I start cheching this voltages. Also, this doesn`t affects audio. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 05 17:06 | ||||||
| From sheet 1, power supply section
The following connectors should have no power in power save mode. CN5305 has 12V for fan off CN5304 has DV12V, DV5V, DV3.3V, DV1.8V all off. CN5303 has DV12V, DV5V all off CN5302 has D1.8V, D2.5V, D3.3V all off By digital board, I assume you mean from the manual "media processor" which is the DMN-8652. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 May 05 18:13 | ||||||
| yes, exactly ! Btw, what for is 5.3v (5.7 in fact) ? I cannot understand. | ||||||
| 2left posted 2005 May 06 02:37 | ||||||
Lordsmurf: Sounds like you have a personal beef with anyone complaining about this unit. Anyway, before you make blanket statements like "nobody ever complains of it breaking again," you should do some research. Check out this AVS Forum thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=157b4a352f296e87a ... genumber=1 | ||||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 May 06 02:48 | ||||||
| No, complain away. But be prepared for people to tell you "just because it happens to you, doesn't mean it happens to everybody". People pretty much only find this site because they have video problems or are new/confused, hence the saying "more complainers than not".
Until today, nobody had complained of it ever breaking again, so my research was perfectly sound. At this point, you should investigate whether or not they PROPERLY fixed it, that is to replace the power supply parts that are in question. Your paperwork should show what was done. Report back on it, let us know what's been done to it. Especially since some of the posters in this thread are actively trying to see what causes this issue. My gut feeling is that, from reading you AVS posts, the JVC tech that FIRST "repaired" your unit messed up. Because the SECOND time you had them replace another part. Those resistors could be bad. I saw somebody suggest you do before/after shots of the "guts" of the unit. Did you do this? Maybe some half-ass tech botched it, or didn't do it at all (in the "repair" game, for any company, that's not uncommon). I hope you also realize that crap media, and the associated read errors, will trip up the "loading" error, meaning it cannot load the media. That could be part of the problem too. What is the MEDIA ID of the discs you are trying to use? There is NOTHING NEW in that AVS thread, and quite honestly, some really bad guesses and assumptions from some of the posters in that thread. JVC knows what's wrong, and they are fixing it. Unlike LiteOn/Panasonic/Toshiba/Sony and some of the others out there, where if you get a defective unit, you're just out of luck. And BTW: Leave the attitude on your end of the keyboard this time. Forums are for helping each other, not attacking others (and therefore making it personal). Just present your information for open discussion. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 06 04:50 | ||||||
| The +5.75V level is determined by four parts, R5304, R5305, R5306, and IC5301. Not sure why it is labelled AL5.3 on connector CN5301. It is a safe voltage on the power supply board since C5307 is rated at 10V.
What worries me is that AL5.3 goes to the system controller on sheet 12. There it goes through two small inductors, L3001 and L7201 to C7202 and C7203 which are rated at only 6.3V. Do R5304, R5305, R5306 have a gold colored band on one end and can you measure the actual voltage across C7202 sheet 12? | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 May 06 05:19 | ||||||
| R5304, R5305, R5306- those are on sheet 1 ? | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 06 12:08 | ||||||
| yes | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 May 06 15:46 | ||||||
| So, I measured voltage across capasitor C7202 :
standby mode - 5,71v on - 5,69v standby powersave 5,74v About resistors - I don`t see any bands on them ( Here is the pic of them:  | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 06 16:53 | ||||||
| This is good information. First the voltage measurements indicate in power save mode that C7202 has +5.74V across it which is 91% of its rating. It is unusual but not fatal to the part to do this.
Do you see C3042 on the same sheet 12 ( left middle )? It is the same kind of part but the designer reduced the voltage to it by placing D3004 in series with AL5.3 which reduces the +5.75V to about +5V. C3042 is operating at 79% of max. rating. It was disappointing that R5304, R5305, and R5306 are chip resistors. I was hoping to determine the tolerance of these parts. If we know the tolerance we can calculate the accuracy of the +5.75V. My concern is if the tolerance is too loose, the +5.75V might be able to exceed the 6.3 rating for C7202. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 May 06 18:00 | ||||||
| While measuring last time, I replace heatsink of PQ5EV3 - since as you noticed it was too smal, now I put same heatsink as JVC used for this part in their MV1 (or whatever it names) - its hybrid DVD-VHS recorder, it have about the same power supply and I saw on pic the original size of PQ5EV3`s heatsink. So now , after 6 hours of working without fan (standby mode) its only 42C !
Speaking about planar resistors - as you can see in service manual part list they are 1/16W. So, lets imagine that somehow voltage exceeds limit of 6.3v onthose capasitors - what happens then ? | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 06 18:20 | ||||||
| Not the R5304, R5305, and R5306. The power in those is only 1.55 mW, 0.55 mW, and 1.6 mW. 1/16 W is 62.5 mW.
Can you measure the -29V on CN5301, pin 3? I do not think it a problem but there may be an error in the schematic on sheet 14. Do you see D7021? It seems this is a 9.1V zener sitting between the -3.9V and the -29V supply. If this is really true then -29V may be reduced to -3.9V-9.1V = -13V. It does not seem possible because it this happened, R5314 sheet 1 would be too hot. If the voltage becomes to high, the capacitor will start to fail. Sometimes they become open circuit. If they short, it can be very messy. They can get very hot and start to leak material. These parts create capacitance via a chemical reaction. P.S. Good job on the heatsink | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 May 06 18:53 | ||||||
| Measured - its -29v when unit is on, and -28v when unit is off. Resistor 5314 is quiet warm +45C | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 06 19:11 | ||||||
| -3.9V, +3.9V, and -29V are only used by the display driver. I do not believe they are the source of any problems but the schematic must have an error (a missing part ).
I have traced the disposition of every active power supply voltage in power save mode and have found nothing out of the ordinary with the design. -17V does not appear to used by the M10 AL5.3V is used only on sheet 12 ( system controller ) DC3.9(+) is used onlyby the vacuum flourescent display DC3.9(-) same as above -29V is used only by the display driver IC AL-12V is used on sheet 8 ( audio section ) to supply IC8301, IC8302 and sheet 11 ( input/output terminal section ) as power for a switch. AL12V is only used on sheet 8 to supply IC8301, 8302, 8303, and 8202. SW12V is used on sheet 11 to power discrete amplifiers and sheet 12 where it is divided down to +4.4V and connected to the cpu "protect" input. SW5V is used on sheet 5, 9, 11, and 12. On 5, 9, and 11 it is used as power supply for discrete amplifiers and IC's. On sheet 12, it is used only as a clamp to prevent the cpu "protect" voltage from exceeding +5.7V +48V is used only on sheet 12 to drive a transistor switch which holds the cpu "power_det" input low. The only unusual findings have been that the +1.8V to the LSI processor has been set at +2.05V which has a spec. of +1.8V and that the AL5.3V has been set high as well, to +5.75V which puts it very close to the maximum rating for C7202 and C7203 on the system processor board. Other parts run hot but they should not be failing at room temperature. I suspect the "Loading" problem is related to AL5.3V. This voltage is determined by three resistors and one IC. The other +5V power in the M10 is labelled SW5V. SW5V has its output voltage determined by only one part, a zener diode. AL5.3V only supplies the system controller which is probably the source of the "Loading" message. I hope this is the answer because the repair cost is pennies. AL5.3V and the +1.8V to the LSI processor are the only voltages in the M10 that are determined by resistors. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 07 03:27 | ||||||
Here is information regarding LSI's recommended operating voltage for a +1.8V core device.
 | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 May 07 03:40 | ||||||
| Well, it very interesting indeed. Especialy information regarding LSi core voltage. I don`t have loading problem anyway - only green lines after long time of working. I was thinking about ways of lowing down 2v to 1.8v but I`m affraid it affects other parts those as you can see also use this voltage. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 07 04:45 | ||||||
| Is that D1.8V used by any other device? It seems to go from the sheet 1 to sheet 10 to sheet 5 to sheet 4 ( 8652 ) then to sheet 3. I see no devices using it except the 8652. Sheet 3 is ddr sdram but the sdram uses +2.5V. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 May 07 08:38 | ||||||
| Yes, its D1.8V. IF you trace this line, you`ll notice that it also comes to videocontroller. On sheet 4 it separating into lines (just before C1419) one goes to DMN, other goes to sheet 5 (on manual there is by mistake written to sheet 3) it goes as VDDI1.8V. On sheet 5 its first from top left comes to pins 94, 129, 150,154, 173, 149, 147, 168, 144,143, 141 & 101 of IC1001 (JSP8059) (btw I have no datasheet on it - so its a blackbox for me). | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 07 14:04 | ||||||
| I see what you are saying. D1.8V goes from sheet 1 to sheet 10 to sheet 5 to sheet 4, then comes back out from sheet 4 as VDDI1.8. VDDI1.8 goes back to sheet 5 again and does not go to sheet 3 as shown in the manual.
This seems very odd since sheet 5 already has D1.8V. Can you confirm that JCP8059 uses +1.8V and are there any markings on JCP8059 which indicate the manufacturer? | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 May 07 15:22 | ||||||
| Its not that easy - because JCP is inside the can (under metalic cover shield). And as I wrote before - shield is soldered to the board ((
Talking about 1.8v goes from one sheet to another - it doesn`t odd because in fact all those sheets - main processor, videocontroller, DDR are on one physical board, and this long lines traveling from one sheet to another and back are result of breaking one schematic into many parts ) . | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 07 15:43 | ||||||
| It will be difficult to find out more about the JCP without unsoldering the can. I can find no information on this part on the Internet not even who makes it. Can you see if the +1.8V really goes to the can?
Regarding the "loading" comment earlier. I did not mean to say you had the problem only that it would be interesting to see what could cause it in other M10's. Here are a few comments from other sites about it, "Upon asking them more questions, they said that to add capacitors, they'll sauter a few more things onto the control board." "They stated that JVC is aware of the malfunction and it is due to needing a few capacitors install to update the unit to prevent this malfunction." From this same thread, "POWER SAVE (off) is to blame, in conjunction with faulty resistors from what appeared to be a bad summer '04 shipment (NTSC only)." Only AL5.3V has something in common with all these comments. It provides a +5.75VDC to two capacitors rated at only +6.3VDC located in the system controller. The value of AL5.3V is set by resistors. AL5.3V rises to its maximum voltage in "power save mode". | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 May 07 15:52 | ||||||
| Ah I see now what all those resistor issues was related to! Now its clear why you tracking AL5.3V. But regarding loading problem I also read that there is ROM update took place in some cases. I will wait if green lines appers to unsoldering can and also will try to add heatsink to DMN - then I also will be able to get more information about JCP and 1.8 voltage. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 07 17:56 | ||||||
| We already know that +2.05V is too much for the DMN-8652. It is possible it is too much for the JCP8059 too. There are not too many modern IC's that operate on +2V. Most are +3.3, +2.5, +1.8, or +1.2V.
I was thinking if there could be a reason for why they do this. One possibility is that they are trying to share power dissipation with those IC's. The PQ5EV3 gets less hot if the output voltage is raised but the JCP8059 and DMN-8652 will get more hot. D5308, D5309, D5310 are used to lower the input voltage to PQ5EV3. This helps the PQ5EV3 get less hot but the diodes get hot. I will wait and see if you have more information on the JCP8059 later, but I suspect this D1.8V is the bad guy in your M10. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 May 07 18:34 | ||||||
| Probably you right. But what seems strange to me that as we found 2v are normal with resistors using with PQ5EV3 - so designers had in mind that there will be exactly 2v not 1.8 shown in manual! I mean that if it is the reason then all ppl who bought M10 should have this problem if not fromt he begining then later. I only hope that this fact didn`t damage any of those huge chips! | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 07 23:25 | ||||||
| Every IC is different. The manufacturer has a specification so that essentially all the product will work inside the specification. Outside the specification, some will have a problem but not all. Do you notice that the DMN-8652 can work successfully if the voltage is 0.18V low but it will have a problem with only 0.09V high.
I am thinking that even if the JSP8059 is designed to use +2V, it will still be safe to operate with .11V low. If this is true, the DMN-8652 will be at +1.89V which LSI says is safe and quaranteed. I think the 8652 is an important part and it is not a good idea to operate it outside of the manufacturers recommended region. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 May 08 05:48 | ||||||
| I agree. I would like to prepare components to low down 2v to 1.8. How you suggest me to do this ? | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2005 May 08 06:43 | ||||||
| Hiya Mig-45,
We have spoken by email regarding DR-MV1S which I am working on solving the "Loading" issue but this forum is for M10 so I hope my suggestion is welcome. I am seeing many similarities between the two, as you would expect as pcb's are often shared between designs. The Sw Reg /Junction pcb in DR-MV1S is a different shape to that on the M10 but the circuit is virtually identical. However bear in mind that resistor idents Rxxxx etc may vary. I have reduced the PQ5EV3 output to +1.77V (measured) already. This was done by making R5318 (3K) resistor into 2.2k. I did this not by replacing the part, but by paralleling 7.8k across the 3k to make 2.17k which gave a theoretical voltage of 1.813V and a practical (measured) voltage of 1.77v. I also have a large TO-220 heatsink on that regulator although touching it it doesn't get very warm. Incidentally the MV1S schematic shows R5318 as 47k but on the board is a 3.0k part. Looks like another error. I did not have time to evaluate each change individually in true scientific style, so I have made other changes as well: - reduce R5313 (39R 1/2W) in the fan circuit to zero ohms, to make the fan run at full speed. - also created extra ventilation holes as the more I study this unit I think that the digital board (in shiny metal screen) is getting far too hot under prolonged use. I also have power-save on. In conclusion I have seen "Loading" occur before but not since making the modification, and never seen green lines, but the problem I have is that when dubbing (vcr and dvd decks both in operation) the unit does not complete a disc (normally 30-60mins only) and then stops with a part-written disc which is unreadable. Good job I'm using -RW discs... | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 May 08 08:43 | ||||||
| Well good job!Thank you very much for the information. But talking about my case - in M10 temperature condition when units is working are better - fan do a good job, and holes on sides near front panel make air flows through unit and hot air then removing with fan. I wonder is that metal screen on digi board is requared ? I`m not sure about that because M10 body is metalic and grounded.
Also analyzing scheme I suppose that JCP is a pack of DAC/ADCs - this is proves by different points where Vdcc applyied and logicaly where comes inputs and outputs - but I will check it for more in formation in next few days as soon as green lines appears and I will open metal shield. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 08 14:22 | ||||||
| Here is the equation for determining the D1.8V with present values.
V0 = 1.24 ( 1 + R5319/R5320 ) = 1.24 ( 1 + 3K/4.7K ) = 2.03V The manual lists the part numbers for R5319 and R5320 as NRAS63D-302X and NRAS63D-472X, respectively. These are not ordinary resistors. The "D" in the p/n indicates these are 0.5% tolerance parts. Since two are used, the max. variation on this voltage will be approximately +2.03V +/-1% or +2.01 to +2.05V. Once I found the tolerance code of these parts, I was able to determine that R5304, R5305, R5306 are also 0.5% parts. These are considered precision parts and may be harder to find. Here is a link to one manufacturer of such parts, http://www.rohm.com/products/shortform/26rstr/rstr_index.html#2 The metal can is needed to prevent transmission of noise associated with fast digital parts from affecting other circuits inside the M10. To emlsnws, The 12VDC fan will run faster and work even if +14VDC is applied. Check the actual voltage across the fan when removing resistors. If it exceeds +12VDC, the fan will run faster but reliability will go down. The second purpose of the resistor is to limit the current drawn by the fan drive transistor in case of a short. Without the resistor, a short will blow the transistor. | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2005 May 08 15:02 | ||||||
| Thanks :)
Yes, I think the shiny metal screen around the digital board is excessive protection, especially for the "average domestic" environment, so if it solves some thermal problems and there are no problems caused by it (patterning on UHF television for example) then it could be removed. trhouse, I do see what you're saying. I am looking at an MV1S of course. My unit's layout has all the tuners etc which might be sensitive, on the other side of a metal screening wall. Perhaps the screening has been over-engineered for use in certain countries, I would do that myself (I'm an RF electronics designer). I doubt the amount of EMI escaping the unit will be increased by removing the 'inner' shielding. But if an experiment to see if thermal problems are solved by its removal proved successful, then a proper solution could be found (perhaps remove board from screen, drill lots of holes in screen, replace digital board). Small holes will still screen against the frequencies concerned due to the waveguide cut-off principle. It is also a problem that the shiny metal screen seems to be the only means of support for the digital board. Total removal would be a problem. On the MV1S (which may not be the case on M10) the digital board is mounted directly under the DVD drive, there's no place for warm air to rise to, it is trapped under the drive. Even the support bracket has closed-off ends and sides. This is probably my next modification - making the DVD drive support bracket open-sided & open-ended to allow air circulation. I also hear you that the fan going short will blow the transistor. I guess the proper protection device is a PTC thermistor/solid state fuse but a resistor is cheapest. The fan is somewhat noisy so I may well change the resistor back to a low value such as 10R when I find a full solution (while looking at the max current for the transistor concerned). I won't be working on my unit for a few days but will still read! | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 08 16:01 | ||||||
| It might be easier to fashion a new cover from some material such as in this link.
http://www.mcnichols.com/products/perforated/ This material is sometimes used to make covers for switching power supplies. There is one other possible reason for the shiny metal cover. The line diodes in switching power suppies cause some big current spikes because they are on only a very short time. It was necessary for us to shield a circuit from the magnetic field created by these spikes once. The shiny metal was mu-metal which is very conductive to low frequency magnetic field. It looks shiny because of the 77% nickel content. The mu-metal could not be used to shield the power supply directly because the magnetic field was so strong that the mu-metal saturated and was ineffective, but at the longer distance it worked. Mu-metal is 15% iron so it can be picked up with a magnet. | ||||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 May 08 17:24 | ||||||
This may or may not be the same thing you're talking about, I'm no engineer, but I have noticed a strong magnetic pull on the bottom left (or was it right?) or DR-M10S and DR-MV1S units. Placing them directly on top of a tv set will cause the image to go all haywire, where that part of the machine comes with 5-6 inches of the tubes. So, if this shielding is to prevent this, it's not very good. I have my DR-M10S sitting on top of a wooden desk. Compare this to an Apex DRX-9000 or a LiteOn 5001, both of which I have had sitting directly on the tv set, with no adverse side effects, each for prolonged period (6+ months). If that is of any importance... To be fair, my alarm clock and discman have the same affect on the tv. Cannot set either of them on top of the tv set. I actually ruined one tv from leaving an alarm clock on it for about a year. One day I moved it, and the picture turned completely purple on part of the screen. I have to leave the clock where it is, in order for the picture to look normal. I had no idea, one more lesson learned the hard way. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 May 08 17:49 | ||||||
| Those magnetic field generating by transformator in powersupply part. Same happens with alarm clock, I guess it also have 220(110) -> low voltage transformator. But you didn`t ruin your TV. All normal Tv sets have degauss system to remove magnetic from CRT mask. Usualy it works while you switching TV. If there is no scuh antimagnetic lap then there is a special devices to remove magnetism from CRT mask and other metalic things! | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 08 18:29 | ||||||
| It is not quite the same thing. EMI stands for electromagnetic interference. emlsnws is referring to radiated interference where if the signal is allowed to radiate out of the box, it will interfere with TV and radio via the antenna or getting inside the TV and interfering with signal levels like the common 10.7 MHz IF frequency. This type of interference can be stopped with aluminum since the culprit in this case is mostly electric field. Aluminum looks like a short to electric field.
I am referring to magnetic interference which aluminum cannot block. The lower left side of the M10 is the source of low frequency magnetic field. The case of the M10 must be steel or contain some iron prevent the magnetic field from escaping into a TV. Low frequency magnetic field goes through aluminum as if it were transparent. Place a sheet of any material that a magnet can pickup under the M10 and it should help. The magnetic field does not go away but it finds an easier path though the metal so does not spread. It is like an electrical short for magnetic field. Some materials like mu-mutal are more effective shorts. See if a magnet will stick to the case of your LiteOn or Apex. If it does, it is an effective magnetic shield. In this picture, do you see the part right above the heatsink with letters GBJ on it? That is the bridge rectifier that converts the 120VAC or 220VAC input into high voltage DC ( about 300VDC ). In doing so it creates sharp 120 Hz ( it is double the line frequency ) current spikes which are the source of the strong magnetic field. 
The reason your TV is permanently affected is because most TV's have little, tiny permanent magnets around the edge of the CRT to fine tune the picture as part of the convergence process ( in addition to the ones around the neck of the crt ). These tiny magnets are immersed in the field from the M10 and have the ability to remember the field to which they were exposed after the field is removed if the exposure is sufficiently strong or long. This is the principle of the old computer "core memory". P.S. Products like the M10 do not have transformers that operate at low frequency like 60 Hz. The way a switching power supply works is that it first converts the AC line input to a high DC voltage. The STR-G6653 then converts the high DC voltage to a high AC voltage probably at some frequency like 50 to 150 KHz. This high frequency signal is sent to a tiny transformer ( it is marked S223N in the photo and is just to the left of the heatsink ). The high frequency signal in the secondaries of the transformer are rectified to provide all the DC voltages. The advantage of this scheme, is high efficiency and small parts. Huge capacitors are needed to filter 60 Hz ripple but only tiny capacitors are needed for 50 KHz or higher. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 May 08 20:12 | ||||||
| This names pulse scheme of power supply ) Its widly used now except only Hi-Fi audio receivers imho. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 May 10 18:43 | ||||||
| So after all - I opened the can )
First of all - JCP8059 is native JVC chip ! (( LSI chip is DMN 8652 B0 - and I measured 1.8V on control point near the chip and it is 1.86V ! | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 10 21:02 | ||||||
| Is there something wrong with the schematic? It shows the +2.03V going directly to the DMN-8652. | ||||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 May 11 02:35 | ||||||
JVC does have it's own chips in the unit, as it has DigiPure processing of the image. Not sure where that falls, or if this is the chip, but just to confirm, yes, JVC has some of it's own tech in the unit too. The JVC tech is the reason this LSI unit is slightly better than other LSI units. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 11 04:02 | ||||||
| There is only one other IC with a similar p/n and that is IC4001 ( p/n JCP8038 ). JVC provides more information about the 8038's function which is mostly video switching and filtering such as selecting the tuner or a front panel input.
The JCP8059 looks like it takes the DMN-8652 digital video output and converts it to analog. The DMN-8652 has its own noise processing as well described below,  | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 May 11 04:37 | ||||||
| trhouse
As I suspected , JCP is pack of DAC/ADC convertors. It explains why i1.8 applys in different points | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 May 11 18:41 | ||||||
| So, are there any more ideas what to check next ? | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 11 19:05 | ||||||
| I am concerned that we do not understand what happened to 0.17 volts from D1.8V to the the DMN-8652 or was that +1.86V measured at the JCP8059? That is a lot of voltage lost. It would take an ampere of current and .17 ohm of resistance in the pc board to cause that. Can you measure the resistance from D1.8V to the point where you measured the +1.86V? If we know that we can determine the current and if the current value is reasonable.
There is also a second source of +1.8V from IC5307. It is labelled DC1.8V but the schematic shows it goes to the RAM drive. Can you confirm that is correct or is it possible there is an error in the schematic and it is reversed that DC1.8V is going to the DMN-8652 and not D1.8V? PS There is a part LC1401 on the media processor schematic. Is it possible the voltage is lost in this part? The power used by the DMN-8652 is <2.7 watts. How hot is it getting? | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 May 11 20:34 | ||||||
| hehe looks like we think the same way ) I also wondered how it can happens. I measured once again voltage on Cn5302 (sheet 1) pins 1,2 & 3 - there is 2.02V and on Cn 1002 (sheet 5) pins 21-24 - there is 1.86v already. After I measured 1.86 on check point near DMN - I also start looking where 2.0 becomes 1.86v and found that 1.86 already comes to digiboard. So the reason is on main board somewhere under the drive. It will requre to dismount drive to get access there.
DMN becomes quiet hot - upto +65C I measure during work. I tryed to place it closer to the bumped shield (there is a piece of material between chip itslef and upper cover - like a wet rubber, but there is also a small space between it and metalic body - I tryed to pack it closer to make a good thermo contact, but there was limitters on boarder of can so I can`t make it more closer then it is. Its hard to find parts on digiboard because they placed very compact most of them have no space for names. I didn`t find LC1401 on board , but I measure voltage on checkpoint near DMN Vdcc pin and Cn1002 pin 21-24 and there is exectly same voltage 1.86V. IC5307 is absent in my unit because it only for models outside Europe. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 12 02:32 | ||||||
| That was good work. The LC1401 is between CN1002 and the DMN-8652 so it cannot be the cause of the drop.
That wet rubber sounds like a thermally conductive pad. It is normally used between a device and a heatsink in place of paste, thermal compound but it must make good contact with both. It sounds like a thicker piece is needed. The material normally does not shrink. Here are two links to companies that make this material. http://www.trocad.com/data_sheet/T-177-T228.php3 http://www.micchem.com/products/Silicone.htm This is the temperature information for this type of IC from LSI,  | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2005 May 17 03:30 | ||||||
| Some news of more tests from the land of DR-MV1S loading & repair. Once again, this is a different unit, but very relevant to this thread as the circuitry is the same.
I have been running the unit without the top metal cover, and with the DVD drive sitting to the side of the main unit's footprint (extended the power cable with a PC HDD extender cable). The main aim was to measure heatsink temperatures but I also had the "loading" thing occur too, see below. My unit is still modified as per my previous post in this thread. Heatsink temps first: STRG6653 heatsink, DR-MV1S idle with disc in drive 49.5 degrees C. Rises by 1 degree (temporarily) when a disc is inserted. Then when dubbing from VHS to DVD, 15 mins elapsed, 51.4 degrees C. Metal can of digital board, 42 degrees C at idle. No figure yet when dubbing (fingers say over 40 degrees but not hazardously hot). Now, the "loading" experience. Saw this twice in one evening: first time, unit was fully closed up and had been at idle for some hours. I decided to try dubbing again. After unit had been dubbing for 15 mins, while I wasn't there, unit shut down. Might or might not have showed "loading". Second time, using the same DVD-RW, unit was running without lid, so cooler I guess, and this time I heard clunks from the DVD drive, then saw "loading" on the display. Inspection of the DVD surface showed it stopped at same place on the disc as before. Changing the DVD disc to one I had previously written the entire disc & erased (ie. a good one), I completed a 3 hour dub successfully. So, this time I am sure the "loading" is due to a bad area on the media, but have yet to confirm by using it in the PC. Certainly it shouldn't be thermal when the unit is open. Those temperatures would be even higher with the top cover back on, so my next step is to fix more heatsinking to the STRG6653 and perhaps drill some holes in the top cover. Also trim the DVD drive support bracket so it doesn't trap hot air around the digital can. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 17 04:00 | ||||||
| It would be interesting to know the air temperature rise from ambient inside when the unit is closed up. With the unit open, the ambient temperature is room temperature but the internal air temperature closed up is the actual ambient to which most parts are exposed. The highest ambient temperature to which any IC is exposed will probably be the inside the can due to a heated enclosure within another heated enclosure. | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2005 May 17 05:22 | ||||||
| Yes it would. I suspect they're going to be quite worrying! OK, before I modify further I'll run the DR-MV1S with the top cover back on and my indoor/outdoor digital thermometer in. It will report ambient at the same time which is nice :) | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 May 17 05:52 | ||||||
| Ad far as I noticed "Loading" means reseting CPU and initializing routins start. It may happen by different reasons - such as faulty electronics that cause in some situations such problems - like in PC faulty RAM, power supply problems etc.
Or , as you said, programm problems - if its is realy problem caused by bad disc (media), then it more looks like programm error. I guess it can be fixed only by updating firmware. | ||||||
| oyster posted 2005 May 17 08:03 | ||||||
Hi - I've a PAL DR-M10, when I bought it I was aware of the "loading" problem, but I was persuaded by Lordsmurf's comments about this machine :lol: It's a great machine and I'm 100% satisfied by the quality of recording and dubbing; regarding the "loading" problem I've experienced it only once, but now I'm pretty sure that it was caused by poor DVD-RW media. Since then I've been using only Panasonic DVD-RAMs and I've done many hours of recordings without any trouble (power save=ON). | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2005 May 17 09:20 | ||||||
| Yes, I had read lordsmurf's comments early on about bad media causing "loading" too. Perhaps a bad media causes a "panic" in the firmware and it ultimately results in a restart....perhaps the action of a watchdog timer not being 'kicked' in time? And as Mig-45 says, other things are well known to cause restarts in microprocessor systems : RAM timing errors, chips operating outside their temperature specs, power problems (on internal voltage rails....) the list goes on.
I think it's clear though, that once bad media are eliminated, a stock unit of M10 or MV1S would still have a problem with the top cover on, due to the heat buildup. I am pleased with the results I just got, as previously I had not managed to complete a dub without the unit being "from cold", ie. turn it on at the wall and start recording immediately. That tallies with others comments about not leaving it on 24/7 if you want reliability. However, I'm keen to find a solution so I can rely on the unit any time of day or night, stone-cold or warm. There's more to do yet, but some progress is being made I think. If I can increase reliability by good heat management, and then if I have to use top spec media to avoid "loading", I'm happy with that. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 May 17 13:04 | ||||||
| Well, I agree - its best buy for this price! The only thing I really miss - I understand it after using DR-M10 for few months is HD! I have 3 DVD-RW disk I use them to transfer records to my computer. So I`m looking forward when DR-MH55 will appear in Europe! You can find out more on JVC`s Japanise site - victor.co.jp. You don`t need to know Japanise to read its specifications.
p.s. sorry for lil bit offtopic ) | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2005 May 17 15:54 | ||||||
| OK, the scores on the doors. Top cover on, and don't forget my fan is running at full speed (39R resistor shorted out, 12.1V is now applied to fan).
After 1 hour spent with unit at idle, shiny (digital) can is measured at 39 degrees C. After 30 minutes dubbing (VCR deck in play and DVD recording) 41 degrees C. Now for the STRG6653 heatsink. No temp at idle as the sensor was elsewhere, but after 30 minutes dubbing we have 49.5 degrees C. (Not that dissimilar from measurements with the top cover off.....) After 1.5 hours dubbing the unit shuts down (wasn't there so can't state if "loading" occurred or not) but - get this - upon return to the unit, the fan is off (usual state for a shut-down unit of course) and STRG6653 heatsink is over 70 degrees C (my thermometer stops at 70). The usual warm-spot on top of the unit is there, above the 6653 heatsink. You can now see why! (I have no measurement for the digital can now as the sensor was moved). Starting up the unit operates the fan, and the 6653 heatsink temp quickly comes down to 49 degrees C. (The unit was measured in a room with 23 degrees ambient.) What do you think trhouse? | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 17 17:53 | ||||||
| Sorry for the delay. I have been without an Internet connection for most of today. The fact that the can and heatsink did not change temperature much with the cover on is good news. It means the internal ambient temperature cannot be much different than the room ambient of 23 degrees C.
Here are the specifications for the STR-G6653. 
It should be ok even with the heatsink at 70 degrees plus. The 70 degrees occurs when the unit is not operating which helps. Is the metal can design for the M1V the same as the M10 with the dimple and the thermal pad inside to make the can into a heatsink? If that is working then the temperature of the DMN8652 should be not too much higher than the 40 degrees C measured for the can. If the thermal pad is too thin like mig-45 found in his M10, that could be a problem because the DMN8652 temperature can be much higher for a lack of a good thermal path to the can. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 May 17 18:35 | ||||||
| I still looking for local silicon thermal pad resellers. Only I found in nearest shop is exacly the same thin as native M10 ( Don`t wanna make hamburger and using two thermal pads. Maybe will try to use more thermal compaund to fill space between dimple and thermal pad (or thermal pad and DMN itself).
Also must notice that temperature condition inside M10 is quiet good! There are holes on its sides and small holes on botom part of case - so the only way to make it even better is to put a small fan under the digital board (there is some space there) and the holes are near! But it doesnt` change situation too much - max 5C less ! | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 17 19:32 | ||||||
| I would not use two thermal pads sandwiched together either. Too much chance of air pockets between layers unless enough pressure can be applied to eliminate them. Air is a very poor thermal conductor. If you can achieve a very good thermal path from IC to can, the can temperature will be close to the IC temperature.
I have been looking at the material list for the M10 some more. Nearly every resistor in the M10 is a 5% value. I wonder if JVC might have slipped up and used 5% values in those voltage determining circuits instead of the precision 0.5% parts in some units. The greater variation in voltage could be the cause of the more traditional "loading" problem which others have mentioned is solved by resistor changes. | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2005 May 18 02:24 | ||||||
| A little more on high internal temperatures: I checked out "unit off" mode with/without power-save on, since I noted the STRG6653 heatsink was at or over 70oC in off mode, after a 1.5 hour dubbing-shutdown. The top cover was off this time to see what the effect of improved ventilation was.
In "unit off" mode with power save on, and the top cover off, STRG6653 heatsink at 61oC. Same conditions with power save off, 63oC. The STRG6653 is happy at up to 125oC as you say trhouse. Looking at the pcb though, it is already browned so perhaps that is not so happy! It's a resin bonded paper type, not as good as fibreglass (the green ones). Early on, I upgraded some resistors from SM 1/16W to wire ended 1/4W, to eliminate problems with dissipation. I always thought the fan was running during "unit off" when power save was 'off'. Could someone else confirm this please? It did so once but then not again. I may have blown a transistor as trhouse said, I will check schematics but that will be tonight. It is good that there are extra holes in the M10 top cover to provide ventilation, I will be adding holes in the top cover (and a fan cutout or louvres if I can get a metalworker to help). Maybe also set the fan circuit so that it runs fast in operation and gently in "unit off" mode to lower the temp of the 6653 heatsink. The dimpled digital can in M10 sounds like what I have in the MV1S also, I will post a picture for comparison. I haven't yet opened the can to see if the thermal pad contacts both can & chip. Pressing on the dimple doesn't cause much flexing, if it flexed a lot I would say there was no contact. | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2005 May 18 13:45 | ||||||
| The picture I promised, plus one of my mods to improve airflow beneath the DVD drive.....
DVD drive support bracket, after modifications. http://www.geocities.com/simonwalls/Img_4840.jpg Digital board cover. http://www.geocities.com/simonwalls/Img_4838.jpg Hope you get your connection back soon trhouse. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 18 23:27 | ||||||
| I was in a store tonight and found a M1V plugged in on their shelf. It was flashing the "loading" message and two blue lights at either end. It was manufactured April, 2004 Beijing, China.
All the buttons did not lock out. On the left side is a button labelled, "dvd/vcr" and two green LED's, one to the right of the button and the other on the dvd ( right ) side which alternate and seem functional. I also noticed that the M1V has no vent holes on the side, top, or back ( except for the fan ). It does have vent holes on the bottom. My connection seems back to normal. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 19 18:23 | ||||||
| The analysis of the service manual has not really turned up anything that should cause failure at room temperature even though it is obvious some parts are operating very hot. Mig-45 finding that the thermal pad is not making sufficient contact to the DMN8652 and the metal can is certainly of concern but that is a mechanical fit issue.
I went back to all the threads regarding this issue to see if anyone ever mentioned what was replaced in a unit that had been returned to the factory. Someone with the handle CEF did. CEF noted that when his unit was returned from factory service ( in Hawaii ) the invoice was for $0 and indicated the following items were replaced, 
These are JVC's part number for a leaded, 1/2 watt, 1,000 ohm, 5% tolerance, carbon resistor. No such part is listed in the M10 manual so I am assuming that this is the replacement part for something else. Combing through the parts list yields the following, Regulator board: six leaded resistors of values 68, 8.2, 680, 820, 10K, and 100 ohms. Digital board: none Main board: six leaded resistors of values 10K ( qty 2 ), 10, 15K, 100, and 330 ohms. Operation board: one leaded resistor of value 330 ohm. Switch display board: four leaded resistors of values 10K, 3.9K, 27, and 1.8K ohms. The above are all 1/4 or 1/2 watt resistors. The closest two values to 1,000 ohm are R5327 ( 681 ohm ) and R5328 ( 820 ohm ) on the regulator board both 1/4 watt parts. These parts under normal operation dissipate 82 mW and 99 mW, respectively. Since these are 250 mW parts they should have no problem unless they are defective. These resistors are in series with each other. They are used to drop the -29 volts down to -12 volts with the aid of a zener diode. Here is a picture of them, 
R5333 to the left and above these parts is a 1/2 watt resistor for size comparison. If the parts are defective, JVC could replace them with good 1/4 watt parts so it may be hard to tell if they were changed but if they used 1/2 watt parts, JVC would probably have to mount them like R5333 for space reasons. | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2005 May 20 03:55 | ||||||
| Funny that the one in the store was flashing "loading" !
I have a local metalwork company making arrays of punched holes in my top cover. They are to be located on the top surface, above STRG6653 to improve "unit off" temperatures, and on the side beside STRG6653 for the same reason. This is a precautionary measure really. (Perhaps I will fix the temp probe to the TO220 package itself if feeling brave!) Also holes on the right hand side at the front to permit cold air to flow beside/above the digital can then exit thru the fan. With my cut-down DVD drive support bracket I should get airflow over the digital can. After that, I may open the digital can to check out the thermal pad contact. I will re-test temperatures with the top cover on when I get this back, it will be after the weekend. Thanks for poring over the service manual, its appreciated. Do you own an MV10 or are just interested (technical challenge?). If the latter, you have all our thanks. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 21 19:19 | ||||||
| Those extra holes at the top should aid convection cooling in standby. More holes means increased air flow with the fan but it is air flow past the hot components which matters most. The holes are going in the right places for that. Looks like the "loading" issue has not recurred in your unit.
I do not own one of these units. My interest was raised when mig-45 was discussing with lordsmurf about doing his own repair and that he had gone as far as to buy the service manual. When JVC declined to help him and being familiar with switching power supplies, I decided to see what could be done. If we could have discovered what the factory does to solve the "loading" problem in the process; I thought it would remove the mystery and alleviate doubts about what seems like a fine piece of equipment. It would take someone who has had the repair done by the factory like "CEF" to confirm where those two 1/2 watt resistors were added. There are only three 1/2 watt resistors in an M10 and their values are 10, 100, and 330 ohm so two new ones would be pretty apparent. Glad you joined the thread. Three heads are better than two. | ||||||
| tamgelikah posted 2005 May 23 17:55 | ||||||
| How about going back to the main topic ... The JVC DR-M10S and the "LOADING" problem. For those of you who have had this service done by the JVC Factory Service Center please share your experience ... how quick was the turn around? how does it work now? any other info. This would be much appreciated as I'm about to send mine in.
Also, it should be noted that the service rep I spoke to said they will only do this service on recorders under warranty. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 23 18:28 | ||||||
| tamgelikah,
Would you be willing to take a picture of the regulator board, particularly R5327 and R5328 before you send your unit in? I suspect that these are the parts JVC is replacing to solve the "loading" problem but there is no way to confirm it unless someone can note what parts were in their unit before JVC makes the changes. These parts are inexpensive and anyone who can solder can replace them in a few minutes. "CEF" who reported the change to two 1/2 watt resistors mentioned that JVC's invoice indicated $100/hr for out of warrany repair. | ||||||
| DGinnetty posted 2005 May 23 22:31 | ||||||
| I posted this in another thread, but it also applies here.
I got the loading error 100 days into the 90 day warranty. Called JVC service, and they said they would repair it free of charge. From the time I dropped it off at the post office, I had it back within 5 days. I have since been made over 600 DVDs with it in the last 9 months, with NO loading errors whatsoever. Runs like a top now, and the picture quality is great! Dan Ginnetty | ||||||
| oyster posted 2005 May 24 08:00 | ||||||
I bought my DR-M10 in April 2005 and I got the "loading" only once, but I'm pretty sure it was caused by a poor quality DVD-RW disc. I'd like to take a picture of the parts under suspiction (maybe they've been replaced with different parts from a given point of the production run), but is it possible to open the unit without compromising the warranty? | ||||||
| gshelley61 posted 2005 May 24 09:25 | ||||||
| From the JVC website:
"Q: My DVD recorder has experienced green or white noise in the picture display followed by the word “Loading” flashing continuously on the unit’s FDP. Unplugging the unit clears the "Loading" indication and restores normal operation. How can I prevent these symptoms from re-occurring? Models: DR-MV1S, DR-M10S, DR-MH30S, DRMX1S, SR-MV30U A: A limited number of units of certain models of DVD recorders (Models-DR-MV1S, DR-M10S, DR-MH30S, DRMX1S, SR-MV30U) have experienced the symptoms described. While manually resetting the unit, as set forth in the question, restores normal operation, the symptoms may reappear. JVC has identified the cause of these symptoms and will make the necessary adjustments to affected units to eliminate the likelihood that the symptoms reappear. Adjustments will be made free of charge at JVC Factory Service Centers. Click the Factory Service Center link at top left of this page to obtain your nearest location. Please call 1-800-252-5722 and select option 4-3 if you have any questions regarding this process." Link to find the nearest JVC Factory Service Center: http://www.jvc.com/ascsearch/mqlocator.exe?link=index It has been reported widely that out of warranty units are also being repaired free of charge, and for the vast majority of people who have the service done the problem does not re-occur. | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2005 May 24 12:09 | ||||||
| I have now got a top cover with lots of ventilation holes in useful places, but it has not been refitted as I started exploring the digital board further. I found out that the junction pcb to digital pcb connector could be detached with a little more force than I was willing to use the first time around, thus I did not see this before.
Below are links to some photos of the digital board 'underside' which normally faces downwards. I noticed that there are 2 1/4watt resistors (although they may be indeed 1/2 watt in these modern times) mounted on their leads. This looks like a factory mod -- perhaps the one you are seeking trhouse? I also now have been told that (if it can be believed) that this unit has been modified to 'fix' the loading problem. My experience is that it still does it when dubbing. The resistors are both 1.0k by my meter. Later I will try to work out where they are attached on the schematic, but for now I only have the pictures. If anyone knows how to reveal the software version (apparently modified units were reflashed) then we can all check and report. http://www.geocities.com/simonwalls/Img_4922.jpg http://www.geocities.com/simonwalls/Img_4924.jpg http://www.geocities.com/simonwalls/Img_4925.jpg | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 24 13:46 | ||||||
| oyster,
I would love to know if your M10 now has R5327 and R5328 on the regulator board changed to 1,000 ohms either with 1/4 or 1/2 watt parts. Yours being a late model should have the "loading" fix in it already, but I would not go so far as to have you void your warranty. The warranty is 90 days I believe. emlsnws, Yes, that is very close to the answer I was seeking. Since you have a schematic and have an engineering background, let me know if those two resistors provide the current limit for dropping the -29V down to supply a 12V zener diode. This is the source of -12V. If yes, I think we know the factory solution to the "loading" issue. I further suspect that many M10's and MV1's are misdiagnosed for the "loading " problem because these units are not verbose. In other words, they use the same message, "loading", as a response to more than one type of error. That may be the reason for the firmware update. I tried to view your photos, but this message came up, 
gshelley61 That is good info that JVC will stand behind the product even outside warranty. Much better than the $100/hr. service rate. I wonder if that policy is worldwide. | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2005 May 24 14:04 | ||||||
| trhouse,
Poor show on geocities! Would you try again tomorrow, they are worth seeing. I can email you them if that's ok (if you're on dialup they are >1Mb each). I will try and find out the answer for you. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 24 14:17 | ||||||
| emlsnws,
I will wait until tomorrow. My cable Internet connection has been intermittent. The cable company is sending someone out tomorrow morning to fix it. Regarding the two resistors. Even without a schematic, if you measure the voltages on these parts and find two of them are -29V and -12V, that will give us the answer as well. | ||||||
| oyster posted 2005 May 24 14:24 | ||||||
By the way, mine has s/n: 099B6403. Maybe DR-M10 owners could post their serial numbers here.. :)
Here in the EEC the warranty is 24 MONTHS!! | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2005 May 24 16:46 | ||||||
| I've looked at the schematic as I can't power the board while probing the two resistors I found earlier this evening. And I don't have any thin wire to attach and then lead out of the digital can. It seems that -29V does not even appear on the digital board (correct me if wrong) so I think that's a dead end.
I started thinking about R5327 and R5328, why would they be touched during a factory mod? Initially they look innocuous. I checked the value of DV12V (supply to dvd drive, 12V). It occurred to me what would happen if the transistor Q5313 was not driven hard enough? Answer: DV12V would drop. which would be "a bad thing" if the drive were in writing mode, and (say) seeking at the time, when current demand on 12V peaks during that time. So with my unit in dubbing mode, when any drain on 12V would be highest, I saw 12.4-12.2V on Q5313 emitter, and 12.1-12.0V when seeks occurred. Drops were definitely noticeable when the drive seeked (sought?). So I closed in and measure the C-E voltage, result 40-50mV when not seeking, and temporarily read 60mV when seeking. This was on a multimeter, which would not respond to fast transient peaks at all (perhaps why some of the numbers don't add up). The B-E voltage was -0.77V to -0.78V even during seeks. (DV5V is ok at 5.04V, and 5.07V when seeking. Yes 5.07V) My unit had not been on long and was running with top cover off. Given heat buildup over time, and a helping of chance (perhaps a bad area on the disk requiring repeated seek operations) perhaps the DV12V rail would drop to the point where the drive had an error, in writing or in data transfer? Then the firmware has a panic and crashes. Perhaps a hare-brained idea but there you are. If it were my design I would use a power transistor for Q5313 to minimise voltage drop and thus heat dissipation in it, but we see a small device in place there (2SA1585). The same as used for the fan. The net shows the transistor to have a 1A peak Icc. I always thought DVD writing drives had high current demands. trhouse, what do you think? I think maybe I will look at these parts (they're on the concealed side of the regulator board) and check for evidence of heat there. Then perhaps try a higher powered transistor for Q5313, or adjust the resistor values to drive it harder. Perhaps that's the factory mod we are seeking? Though with b-e at 0.77V that seems ok to me, perhaps it's Vcesat at high Icc is the issue. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 24 17:50 | ||||||
| The schematics for the M10 and MV1 must be slightly different. The M10 has three sources of +12V. There is an unregulated +12V labelled AL12V. This is the line that supplies the fan plus some other things but does not go to the dvd-ram drive. There is the unregulated +12V to the dvd-ram drive labelled DC12V. Finally, there is a regulated +12V labelled SW12V.
In the M10, the transistor supplying the unregulated +12V to the dvd-ram drive is Q5316 ( 2SA1585S ). This device acts only as a switch to turn-on the +12V. Even with 60mV for Vce and one ampere current, that is only 60 mW dissipation. I would not be concerned. R5327 and R5328 are on the power supply board in the M10 not the digital board. They along with zener D5302 provide the only -12V in the M10. It is labelled AL-12V. It is derived from the -29V. These resistors dissipate power as long as the M10 is plugged in because the -29V and AL-12V are not turned off in any mode. These parts may have different part numbers in the MV1. The M10 has no 1/4 watt resistors on its digital board. I suspected these parts because CEF posted that JVC fixed his "loading" problem by putting in two 1,000 ohm, 1/2 watt resistors. The nearest values in 1/4 or 1/2 watt resistors to 1,000 ohm were R5327 ( 681 ohm ) and R5328 ( 820 ohm )in the M10. These resistors should not cause a problem if they are not defective but several sources have indicated the problem is related to bad parts. | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2005 May 25 06:51 | ||||||
| trhouse, check your pm's for a link.
Yes I think last night I latched onto your M10 resistor part numbers, and ran with them, but these part id's are used for a different job in the MV1S. Still, I think the idea has possibilities and will try to prove it out to the end. The MV1S has a -29V which is generated by R5326 and a zener+rectifier in series on the junction pcb. It goes to the flourescent display and generates the -7V rail, see below. I noticed that to Mig-45 earlier in the thread, you named -29V as CN5301 pin 3. On the MV1S this pin is named "BT2" and goes to the tuner board to the 2 tuners (+30V is needed by each if the diagram is correct). The voltage is obtained from a (positive) diode reg from the main smps transformer. It is fed thru R5308 and R5309 (1k2 + 1k, which I need to check for signs of heat damage) and a switching transistor Q5303. Certainly this part differs from the M10 which uses -29V for the tuners, am I correct? There is no AL-12V in MV1S, but there is a SW-7V which is used by some audio op-amps on the audio/da-ad board and the main(audio i/o) board. Interestingly there is no zener on the SW-7V line, but there are 2 series resistors back to -29V. Presumably regulation occurs by virtue of the voltage drop (and is not precise at all). These are R5501 & R5502 which are 1/2W (560R each fitted on the board). There is browning around these 2 on the pcb, I have pictures if necessary. Interestingly the schematic shows these as 820R & 680R 1/2W which matches what you were thinking for the factory mod. I wonder what SW-7V would be at with 2 * 1K resistors? Lower. This needs measurements making on the board. The 12V sources are: DV12V which is switched via a transistor (q.v.) from its own winding on the smps transformer. There is also M12V which operates the fan and other things. And SW12V which is M12V after a transistor/zener regulator, switched by P.CTL[H]. | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2005 May 25 12:13 | ||||||
| Quick update: SW-7V is at -8.3V when DVD playing. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 25 14:23 | ||||||
| The cable company is working on the Internet connection at the moment. There are some differences between the MV1 and M10 as follows,
R5501 ( 820 ohm ) and R5502 ( 620 ohm ) are equivalent to the R5327 ( 680 ohm ), R5328 ( 820 ohm ) in the M10 except these are 1/4 watt parts in the M10 and 1/2 watt parts in the MV1. These resistors with 12V zener D5302 provide a regulated -12V labelled AL-12V in the M10. In the MV1 there is no zener ( at least on this schematic ) so they just lower the -29V to about -7V. The power dissipation dropping -29V to -7V is 146 mW and 176 mW for the R5502 and R5501, respectively. I suspect that in the M10, these resistors were changed to 1K, 1/2 watt units to solve the "loading" problem. It is a little different in the MV1 because the -7V is switched off in power save mode where the -12V is not in the M10. The MV1 has no power in these parts in power save mode where the M10 does. Here are a few other interesting differences. In the M10, AL5.3V is designed to be +5.75V but the MV1 has no AL5.3V, instead it has AL5.8V which is set to +5.9V. The M10 has capacitors in the system controller section only rated for 6.3VDC which has the +5.75 applied to them. Wonder if those capacitors are on the MV1 controller board? They would be very close to their limit if the +5.9V is applied the same way. The design values for the D1.8V in the M10 set the output of the PQ5EV3 regulator to +2.03V. In the MV1, the design values set D1.8V to +2.48V. This is the voltage that goes to the DMN8652 in the M10 media processor section. The MV1 must have a way to drop that +2.48V down to about +1.8V otherwise the DMN8652 will be damaged. In the M10, -29V goes to CN5101 pin 3, BT2 goes to pin 18. On the MV1, -29V goes to CN5304, pin 13 and BT2 goes to CN5301, pin 3. They are not on the same connector. P.S. If the R5501 and 5502 have been changed to 560 ohms and the voltage at SW-7V is -8.3V, the current flowing is about 18.5 mA. That means the values on the schematic ( 680, 820 ) would lower the SW-7V to -1.27V. P.P.S. In the M10, the maximum current from the AL-12V line that can be drawn is only 11 mA with the 680 and 820 ohm values. For some reason, the MV1 draws a lot more from the SW-7V. I was able to download the photos today. | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2005 May 25 17:03 | ||||||
| Many thanks trhouse, your dedication is exemplary. I will think over the points and make measurements, but I have other priorities for the next day or so. I'll be back!
Recording and dubbing with DVD-ram went ok today. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 May 26 05:43 | ||||||
| Trying to catch reason of comparition for this two models. M1V have VHS module, and I guess it also use some voltages so their values are a bit higher then in M10. So and topology. Most interesting to measure voltages near the end of line.
As for me is now only one question - where is the problem of such a strange behaviour (green lines) - power supply or digi board. And now its seems more like problem is on diginboard, because voltages outgoing from powersupply in common are used in different parts of scheme. Except maybe 1.8V. So if there were problem with power supply it affects then not only video but other parts too. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 26 15:23 | ||||||
| Mig-45,
Have you solved the problem with the thermal pad which is too thin? At this time, it seems to be the most likely source of problems by allowing the DMN8562 to get to hot. Manufacturers typically introduce a recorder first, then the vcr/recorder combo, and last, the hdd/recorder models. Studying the units that go to production later can sometimes reveal changes in the designers thinking. For example, is it possible that in the MV1, D1.8V is +2.48V ( or is it a mistake in the schematic ) because they felt it necessary to filter that voltage more which then drops it down to +1.8V. We never resolved how your +2.03V managed to drop to +1.86V. I think you already proved it cannot be the resistance of the pc board. There must be a part not accounted for in the schematic. In your unit can you tell if R5327 and R5328 are what the schematic says they are ( 680 ohm, 1/4 watt and 820 ohm, 1/4 watt )? Also, what is the manufacture date on the back? Oyster, A two year warranty is too good to void. I would not open the unit much as I would like to know about those two parts. | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2005 May 27 02:57 | ||||||
| Back again. I've been observing the voltages from the sw.reg board as the unit warms up. I have also made a change to the STRG6653 heatsinking, by removing the black vaned TO220 heatsink which I added to the 1.8V regulator way back (it didn't really need it), and screwing it on top of the STRG6653 heatsink. The unit still has the top cover off. The results:
Unit just turned on at the wall (cold). Exhibited usual "loading" for 1-2mins. SW-29V @ -29.4V SW-7V @-7.7V then slowly rises to -8.0V (over 30s) SW12V @ 10.5V (this one is interesting, I hadn't realised it was so low) Ambient temp 25oC Unit been at idle for 1 hour SW-29V @-29.5V SW-7V @ -8.24V SW12V @10.5V AL5.8V @ 5.87V (first time this was measured) STRG6653 heatsink temp 43oC (used to be 49oC with oem heatsink) After dubbing for 2 hours SW-29V @-29.8V SW-7V @ -8.31V SW12V @ 10.5V AL5.8V @ 5.88V STRG6653 heatsink temp 42oC (used to be 51oC with oem heatsink) Unit on standby overnight (power save on) STRG6653 heatsink temp 56oC (this used to be >70oC with oem heatsink) The SW-7V is interesting. If there is no zener on this rail, how is the voltage determined and why does it change? It may be internal protection diodes operating, their breakdown voltage varying with die temperature. After 30s to 1 hour the chip die warms up and the -7.7v increases to -8.24v. The temperature readings are much more reasonable now. Combined with the vent holes in the top cover, when I refit the cover it should be cooler. I still have to investigate the digital can, ie. does the thermal pad contact the shiny metal. Good to see you back Mig-45. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 May 27 04:57 | ||||||
| Yeah, I was travel far from home - now I`m back )
So was unable to check if new thermal pad works - now M10 working and I will wait for next few days for results! ) | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2005 May 27 07:28 | ||||||
| Great.
I have now opened the digital can, and like yours, the thermal pad is not contacting the LSI chip. I might modify the limit stops on the can so that it can be made to contact. Also regarding the SW-7V changing over the warm-up time, I see now that SW-29V changes also in approximately the same way. I will measure the drop across the resistor chain when I get the chance, as it could be that SW-29V is changing and the reason SW-7V changes is because the voltage drop across the resistors is constant. ie. it's not a problem. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 May 27 09:31 | ||||||
| Are we sure that designers idea was to use metalic shield as a heatsink ? Maybe they put thermal pad to avoid in any case contacting metalic top of chip ? | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2005 May 27 09:34 | ||||||
| Definitely. Large ASICS dissipate lots of power, and the metal slug visible on the LSI one tells me that this is a "warm" one!
Thermal pads are usually/always electrically non-conductive so I have no fears about making the thermal pad contact the ASIC. I will check this one with my meter to make sure! | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 May 27 09:48 | ||||||
| Of caurse pad are non conductive thats why I make guess that it can be used to avoid electric contact and not to provide thermal contact.
Anybody can check if metal plate on top of chip is grounded ? | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 27 14:09 | ||||||
| emlsnws,
The SW12V is designed to be about +10.3V. The regulator uses an 11 volt zener minus the pass transistor Vbe drop. There may be an error in the schematic for the -29V. It shows D5503 ( 27 volt zener ) in series with D5502. This would indicate -29V should be about -27.7V. Can you measure your D1.8V on the regulator board to see if the value calculated from the schematic is correct ( +2.48V ). That is quite a bit higher than the M10 value. mig-45, It would serve no purpose for the designer to dimple the cover to bring it close to the DMN8652 then use a pad to prevent it from touching. You may not have seen this, but some IC's have the thermal pad built-in to the package. This has been done for many years.  | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 May 27 14:53 | ||||||
| ok ok ...just thought "what if..." ) | ||||||
| Yngwie38 posted 2005 May 28 14:41 | ||||||
| I own a drm10 (made in germany) for almost a year now and never had problems. On day 1 i've turn the brightness of the display 1 step lower. A friend also has a drm10, after 3 months the problems began: the green lines and he had the loading problem. After turning the brightness of the display one step lower the problems are gone for more than 6 months now.
Greetings from the netherlands. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 May 29 03:41 | ||||||
| I used to have brightness lower for even 2 steps - Brightness 2 from the beginning and after 5 months problem with green lines appers! Also tryed to set brightness 1 (as your friend) but it doesn`t help.
But thanks anyway for information | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2005 May 29 17:08 | ||||||
| I also am using brightness low (only 2 steps on DR-MV1) as it causes the annoying blue lighting to be off. With brightness on high, the blue lighting is on -- poor sense of style!
trhouse, So there's nothing to worry about the SW12V being so low, good. I have rebuilt my unit with the digital can definitely contacting the LSI Logic ASIC. Surprisingly I found the temperatures roughly the same when this was done, perhaps it was just that the heat was conducted into the can instead of warming the air inside it. The only data I have is that the top of the can was measured at 53oC (in a 29oC ambient room ... it was hot here on Friday). This is 24 degrees above ambient, and I was seeing 19-22 degrees above ambient with the can not contacting the LSI. Furthermore I've now added a small heatsink on the dimple area. (A low profile green finned affair - the kind of heatsink you see on northbridge devices on motherboards). I now find the temperature to be 35oC on the can, with the top cover on, after hours of recording etc. Also I have the DVD drive support bracket open on 4 sides to permit ariflow and don't forget the extra holes in the top cover (I can provide a picture of this later), so there is airflow in the side at the front, then over the digital can & exhaust via the fan. Fan is still at top speed (12.2V.... I measured it). This is a good outcome, as I know the heat from the LSI is going into the metal can and then into the air. Don't forget, my D1.8V was reduced to 1.77V early on, it was my first post on page 5 of this thread. The original values for that reg. were 3.0k and 4.7k, giving 2.03V (according to formula, I don't think I ever measured it in practice) and I now have 2.2k and 4.7k (giving 1.77V measured). I think the 2.48V (if that's what 47k & 4.7K give) is erroneous and units couldn't have been built like that. The 3.0k I see on my pcb is more likely, giving 2.03V. I will check the voltage drop across the 27V zener, as it seems slightly out. What causes a zener to be inaccurate? Excessive current? Possible, as I see brown marks on the board around it.... I have not seen any more "loading" events, but I have a new problem with the vcr deck, it is reluctant to load tapes. Upon insertion, It doesn't lace the tape around the head, but ejects them immediately. Something new to work on! But recording from tuner has worked very well, and I have been playing tapes at the same time (=equivalent load on power supply?) using sometimes DVD-RAM and sometimes DVD-RW. Soon I think I will slow the fan down to an acceptable noise level and see if the reliability is still there. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 29 18:22 | ||||||
| That was my mistake. I looked at the MV1 schematic and thought I saw 4.7K and 4.7K when it actually says 47K and 4.7K. Yes, no unit could have been built with those values and as you mentioned the real values were 3K and 4.7K.
The DMN8652 will be much happier with those temperatures. The good thermal contact insures that the IC will not be too much warmer than the can temperature. Let's hope it solves mig-45's green lines too. You are correct about zener current increasing the zener voltage. A perfect zener would not do that but they all have internal resistance. | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2005 May 31 03:32 | ||||||
| The zener is dropping quite a lot more than the part's value of 27V. I also have made an error in the state of the -29V line, it is not turned off until the MV1 is unplugged from the wall. The SW-7V, as you'd expect from its name, is off in standby mode (power save=on). SW-7V is obtained by switching (via a transistor), some series resistors and the load consisting of op-amps & analogue switches, onto the -29V line.
The zener itself drops 27.4V when the unit is in standby (-29V line voltage -28.3V), rising to 28.2V immediately after switch-on (-29V line voltage -29.2V), rising to 28.8V after 2 minutes or so (-29V line voltage -29.6V). It looks like it is passing a lot of current and the dissipation is thus high, then temperature affects its zener voltage. The behaviour after switch-off is interesting too. Just as the fan keeps running for some 5-8 seconds after pressing the power button (at corresponding time to a "please wait" on the screen), the zener's voltage stays around 28.8V then after 5-8seconds it drops back to 27.4V. Perhaps this is related to the number of VFD segments alight. Perhaps a power zener would be less subject to voltage changes with current drawn (as this is what I think is happening as unit powers up). I have also slowed the fan down to its design speed & noise level, by reinstating the fan series resistor at 39R. The fan voltage is 6.4V, and temperatures with the (vented) top cover on, are as follows: After 1 hour at idle, digital can temp was 40oC. After recording on DVD for 1/2 hour, digital can temp was 41.5oC. Back where we started. I'm not best pleased with the amount of airflow from the fan running this slow, so I am going to try adding 39R across the existing 39R to increase fan voltage & speed, hopefully the noise level will still be acceptable. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 31 05:24 | ||||||
| emlsnws,
We have a bit of a mystery. The way a zener works in this type of circuit, the zener voltage will be maximum when there is no load. The load in this case is the SW-7V and the displays. The zener current ( no load ) is set by R5326. This current must be greater than the required current when both SW-7V and the display are both active. We know that when SW-7V is active, the current draw is about 18.5 mA. Let us make it a simple case that SW-7V is the only load. If the zener current is set to 20 mA. then this entire current will flow through the zener when SW-7V is not active. This will make the zener voltage maximum. When SW-7V is active, it removes 18.5 mA from the zener so only 1.5 mA is flowing through the zener. This low current should cause the zener voltage to be minimum. You are measuring the reverse. The zener voltage is minimum in standby which means little current is flowing in the zener. If that is so, where is all this current going since SW-7V is not active? With the unit on, the zener voltage is higher means that less current is being drawn from the zener than in standby. | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2005 May 31 07:46 | ||||||
| I hadn't got around to thinking about that yet - but yes, it seems odd. It's not different (ie. opposite) because here we're talking about negative voltages?? My detailed power supply theory is now a long time in the past.
I was thinking that the green lines Mig-45 and others have seen could be a result of the tuning voltage or high voltage supply to the tuner going away from its correct value, de-tuning the received frequency. On an analogue system we would see black & white noise in some lines of the tv picture, but in the digital domain, if it can't encode the noise (or detects it and substitutes an alternative) perhaps it settles on a green pixel. Some equipment uses a blue screen when no channel is tuned, I'm thinking along those lines. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 May 31 12:38 | ||||||
| Nah! Green lines has specific view! when I just started to analyzie sympthoms I noticed that they exists not only on output cascades, but also can be recroded to disc, and also appers when I`m whatching DVD. Also, they have a bit other structure then noise snow - left edge of the screen is there base when they achive their critical mass they bahves like graphic equalizer = pickes rising from right edge. And quantitiy of them depends on "CPU usage" on computing terms. Keep in mind that they don`t apper s soon and their quantity grows. So it more looks like over heating or capasitor leak.
Already five days of work and still no green lines . | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 May 31 13:41 | ||||||
| emlsnws,
It does not depend on polarity. The voltages are behaving as if there is a heavier load on the -29V in standby and less load when on. MiG-45, Have the green lines ever appeared when you were playing back a commercial dvd? | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 May 31 15:53 | ||||||
Yep, any kind of them ! Even when playing audio CD the splashes on screen and when I whatching signal from outter source passed through M10 Btw, speaking about tuner, do you also have LG tuner in your M1V ? | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2005 Jun 01 02:59 | ||||||
| The schematic shows LG/SANYO/ALPS are possible, and also Matsushita. I will have to check in my unit to see what it was built with.
So, have you re-assembled your digital can with the limit stops removed? I pressed mine out with a vice and a 1/4" square metal bar. LSI IC now is the first thing that touches the metal can, and the soldering is arranged to exert gentle pressure. trhouse, It is confusing indeed about the zener. It may be something, or it may be nothing and just a result of 'lax' design. It would be good to find a correlation with the problems. Perhaps running without VFD may eliminate something (there's a 4 pin cable that can be disconnected I believe). I have now increased the fan voltage to 9.5V by putting 39R in parallel with oem 39R. The fan speed is about as fast as possible to preserve acceptable noise level. Digital can temp is 37-38oC after an hour of operation, with vented top cover on. Last night I saw "loading" again some 6 minutes into a recording with vhs section playing a tape at the same time. The cause may have been media again, as it was one of the first lot of discs I have. An odd symptom is that the unit seems to recover and commence recording again, ie. if I look at the navigation menu for a disc, after a 'loading' crash, I see 2 (or more) separate recordings with a small gap between. Bless it, it's trying to do its best and pick up the pieces. So I changed to DVD-RAM and then it recorded 8 hours without a problem. I need to record the disc on a PC to check it out, then use it again in the MV1. Still thinking about that DV12V pass transistor...... | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Jun 01 03:38 | ||||||
| Yeah I remove limit stops on can those are on sides and slightly change two of them in the middle to make solidthermal contact between LSI and top cover.
But its not enough - I have to change a bit the way it screwing to the main board. There is a trap - when you connecting digiboard to mainboard it fited tight on connector, but side legs of can limits and dont let it fit completly when digiboard are sitting deeper in can (as it is now) , so you have to work with can`s legs to make this contact good. | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2005 Jun 01 04:58 | ||||||
| Oh yes, the middle ones. I had to cut those down with sidecutters to allow the board to sit deeper in the can.
I didn't notice a problem with the connector when re-mounting into the unit, but as they say, your mileage may vary... And no green lines yet? That's good news so far. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Jun 01 05:52 | ||||||
| Time from moment when unit is on till they appears may very and depends on how long unit was off. When I bring it back from service (where after a month was nothing has been done) it works fine 10 days! It was so long switched off that when I turn it on, clock been reseted! | ||||||
| Bix posted 2005 Jun 01 12:53 | ||||||
So I experienced the LOADING problem and sent mine in for repair. Got it back last week. Under "Service Performed" on the repair order is:
I'm still having the LOADING problem. A friend of mine who had the same problem and sent his in for repair said that his repair order shows replacement of carbon resistors. Is that the proper fix and what I need to beg them to do while bitching them out? Thanks. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Jun 01 14:18 | ||||||
| First of all, what model do you own ? | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Jun 01 14:27 | ||||||
| Bix,
You may be able to help a lot of people with this problem if you can do the following providing we are talking about the M10S. Open the unit and examine resistors R5327 and R5328. There is a photo of these parts from my post of May 19th at 18:23 in this thread. R5327 is 680 ohm and R5328 is 820 ohms. These are the parts in a unmodified unit. If your friend has these parts replaced with physically larger resistors of 1,000 ohm value ( both ) which stand on end, it will confirm our suspicions that these are the carbon resistors that JVC changes. Also, can you tell us the manufacturer dates of these two units. emlsnws, It would be easy to change the D12V back to a real +12V but I would be hesistant without knowing to what it is connected. The common zener values are 11V ( which is what is being used ), 12V, and 13V. There is a 0.7V drop due to the pass transistor so 11V becomes 10.3V, 12V becomes 11.3V and 13V becomes 12.3V. What kind of media did you use to get the non-fatal "loading" message? If it is -rw, you might be able to repeat it and confirm it is media. I assume there was no problem with vhs tape itself. mig-45, Have you measured the temperature of the can since you made the changes? The temperature of the DMN8652 is more serious than the "loading" problem. Power supply parts are well protected from overcurrent, over temperature conditions. They just shut down if such conditions occur. Not so with the media processor which can be damaged. | ||||||
| Bix posted 2005 Jun 01 15:05 | ||||||
| I have the M10S. Dunno if I wanna open it, though... | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Jun 01 15:16 | ||||||
| I can understand your reluctance. Can you tell us the manufacture date? It is on the label on the back with the serial number. | ||||||
| Bix posted 2005 Jun 01 16:42 | ||||||
May 2004. | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2005 Jun 02 03:37 | ||||||
| I meant the D12V that only supplies the DVD drive, where I was suspicious about the pass transistor drop.
I've tried again that same disc that gave "loading" when dubbing vhs, and recorded a whole 6 hours of tv onto the disc without a problem. This makes me think it was a 'soft' error, ie. non repeatable, on the disc. Power supply dips to the dvd drive could cause that. There is one more possibility, that, since the firmware knows when the vhs deck stops (so it can stop the dub - essential for real end-of-tape situation), it could also stop the dub when it shouldn't. The problem I have been seeing (refusing most of the time to lace up a tape) may also occur mid-cassette, tape stops and thus dub stops. This is counter to your assumption about the tape of course. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Jun 02 04:33 | ||||||
| emlsnws
Sorry, I was thinking of SW12V. D12V is not regulated. Q5313 is a switch so it offers no regulation. I assume your unit does not have jumper B5303. To minimize the 12.4 to 12.0V swing, the easiest thing to do is increase the value of C5303. It is only 100 ufd while the other filter capacitor is, C5203, is 1,200 ufd. I would check first if the dvd-ram drive has a regulator for the +12V input. It should be fairly identifiable but it will not show up on the MV1 schematic. That may be the reason D12V requires no regulation. My assumption about the tape was that the tape itself did not cause a stop. I have tapes which have been crinkled. When the vcr reaches the crinkle, it not only stops but starts to rewind. I can usually smooth it out enough to play though. I think you are referring to a situation in which the recorder decides to stop and start again. I am not sure why a "loading" message would occur if it did that since a real manual start/stop operation would not. Does the gap between the recorded segments appear to be the same length as the time the "loading" message was present? P.S. Manual received. This might help mig-45 too. Yours has a voltage chart which is not in the M10S manual. Bix Thank you for that info. Only April and May 2004 have been confirmed as manufacture dates for that issue. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Jun 02 05:14 | ||||||
| trhouse
DMN temperature now is 50C only , top cover - 45C | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Jun 02 13:43 | ||||||
| MiG-45,
That is a 15 degree C. drop from the 65 degrees C. you measured on the DMN8652 earlier if I remember correctly. That is a great improvement. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Jun 02 14:16 | ||||||
| well, yes, but need to see if it helps ) | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Jun 02 14:20 | ||||||
| In one respect it definitely does. The chip will start to fail at 70 degrees C. so you can be sure that will not happen. It would be a costly part to replace. | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2005 Jun 03 02:36 | ||||||
| Mig-45,
Perhaps this is the time to try reducing the supply voltage D1.8V to actually around 1.8V, to see if it further reduces the DMN chip temperature? Look back to almost my first post in this thread to see how I did it (remembering my Rxxx numbers are different to yours!). You are close to my temperatures, I saw around 40-41oC on the digital can above the chip (less at can edge) and I am unable to measure the chip temperature directly. My D1.8V is set to 1.77V at the regulator itself(on power supply board), so any voltage drops in connections, if any, add to this. Although I have not measured D1.8V at the DMN chip, I suspect its very close to 1.77V (ie. no real losses). trhouse, I have now changed the 'mode' used to record discs (this is a merry dance!) from DVD-Video which I wanted to use for compatibility reasons, to DVD-VR to see if it has an effect upon dubbing reliability. Perhaps the firmware can 'cope' with this format more easily..... I will do 5 or so dubs and report the results. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Jun 03 04:43 | ||||||
| emlsnws,
When you have the problem with tape not lacing, is the cover off the MV1? Vcr's have led's ( often infrared ) and sensors which are used in conjunction with the clear portions of tape to sense the beginning and end of the tape. If the cover is off, ambient light might be confusing these sensors. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Jun 03 05:24 | ||||||
| emlsnws,
What for ? I have 1.8V in normal range - 1.86 actualy. | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2005 Jun 03 09:17 | ||||||
| Mig-45,
Ah, no problem. I thought your voltage was higher, as there was some discussion about voltage drops a while ago. No need to do anything then, save perhaps a little VGA/chipset heatsink in the dimple of the digital can? Mine is attached with what looks like double sided sticky tape (supplied with heatsink) which seems not good enough, but the heatsink gets good & warm and the airflow takes the heat away from the fins. So, I'll wait to hear if you have the dreaded gr--- li--s. Don't want to say it out loud! trhouse, Yes the top cover was off the unit when I had the refusal to lace up tape. Since the problem happened, I have replaced the cover, and "praying" that it didn't continue, tried a different tape, which was ok. I never made the connection until now! Thanks for the thought :) | ||||||
| Springerspaniel posted 2005 Jun 03 11:31 | ||||||
| My DR-MV1 is, of course, stuck, alternately giving me a loading error, which then turns into a disc error, making me think that the DVD-Ram in the unit is the cause. Troble is, I can't get the DVD-Ram to eject. Any thoughts? I've left it unplugged for like 2 days, to no avail... I've held down the power button and the stop button together, like it says in the manual, for a couple minutes, I've held down, as a matter of fact, EVERY button for a couple minutes. I think that if I could just get the DVD ram out of the think, I might be ok. How do I get it out?? | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Jun 03 16:25 | ||||||
| emlsnws
After all green lines are back - that means its not overheat problem. What next ? System controller to check. Springerspaniel Yopu have to do manual eject (like on compuer CD drives, there is a small hole (a bit lower then tray). Open front panel with fingers and you will see this small hole. Use clip to push and eject tray! | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Jun 03 16:48 | ||||||
| MiG-45,
We will continue to examine other possibilites but one unpleasant one is that you may be seeing damage that has already occurred with the DMN8652. That will be difficult to determine without being able to swap a known good unit in to replace it. Springerspaniel,  | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Jun 03 18:35 | ||||||
| trhouse,
Maybe, but more possible that its not DMN`s damage. Because people wrote above that they also saw this sympthoms and changing display brightness solves problem. Its also seems odd to me that power save mode option is in dispaly section of menu. It look like its somehow depends on it. In the begining I did a test (when I did suppose that problem is in powersave mode, I turned unit on and didsn`t switchit at all waiting if it can affects the problem somehow, and as I found green lines appers anyway so it doesn`t matter if you turn unit off or not (when powersave is off). Now I m gonna make another test - to turn display off (there is an option) and will see if it can help. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Jun 03 19:28 | ||||||
| MiG-45,
This is not good. Do you realize that the media processor and video controller are really just two big chips with few periperal parts? If the voltages and temperature are all correct, it leaves fewer and fewer parts that can be bad. Ok, but it is not over yet. I would suggest that you clean all the interconnects with a spray cleaner. Insert and reinsert a few times and see if the problem persists. We still do not know why the D1.8V is correct at the DMN8652. Is it possible that a bad contact is reducing the voltage from +2.03V to +1.86V and that sometimes it jumps back up to +2.03V causing the problem? | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2005 Jun 06 07:25 | ||||||
| That's a shame Mig-45.
Are you running your unit fully closed-up with top cover on? I found that initially removing the top cover allowed a lot more air circulation. It's now back on, with lots of extra vent holes. Even though you have measured the temps and they are (from memory) about 46oC was that with top cover on or off? I now see ~35oC on can with top cover on. Does the M10 layout have the digital can positioned under the DVD drive? I find it amusing that the warmest part is stuck under a metal umbrella! I had the best temperature reduction on the MV1 when the DVD drive was temporarily placed away to the side, on a power extension cable. On the MV1 there is a 4-pin flexi cable from junction pcb to display pcb, I had considered disconnecting this and relying on the onscreen displays, but haven't tried it yet. I would be interested to hear if that helps you Mig-45. I have made a number of dubs onto DVD-RW in VR mode with mostly success. Say 4.5/5. Perhaps VR mode is less prone to problems than -Video. Springerspaniel, I hope the manual eject procedure worked for you. Let us know if not. I saw 'disc error' on DVD-R in my early days, but then went to DVD-RW as I couldn't afford the rate of disc wastage, and haven't seen it again. You did say DVD-ram so I guess your situation is yet again different. What would be your stance on opening your unit and taking some digital photos of the pcbs? Your guarantee (if still in effect) might be too valuable. | ||||||
| Springerspaniel posted 2005 Jun 06 08:13 | ||||||
| Ah.. I had to take the cover off completely, then remove the front panel, just to be able to get to the manual eject hole. Then, I got the disc out with no problem at all.
Of course, I still get the loading error, which I can "clear", but I get a "disc error" that says to check disc... when there isn't even a blasted disc in the stupid thing. There ought to be some way to manually reset the friggin machine, and clear the loading error. Is there a battery in there that retains information, similar to the old CMOS in a computer? Is there a hidden "reset button" somewhere inside? This think SHOULDN'T be this difficult, should it? I know that I can send it to JVC to be fixed, but it's kinda a challange to figure out if I can get it working on my own - I just need a little direction. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Jun 06 14:08 | ||||||
| Springerspaniel,
Can you start by telling us the manufacture date for your M10? It is on the back panel with the serial number. | ||||||
| Springerspaniel posted 2005 Jun 07 08:31 | ||||||
May 2004 ... Oh.. and it's not an M10, its an MV1S... same thing but with the vcr built in as well, correct??? | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Jun 07 10:48 | ||||||
| ТNot exactly, as I found firmware for DVD drive written by different companies ( at least in models I saw MV1S & M10) | ||||||
| Springerspaniel posted 2005 Jun 07 11:29 | ||||||
| So.. is it even remotely possible for the user to clear the loading error, or must the unit be sent back to JVC for them to replace what amounts to either the motherboard or a couple of little resistors? If it is just resistors, I can do that, but I don't see how that'll reset the machine. Or am I missing something? Perhaps hurling the unit into the Mississippi river might help to change it's mind about always flashing Loading... but I suppose that might void the warranty, huh. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Jun 07 14:28 | ||||||
| Try to switch off the unit from wall outlet for one night. It may help. Btw do you have NTSC version ? | ||||||
| Springerspaniel posted 2005 Jun 07 14:32 | ||||||
Yup... it is the NTSC version... I've unplugged it from the wall for an entire weekend from Friday Morning until Monday morning... does no good, but I'll unplug it when I get home and let it sit until tommorrow night. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Jun 07 16:04 | ||||||
| Springerspaniel,
Three units with the fatal loading problem have been identified. One MV1 manufactured April, 2004, one MV1 and one M10 manufactured in May, 2004. That is good news for JVC owners. Seems like the fatal problem units were only made in April and May, 2004. Now to solutions. Do you have a voltmeter or ohmmeter? In your MV1, locate R5501 and R5502. They will be big, leaded resistors on the power supply board. The manual says R5502 is 820 ohm, 1/2 W and R5502 is 680 ohm, 1/2W. emlsnws has a newer MV1, where JVC has changed both R5501 and R5502 to 560 ohm, 1/2 W parts. If you do not have the newer parts do not change them until the voltage at a point labelled SW-7V can be determined. These resistors help determine this voltage. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Jun 07 19:23 | ||||||
| prolly this is "resistors" problem. As far as I know only NTSC versions manufactured before August 2004 suffering from this problem. It need to upgrade firmaware. I suggest you, since you live in US, to write email to JVC factory & service in the USA. They not only fixing this porblem, but also can help you hw to make it faster and easer! Here it is - SSample@JVC_dot_com. Or can call them (713) 935-9331 Ext. 101. | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2005 Jun 08 02:53 | ||||||
| Springerspaniel,
Welcome to the club! You and I have the same unit only mine is PAL. Actually trhouse is a little incorrect, but no worries, on the MV1 (vcr combo) variant the R5501 and R5502 are on the 'junction' board which you will find under the DVD drive itself. But you may be able to see the 2 resistors concerned, without removing it. They are located as follows: Note the DVD drive is supported on a metal frame secured by 4 screws into the chassis. (The frame has closed ends which restrict visibility under the drive, but hopefully not to the area we want). Looking from the front of the MV1, identify the rear right-hand leg of the DVD drive's support frame. The resistors are on the printed circuit board around the 'foot' of that support leg, on the inside (concealed) area. You're looking for two wire ended tubular resistors side-by-side. I can post a picture later to help location of these. If you post the coloured bands found on them, or a picture of, we can work out the values of them. I don't think I've posted my manufacture date and/or serial number, but I can do later on today. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Jun 08 04:13 | ||||||
| Springerspaniel,
emlsnws is correct. Those parts are on the junction board not the switching regulator board. Both the switching regulator and junction boards are on the same schematic. MiG-45, Have you discovered how your +2.03V is dropping to +1.86V? emlsnws, It would be good to know manufacture dates to get a better idea of when JVC made changes, but I had assumed yours and MiG-45's unit to be newer since neither of you seem to have the bug Springerspaniel has. Can anyone measure the voltage across R5314 in the M10 or R5326 in the MV1? | ||||||
| Springerspaniel posted 2005 Jun 08 08:52 | ||||||
| Ah.. I suppose that the best thing for me to do is either to bite the bullet and send it to JVC, have them fix it, and then sell it on EBAY for whatever I can get, as I am now scared to even attempt ot use the DVD side of it. I should have stuck with my gut feeling and gotten a Panasonic. | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2005 Jun 08 09:06 | ||||||
| Sorry to hear that. It might well be possible to revive your unit if we can just check a few things. However, it will require some measurements making etc though.
(trhouse, do you want to buy springerspaniel's unit?) I'm going to make the measurement on R5326 later today, and post a link to a picture of the R5501+2 pair. | ||||||
| Springerspaniel posted 2005 Jun 08 09:26 | ||||||
I have no problem trying to revive the unit... I just don't see how it is possible without sending it back to the factory, because, while I see how the resistors can cause the loading error, after leaving it off for days, it still reappears. It thinks it has a disc in it. Plus, I had some timers that were set for daily record (I'd turn the timers off overnight, and turn them on in the morning) and, even after being unplugged for 3 days, the timers were still set. That makes me think that the memory isn't being cleared, or they are being written to some kind of chip on the unit itself, which is probably where the info that causes the unit to stick in loading is also residing. A simple reset of that, would, I think, do the trick. Perhaps I'm being too optimistic. Hmm.. I wonder if it'd be possible to get them to upgrade it to a DR-MX1?? | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2005 Jun 08 09:59 | ||||||
| Hmm I see. It may be a fatal fault, and then the factory is the only place for it. Especially in the US as you have a good returns policy there. My contact with JVC's helpline in the UK was for them to, for every problem I spoke of, refer me to my dealer.
It took me a while to learn that when it's been unplugged for some time, I should allow 2 minutes or so for 'loading' to finish (this is normal operation). Then after loading, the unit goes to 'off' so I press Power to start it up. I had no desire to be without the unit, and 've managed to get the internal temperature down by modifications, and experimented with media, and now I don't see 'loading' much at all (hope I have not spoken too soon). | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2005 Jun 08 11:43 | ||||||
| OK here is what information I have.
Serial number 109B0026. No manufacture date visible, although the DVD drive inside was made in March 2004. I have put up two pictures, one showing where R5501 + R5502 are to be found: http://www.geocities.com/simonwalls/r5501-ident.jpg I want to add an arrow pointing to the two resistors in the lower left of the picture. The green-blue-brown bands are just about visible. .......and one of my extra ventilation holes in the case. Ambient when photo taken was about 28 degrees C. The thermometer in the picture is reading 36 degrees C, sensor positioned on top edge of digital can. http://www.geocities.com/simonwalls/case-holes.jpg Resistor R5326 has 2.38V across it in idle mode, and only 0.58V across it with the unit off (power save = on). | ||||||
| Springerspaniel posted 2005 Jun 08 11:54 | ||||||
| Well, after a series of E mail with Stacy somebody at JVC (thanks MiG-45) I am going to send my unit to JVC in Houston, TX, to be fixed and returned to me within a week, and with a cable box controller included!!!
My faith in JVC is perhaps a bit restored. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Jun 08 13:51 | ||||||
| Springerspaniel,
That is the best solution since the "loading" repair is being done for free outside of warranty in the US. If you want to help out those who cannot get this service, photograph the same resistors as emlsnws has. When you get the unit back, you will be able to confirm that is what JVC changing. It does not take long to replace two resistors and update firmware. [edit] emlsnws, The date on the dvd drive is a bit of a puzzle. That would make your unit older but it does not have the fatal problem. Either PAL units did not have the bad resistors or you bought one month before the bad parts went in. I saw the "loading" problem in a April, 2004 unit manufactured in Beijing. So far only April and May, 2004 units seem to have this problem. | ||||||
| Springerspaniel posted 2005 Jun 08 14:02 | ||||||
I will do just that!!! Anything to help the cause, so to speak. One question.... I wonder how they update the firmware? Can't be via the DVD drive... because that doesn't work... If we could find that out, and then get a copy of said firmware... well.. that'd be a huge help, would it not? Or would that be like asking bill gates for all of the code to windows and him just handing it over??? | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Jun 08 14:08 | ||||||
| Springerspaniel,
If you are really lucky, JVC might tell you what they will do and it would be nice to have that info and firmware for those in places where the repair may not be free. Not to discourage you, but one of the reasons for this thread is because JVC would not give much advice to MiG-45 about repairs and the repair they did for him did not solve the problem. P.S. The "Buy it Now" price on eBay for MV1's is about $105. | ||||||
| Springerspaniel posted 2005 Jun 08 14:16 | ||||||
| I wonder if there is a way to umm... well... fry the digi board or whatever you call it so that they HAVE to replace the entire thing... without, of course, them knowing what was done.
They did tell me to pack it well, because if it is damaged in shipping (i.e. the case getting cracked, etc) they will still fix it under warranty, because it was being shipped for the loading error, but it'll take a whole lot longer. Just a thought. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Jun 08 14:42 | ||||||
| I would not encourage anyone to do that but you raise an interesting point. Both emlsnws and MiG-45 have had heat problems with the media processor chip ( LSI DMN8652 ) which has a thermal pad too small to make good contact with the cover assembly required to take away the heat. This issue may be more serious since it can damage the chip which is expensive. You might want to ask JVC if they would check that on your unit. If they are willing it might save you a lot of pain later. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Jun 08 14:55 | ||||||
| trhouse,
Small correction - it wasn`t JVC who faild to repair my unit - only their authorized service! There is no official JVC service here yet. Thats why I talked to US factory. Of caurse they said that can also fix my unit but not for free (since European warranty don`t cover shipping and fixing unit in USA). So I start to fix it by myself. Springerspaniel, Its just a patch of initial designers bug. It works fine after that - no need to worry. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Jun 08 15:04 | ||||||
| MiG-45,
Is there no direct JVC service center in Europe? I thought some of these units are manufactured in Germany. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Jun 08 15:30 | ||||||
| trhouse,
Yes, indeed there are JVC service centers in Europe, but they only repairing units covered by local warranty. My unit was made in Germany as well, but when I talk to JVC Gmbh (they presents JVC in Eastern Europe) they told me that warrnty don`t cover shipping to service centers outside the country where unit is bought. So I have no other way just only to try (as they wrote) other authorized centers. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Jun 08 16:30 | ||||||
| MiG-45,
If I do not misunderstand you, the warranty does not cover shipping but it covers the M10? I would not think shipping is so expensive. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Jun 08 16:40 | ||||||
| emlsnws,
Did you mean R5326 above? | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Jun 08 18:34 | ||||||
In fact, including post injurance sending it to the factory and back will costs about 120 USD. Having in mind the new one now costs only 260 US dollars. ) And now it is useless talking about since I made changes inside. ) | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2005 Jun 09 02:45 | ||||||
| Yes, I did mean R5326. The 47R resistor is mounted about 1/2" up on its leads (for heat dissipation). Original post will be edited.
I measured the right one. The silk screen is a bit hard to read due to lots of tall parts in that area, and you don't want to put your face too close to the switching transformer.... The service manual says they update firmware via the DVD drive, which in springerspaniel's case, they might have to replace before doing so. Internal pictures would def. be appreciated before return. It looks like to see R5501 and R5502 you have to lift the DVD drive up slightly to see the resistors. (You'll need a long screwdriver to remove them, and some blu-tak to hold screws on the driver's end to replace them). Mine are visible in the pic because I removed the rear metal curtain of the DVD drive support.... with an angle grinder :shock: :shock: The date of my unit is also puzzling me, I'll have another look over it. I thought there was a label stating country of manufacture too. | ||||||
| Springerspaniel posted 2005 Jun 09 10:45 | ||||||
| Ok.. I took the cover off, took a bunch of digital pics, took the dvd drive out, took more pics, and left my camera at home. I'll put them up tommorrow.
In the meantime, I am writing my letter to include with my unit when I send it to Houston. I know that I have to tell them that I get the pretty, blue flashing loading message constantly. What else could I put in there to make sure that they check any and everything that may be wrong with it, or is it pretty much up to them what they do??? | ||||||
| alanb49 posted 2005 Jun 10 00:34 | ||||||
| I have a JVC DR-M10S that is at times having a "loading" error. I want to send it in to get fixed. Which one of the service centers (USA) is turning the product around the fastest? E-mail contact and or telephone number and name of contact would be appreciated.
Thanks | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2005 Jun 10 03:08 | ||||||
| Thanks springerspaniel,
It would be worth mentioning that it thinks theres a disc in the drive when there is none, that way you may get a replacement drive. Look forward to seeing the pics, but it may be Monday before I can read the forum again. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Jun 10 03:56 | ||||||
| alanb49,
Could you tell us what the manufacture date is of your unit? It will help us narrow down which months these units that develop this problem were made. The manufacture date is on the serial number sticker on the back. emlsnws, The measurement of that voltage helped determine the following. 51 mA is drawn by SW-7V, the -29V zener, and the display in idle mode. In power save mode, the display is off and SW-7V is switched off which leaves the 12 mA in R5326 for the zener. Your previous measurements set the SW-7V current at 18 mA so the display must draw 21 mA ( 51 mA - zener current of 12 mA - SW-7V current of 18 mA ). springerspaniel, Thanks for your efforts with the photos. It is much appreciated. I am not sure how you would phrase it, but it would be good for JVC to check on the heatsinking of the media processor chip ( DMN8652 ). MiG-45, Any luck determining why +2.03 became +1.86V? Here are some interesting items from the manuals for these products. The temperature spec for both the MV1 and M100 have been lowered relative to the M10. For the M10, 
For the MV1, 
For the new M100, 
and the "loading" message has been replaced with,  | ||||||
| Springerspaniel posted 2005 Jun 10 08:06 | ||||||
Houston has about a 5 day turnaround, and Stacy Sample was very helpful. Ssample@jvc.com Stacy Sample Service Coordinator JVC Service & Engineering 10700 Hammerly, suite 110 Houston, Texas 77043 (713) 935-9331 Ext. 101 | ||||||
| alanb49 posted 2005 Jun 10 08:06 | ||||||
| trhouse:
The manufacture date is September 2004. How long is JVC taking to fix and return the DVD recorders? | ||||||
| alanb49 posted 2005 Jun 10 10:25 | ||||||
| Thanks Springerspaniel. I was posing a question as you were answering.
Alan | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Jun 10 10:32 | ||||||
As far as I try to measure a found resistance betwenn two points - connector from powersupply board and connector to digital board. I still trying to find out what is the easiest way to look under th main board - but aparantly no other way just to complete disassemble the unit ( springerspaniel, I suggest you to check out your DVD drive yourself if you can. It have standart ATAPI interface so you can simply plug it to your computer as a usual DVD drive and see if it works. | ||||||
| Springerspaniel posted 2005 Jun 10 10:32 | ||||||
No problem.. let me know if they're as helpful with you as they were with me!!! | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2005 Jun 14 04:18 | ||||||
| Hi again,
Springerspaniel, did you post a link to your pictures that I have missed? I have been busy moving house so have had little time to post. Will post an update when there is more news (new environment for MV1 may change performance!) | ||||||
| Bix posted 2005 Jun 17 18:25 | ||||||
| Got my unit back from service for the 2nd time and...LOADING again. Worked fine for 2 recordings then bleh.
Repair order has under Service Performed: ELECTRICAL PART Reset Rewriting Program Under Parts: Part Number: LPA10236-01E Description: DIGI.PWB ASSY So what is the deal? Did they replace the resistors this time (I specifically asked them to in an enclosed letter)? If not, WHY? What should I do now (since they're closed until Monday)? I sent an email to service that said this: "I''m still, after sending my unit in for service twice, having the warning mode/loading error when I try to record. Were my resistors replaced as requested (the repair order indicates "ELECTRICAL PART" under "Service Performed")? If not, why? If possible, could I have some sort of working unit, either this model or a newer one? Thanks!" HEEEELLLLPPP! | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Jun 17 19:13 | ||||||
| That is disappointing. It sounds like they swapped out your media processor board and updated the firmware. The LPA10236-0E is the p/n for the entire digital board. The manual from MiG-45 shows it as -0C so this is a newer version. The resistors we have been discussing are in the power supply. Let us know if you want our help or if you want to try JVC some more. | ||||||
| Bix posted 2005 Jun 17 19:22 | ||||||
Thanks for the info. I'm gonna try JVC some more, but since I can't talk to them until Monday, I'd love any advice you have! | ||||||
| 8t88 posted 2005 Jun 17 19:37 | ||||||
| I returned my DR-M1 unit for the 3 time this year, and now they are replacing the Power source, drive and motherboard! It looks like i'
m getting a whole new machine.......... | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Jun 17 19:59 | ||||||
| Bix,
I reread your earlier posts. I see your prefer not to open the unit so little can be done right now. You had a friend who sent his in and it had carbon composition resistors replaced. Your unit, May 2004, is about the right vintage to have that problem. Did your friend send it in to the same service center or a different one? 8t88, What problem were you experiencing that lead to so many part replacements? If it was the loading issue, can you share with us the manufacture date? It is on the back with the s/n. We are trying to compile a list of the months were the problem was prevalent. | ||||||
| Bix posted 2005 Jun 17 20:25 | ||||||
Depending on what the fix is, I may be willing to open it. What would be needed? | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Jun 18 05:54 | ||||||
| Well, well..... replacing whole board is an easer solution! But we lose a chance to find what part is exactly fault! ( | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Jun 18 15:14 | ||||||
| Bix,
Check out my post of May 19, 2005 at 18:53 on this thread. It explains my suspicions about which resistors are the cause of this problem. MiG-45, I have reread your posts about this issue including that the problem occurs playing dvd's including commercial ones, just passing a signal through the M10, and that the green lines can be recorded. I had another look at the DMN8652 as well. I noticed that it is capable of component output, composite output, and S video output. That made me wonder if you find the green lines on all those outputs? I also have a suggestion about the +1.86V you are measuring at the DMN8652. Try this. Connect your ohmmeter from the point where you measured the +2.03V to the point where you measured +1.86V ( with all power off and unplugged for safety ). What resistance do you find? Then wiggle all the connectors you can find between these points and see if it changes. | ||||||
| Bix posted 2005 Jun 18 16:28 | ||||||
| Well...that's something I don't think I can do. :)
I'll take note of the part number, though. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Jun 18 21:56 | ||||||
| trhouse,
regarding ways of measuring - I don`t think its a good idea because it will let us guess. Think its better for me finally disassemble and look at the botom of main board. As for green lines - I also though about this - and check them on other outputs also - they exist even when I switching progressive scan. So they don`t depend on output mode. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Jun 24 03:55 | ||||||
| MiG-45,
I went back to your earlier posting of the images from the M10 with the lines. I was noticing that in one image, there appears to be a repeated pattern in the lines at the top of the image. I was examining this when I realized that this image had a huge number of macroblocks. It also appears that these lines some which are green, others are magenta, and a few are almost black appear to start and end on a macroblock. Do you notice in the two images that have little motion of the mountain and sky, the one with few lines has few macroblocks and the one with many lines has many macroblocks? Compare that image to the one with ball players which appears to be an action scene. The action scene has very few lines and very few macroblocks. If the lines and macroblocks are related they may produced by the same mechanism. The images are reproduced here, 
 | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Jun 24 16:18 | ||||||
| Well, I noticed but as I wrote before green lines appers not instantly in one day - they slowly start appering from 4th day of working , then day by day their number grows and if at first the splashing sometimes you may even noticed them, then after a few days since they begin to show, their number reachs huge aamout - this fact I recordedto DVD and post frames here. Its about the final stage - if continue using then picture collapsing to macroblocks, freezing frames and then goes reset of unit, after reset it works few mins and then again reset etc. Also if when you just whatching TV though DVD recorders tuner, they might not affects picture too much, but when you start working with DVD drive, calling setup functions and even open/close tray = it all cause them heavely covering screen! That why I though that they somehow depends on current requested by unit. And one more - few days ago - it happens only once - I goes to setup screen and turn on powersave mode when I quiting setup - picture was covered by diferent collerefull lines after few seconds everything becomes fine. I call back setup and turn powersave mde off - same thing happens. Then I tryed to change other parameters of setup, but they don`t bring such effect - everything works fine until I touch powersave on/off. I turn unit off (powersave mode ON) and switch it back - everything is ok now. But now Im thinking that maybe reason of this digital noise (let call green lines with it real name) maybe cause by system controller - I`m checking schematic to find out how power mode switching - if there any triggers or transistor keys. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Jun 24 16:56 | ||||||
| MiG-45,
I will think more about your new comments. I was looking at the schematic and the TV tuner output looks like it is converted from composite to S-video, then digitized by the JSP chip before it is sent to the DMN8652. If the lines are related to the macroblocks then it must be the DMN8652 creating them since macroblocks appear as part of the encoding process. It is possible that the process of digitizing the S-video signal could be bad, but if this were so, the lines would be random. Since they start and stop on a macroblock means the JSP digitizing is probably not the problem. This could still be a voltage or heat problem but it seems like by examining your captures and comments we can narrow it down to only a few components. P.S. I hope it is not the DMN8652 as well. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Jun 25 05:22 | ||||||
| More looks like something affects DMN`s normal work. If it is safe to say that overheating is not a problem anymore (since temp of DMN is now about 50C) , then suspections now are back on powersupply. | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2005 Jul 05 10:32 | ||||||
| My DRM-V1S has now been moved to another house, and the latest news is as follows:
- previously thought good media, ie. I had recorded 4 hours of VHS dub on, erased & subsequently failed during recording TV. "Loading" was seen. - DVD-RAM recordings continue to occur flawlessly. I have yet to see a "Loading" when DVD-RAM is in use. I am going to buy some more media, still -RW but a different brand to the -RW I had been using (will edit this post later to include media ID code when I find it out). The media concerned did not give good results whether used in "Video" mode, my first choice, or VR mode which I later tried. Using -R has turned out to be an expensive education, too. Perhaps if I try enough media I may find a reliable one, or give up and get a DVD-RAM drive for the PC! I read here I think that the -RAM disc management is different/better which may explain the lack of "Loading" seen to date when using it. | ||||||
| 8t88 posted 2005 Jul 05 10:52 | ||||||
I had the 'loading' message for over a year now on my machine, everytime when i took it back the message stays away fot some weeks/months..... But then it came back again. So after almost a year of troubles a friend of mine said give that machine to me i will take it to JVC as he know the 'Head Service Department'. That man phoned me back with the message that they will fix the machine 'no matter what.....' It was already out of warranty some months. They replaced my drive, powersource and part of the print..... It's working perfect now!!!! Machine is a PAL DR-M1 bought round december 2004 i'm sorry no serial as i write this at work.............. :D | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Jul 05 11:35 | ||||||
| 8t88
DR-M1 or DR-M10 ? | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Jul 05 13:22 | ||||||
| 8t88,
The manufacturer date on most units is on the serial number label but it may not be true for PAL units. Thanks for sharing your experience. It might have cost JVC less to give you a new unit! MiG-45, 8t88 has the M1. enlsnws, I have only a few -rw's but the TDK's have not failed me. The media code from DVDInfoPro is TDK502sakuM3. | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2005 Jul 10 16:56 | ||||||
| I got some new RiDisc purple top 2X DVD-RW's by mail order, media code (Strangely enough) is TDK502sakuM3 and so far they have been flawless. Sample size so far is 3 discs, I have recorded the full discs' worth and then erase, re-record no problem as yet. I hope it continues! I have 10 discs to use.
Ambient temperatures have been warm again in the UK recently and the temperature sensor still attached to the digital can reads ~35oC. Room temp is about 25oC today. The previous discs (which as I found in this thread, a little prone to unreliability) are OPTODISCW002. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Jul 10 19:24 | ||||||
| Here in Russia JVC start DR-M100 model to sale! Its absolutly similar to DR-M10 just have greater firmware and a bit change front panel. I suppose its also have fixed old issues. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Jul 10 19:43 | ||||||
| emlsnws,
That is a coincidence. I have had good luck with that media. MiG-45, There has been a thread running about the M100 here, http://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=270003 Sounds like most the issues of the past are gone and it can playback DVD+R DL (with DVD-ROM booktype). | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Jul 11 15:36 | ||||||
| trhouse
Dr-M10 also can playback DVD+R Dual layer ) | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Jul 12 02:45 | ||||||
| MiG-45,
It must be a well kept secret. Here is an excerpt from the operating manual. They do not even admit it can play a +R disk let alone DL. 
Have you tried it yourself? | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Jul 12 06:11 | ||||||
| Sure! ) Also about all official DVD releases comes on Dual layer DVD ( 9,4 Gb). So all DVD players and recorders can play this format. Check any commercial DVD (with movies) on your computer - measure it size - about 9 Gb. Its not a secret - its the only way to achive best video quality | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Jul 12 11:14 | ||||||
| You are right except perhaps about the size,
"Every DVD reader available is capable of the dual layer read operation. Applying the exact same principle to the write mode has only been a matter of perfecting consumer media and simple modifications on the pickup/laser. In fact, those who watch our Optical Storage news closely already know that Pioneer previously demonstrated their DVR-106 capable of burning dual layer discs during CES 2004 (January). The drive only burned at 2X, but considering the DVD-R DL disc was burned using only a modified firmware, the future of existing DVDRW devices looks slightly promising. Most likely vendors will choose not to release firmware that would enable DL burns, but it is nice to know there is a slim chance they might. The first thing everyone should know is that DVDR-9 (as well as DVD-9) are not capable of 9GB of storage. Reading some of the questions in our forums, it became evident that this is one of the largest preconceptions about the technology. Both DVDR-9 and DVD-9 are only capable of 8.5GB of storage. Any more would render them incompatible with the DVD standard. Tri Layer drives would not be compatible with the standard either, so do not anticipate seeing DVDR-14 in the future either. For more storage, we will have to look toward BluRay and HD-DVD. " [edit] Are you thinking about giving up on the M10 lines problem? | ||||||
| KeepItSimple posted 2005 Jul 13 04:22 | ||||||
| I just got a brand new DR-M10 (great deal on Ebay) that was manufactured May 2004 Made In Japan. Is this one that might show a loading error? I plan on enabling Power Save mode to avoid the problem (as suggested) but I'd still like to know if this is one of those :D . I understand that if you take it to a JVC center they will fix it. Is there one near Sacramento, CA or would I have to ship it somewhere? Thanks!
oh btw: The M10 has 3 sets of A/V inputs (2 in the back and 1 in the front). I was looking at the back of an M100 at Fry's and I'm pretty sure it only has one set of inputs on the back. What a gyp. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Jul 13 12:59 | ||||||
| Yes, April and May seem to be the most common months for the "loading" problem to occur. The good news is that JVC will repair it even out of warranty. I would suggest not avoiding the problem but let it occur and have it serviced as soon as possible. I doubt JVC will continue the free program indefinitely especially now that the replacement model is out. After that it is $100/hour for service. | ||||||
| KeepItSimple posted 2005 Jul 13 13:23 | ||||||
Okay how do I do I do that? And how I enable that power save mode? I can't find anything about it in the manual or by poking thru the menus on the unit. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Jul 13 13:56 | ||||||
If you enable "power save mode" to avoid it, you are delaying the inevitable. Just use the unit as you would normally. Power Save is described on the Display page of the manual.
 | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Jul 13 15:07 | ||||||
| trhouse,
No, I`m not going to give up. At least until I will not want to buy a new one. But I don`t want to buy a new one yet ) Just timeout in experiments until I have some work to do first ) About DVD Dl format - sorry I mean 8,4 Gb size of caurse ). Question that KeepItSimple asked also interesting me - what if porblem begans when I tryed powersave mode on ? | ||||||
| Ade007 posted 2005 Jul 19 12:05 | ||||||
| I just got the jvc-mh30 yesterday and I plugged it in and it started blanking "Loading". These's nothing I can do because the only way it stops blanking "Loading" is if I unpplug it. I've tried unplugging it and then blugging it back on but I still get the same error.
I called crutchield and they said another one will be shipped to me because theres nothing that can be done if we can't get by the "Loading error". :( | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Jul 19 12:21 | ||||||
| MAybe you need to wait a bit more before Loading disapper ? Because when I bought my DR-M10 it also took about 2-3 mins before loading stoped flashing. It makes shop`s perosnal getting nerveous though something was wrong, but in fact it was only first time you switch it on. | ||||||
| tangerine posted 2005 Jul 19 13:31 | ||||||
Don't despair. That is normal for 1 minute. Did you wait for a minute? If blinkig stops after a minute then your recorder is fine. I have a DR-MH20 (the same as DR-MH30 except the HDD only 80 GB) and mine does the same from the very first time. I was also horrified when I first saw "Loading" but there was a paper sticked on the machine claiming that is normal. | ||||||
| Ade007 posted 2005 Jul 19 14:50 | ||||||
| It's been on for hours now with it still blinking "Loading". Yesterday, it was on for about 30 min and today over 5 hours now. | ||||||
| tangerine posted 2005 Jul 19 15:04 | ||||||
Well, that is not normal. Your recorder is defective. :cry: Is that a brand new recorder or used? | ||||||
| Ade007 posted 2005 Jul 19 15:07 | ||||||
| It's brand new, just arrived yesterday from Crutchfeld. This is the first time I've bought a product thats defective. This gives me great concern. | ||||||
| tangerine posted 2005 Jul 19 15:28 | ||||||
| :(
Then nothing else you can do than asking for a replacement unit from the seller. | ||||||
| broadway posted 2005 Jul 19 16:11 | ||||||
| For my unit, I've found that even when the unit is completely off - LED display totally dark - that if I turn off the power on the surge protector that the JVC is plugged into, that the LOADING message will start flashing.
It's like it senses change in the powerline - odd. If after waiting a minute or two and the LOADING doesn't stop, try pushing and holding in the power switch on the front of the unit for about 30 seconds. It *seems* to work on my unit. | ||||||
| Ade007 posted 2005 Jul 19 17:19 | ||||||
I've tried that. I went through that with the tech people @ Crutchfield, still same problem. It won't stop blinking "Loading", which makes doing anything else impossible. | ||||||
| tangerine posted 2005 Jul 19 17:36 | ||||||
| From the manual (if you have not tried yet)
Malfunction occurs on the unit. Press "power" to turn off the unit, press and hold "power", then press "stop" for two seconds or more. | ||||||
| Ade007 posted 2005 Jul 19 19:08 | ||||||
Done that too. I now have to decide if I want Cruychfield to send me another JVC DVD recorder of choose another brand. | ||||||
| JAB285 posted 2005 Jul 20 18:34 | ||||||
I don't know if this helps or not, but I've had my mh30 for over six weeks and I haven't had a problem with it. It's been a great performer and I recently had it on for 13 hours straight recording a Battlestar Galactica marathon. It recorded all 13 hours with no problems. I think you may have just got a bad one. Just my two cents. | ||||||
| Neuron posted 2005 Jul 21 09:58 | ||||||
| I have my DR-MH30 for almost two months and unit has no problems whatsoever. So far so good. I hope this machine will not disappoint me in the future. At least for now I'm happy with. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Jul 28 15:19 | ||||||
| trhouse,
sorry timeout was a bit longer then it suppose to be. Finaly I measured resistance between powersupply`s pins 1-3 (B5302) connector and 21-24 pins of didiboard connectors - D1.8V - they a re directly connected - so no ideas how the voltage drops (( But then again 1.92 is out from powersupply and 1.81 comes to DMN chip! But I need to add some words - there was a strong reason for me to open cover and dismount DVD drive- after two weeks beeing off in power safe mode I tryed to switch on - got Wake up message and then, guess what ? Yeah! Loading start flashing endlessly. I tryed to switch off and on , unplugging from wall outlet - nothing helps - anyway I measure all voltages - and they was in normal. So I took a last chance - hardware reset - and it helps! Seems like leaving in powersave mode for a long time making unit stick in initilizing procedure - its completly software problem (in my case). Maybe firware update could help in this case. I thought leaving uit in powersave mode off state will cause DMN overheat (even I modified cover for better heat sinking) | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Jul 30 03:27 | ||||||
| MiG-45,
How did you measure the D1.8V? Was the ground point the same in both measurements. Sometimes the loss is not in the + side but the ground return path. For example, if you measure the resistance from the metal box for the DMN to a ground on the power supply board, do you find anything? It is not easy to determine if a problem is firmware or hardware without a logic analyzer. Since it is normal for the unit to show "loading" when first plugged in, it is possible that the circuit that tells the processor what state it is in is continuously telling the processor that the unit has just been plugged in. It does not hurt to update the firmware either way. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Jul 30 06:35 | ||||||
| trhouse,
Both times I measured with the same ground - metal case. Well, I will measure if there is resistance between metal case and digital ground. But it seems to me that its the same gound, becuase metalic cover screwed to metal case and in some places soldered to digital board near the middle, and on the edges | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Aug 03 21:14 | ||||||
| MiG-45,
If the DMN draws 1 A. on the D1.8V, the resistance must be around 0.1 ohm for a 0.1V drop. If the DMN draws less, like 0.5 A, the resistance would be about 0.2 ohm. You do not find anything like these numbers? | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Aug 04 12:46 | ||||||
| yes, there is 0.15 ohm, but I thught it could be resistance of wire itself. Because it is about 30 cm long | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Aug 04 13:17 | ||||||
That is a lot more than can be accounted for by 30 cm of ribbon cable. Here is the spec. of typical ribbon cable. The resistance is 67.5 ohm per 1,000 feet or 0.0675 ohm per foot which is about 30 cm.
P.S. I thought the measurement of D1.8V from the power supply was about +2.03V before. Now it has dropped to +1.92? From May 1, 2005 post "yeah 2.03 is the exact voltage I measured from PQ5EV3 output!" | ||||||
| danib666 posted 2005 Aug 13 05:38 | ||||||
| i recently purchased a few of the DR-M10S's at a local auction house, one of them had no remote so after testing it using the remote from one of the others i decided to keep it for myself. i then sold the others on ebay & used some of the money i got back to buy a new remote for my unit but on first use since i got the remote the bloody thing gives this loading error constantly! :-x
i see the american users seem to have this quite well sorted now with JVC America offering the free repair but over here in the UK JVC are being no help at all and the only repair center they put me through to was next to useless :roll: the service center i spoke to didn't even seem to know what the DR-M10 was let alone how to fix it :? has anyone from the UK successfully got their unit fixed & where did they send it if so? | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Aug 13 13:16 | ||||||
| trhouse
Yeah, you right - I didn`t noticed that output voltage drop from 2.03 to 1.92 - will monitor this value for some days! Now its 1.99v it flows.... | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Aug 14 03:21 | ||||||
| MiG-45,
I did some analysis of how much variation should be expected with this circuit with the PQ5EV3 and resistors R5319, 5320 determining D1.8V. The variation of the reference voltage is +/- 1 mV over a temperature range of 0-40 degrees C. The drift of the resistors is +/- 50 ppm/degree C. The output voltage change due to load variation is a maximum of 0.5% for the PQ5EV3. Taking all these items into consideration, the output voltage should not change by more than about +/-1% or +/-20 mV. A change from 2.03 to 1.92 is 110 mV. Something is not right. Can you monitor both pin 2 and 4 of PQ5EV3 ? Pin 2 is D1.8V. Pin 4 should be about +1.24V. If pin 2 changes by 110 mV and 4 does not change, then either R5319 or R5320 is bad. If pin 2 changes by 110 mV and pin 4 changes by 67 mV then the PQEV3 is bad. What happens at the DMN8652 end when the PQ5EV3 output changes? That is if the PQ5EV3 output is +1.92V and the DMN end is +1.81, does the DMN end go to +1.88 V when the PQ5EV3 is at +1.99 V? | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2005 Aug 15 06:18 | ||||||
| Hi,
Still reading this forum on and off. danib666, I have a DR-MV1S bought from ebay (UK) not a M10, so not from yourself (Scary thought, your customers pursue you in tech help groups). JVC support has been one sentence "refer to your dealer" so I thought I'd look at it myself and maybe learn something. I used to see regular restarts followed by 'loading' after a recording (from tv or dub) had been in progress for 0.5-2 hours. On this thread (see posts throughout May 2005) we diagnosed a lot of temperature related issues. Anyway my advice is that the MV1S performs much better when 3 things are done: Good Media - I'm now using RiDisc 2X RW's (which are made by TDK) with no problems. The first media I laid my hands on after getting the unit was PCWorld (Optodisc) which just didn't do it. I had disc errors with them too. Power Save - Set to on. Though with enough changes, it should be possible to leave the unit on 24/7 without overheating. I might be at that point now :-) Cool Internals - I've added extra ventilation slots in the case above the psu & along the right hand side, and removed internal obstructions to airflow (internal bracketry had extraneous metal). I opened up the 'digital can' and adjusted the can so that it made thermal contact (and added grease to) to the big chip inside. Thus heat could leave the device easier and be radiated-off by the can, which was the original intent, we thought. And, together with the guys on this forum I made some circuit changes - I lowered a digital supply voltage from 2V to 1.77V to reduce heat, and beefed-up a few other resistors to aid heat dissipation. Also an additional heatsink on the switchmode i.c. to lower temperature when the unit is in standby (when the fan does not run). These changes would probably not be possible for anyone not able in electronics. The bad news is that all the mods might not be required (but I wanted to use the machine, not work out the minimal set of changes). Now the machine is working reliably, and the record/playback quality is very good, I'm impressed. Dare I say, it was worth it. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Aug 15 13:58 | ||||||
| Just done a few tests - tryed to operate without metal cover on digiboard - after 14 hours of working - no mater on or off (if off , ofcaurse not in powersave) - tons of green lines , hangs and restars with infinit loading cycles - only unplugging helps. Turning unit in powersave mode doesnt` help much - 8 times out of 10 after "Wakeup" message going Loading and it flashing endless - no responce to any buttons - nor from remote neither from front panel - unit hangs. Now add extra copper plate on metalic cover of digibiard - 48 hours working ok. | ||||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 Aug 15 14:18 | ||||||
| It's nice to see some mods are able to fix these flaws. Somebody should provide repair services like arizonasteve has done for Apex and Cyberhome equipment.
A few of them don't even sound all that difficult. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Aug 15 15:18 | ||||||
| MiG-45,
Removing the digiboard cover removes the heatsinking from the DMN8652 does it not? I am more worried about the wandering D1.8V. If it goes in the wrong direction, you know what will happen to the DMN8652? It really should not be allowed to exceed +1.89V. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Aug 15 19:58 | ||||||
| trhouse,
yep. You right in other words I just removed heatsink from DMN to see how heating affect the situation. I tryed to measure (again) 1.8V output from PS in different circumstancies - opening and closing drive`s tray, switching on and off unit etc. And after all it seems that this voltage is pritty stable - 1.99 sometimes 1.98V. So only teperature playing some role. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Aug 15 21:52 | ||||||
| Mig-45,
You took some risk running without heatsinking. What is the D1.8V at the DMN8652 end now with +1.99V at the PQ5EV3? A higher than spec. voltage causes increased heating too. Sounds like your test proved the DMN is the source of these issues. Why not do like enlsnws and add more heatsinking to the DMN or lower that voltage a little? | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2005 Aug 16 03:51 | ||||||
| Mig-45,
It looks like you've demostrated that extra heatsink on the digital can (your extra copper plate) makes an difference. If you can't add even more heatsink, maybe now is the time to lower the supply voltage too. The principle is the same as CPUs .... heat is related to voltage. People undervolt their CPUs to permit no-fan heatsinks etc. Or in the JVC case, bringing it down from 1.99V to something around the right voltage (I set mine to 1.77V if you remember). Undervolting is not always bad, most digital devices work ok with mild undervolt, and you will know when you've gone too far .... there will be operational or video problems. Then just increase it a little. In my MV1S there is no space for this, but perhaps you could go further and solder on lots of thin copper fins to the digital can? I think I wrote earlier in the thread how I used a VGA heatsink fixed by thermal tape, which was enough for me, but don't forget I also have also reduced the D1.8V to 1.77V. Perhaps even solder on a small Zalmann heatsink, but you'll need a plumber's blowtorch to do that. That would be cool in more ways than one! Make sure also you have airflow going past the fins or it won't cool effectively... I put extra holes in the front right hand side to pull air past the digital can then out through the fan. It sounds like you're getting closer to a solution. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Aug 16 04:35 | ||||||
| Mig-45 and emlsnws,
Looks increasingly that you both have the same problem or at least the same solution. +1.77V is not really undervoltage, the DMN8652 is quaranteed to work properly with +1.62 to +1.89V with +1.8V typical. It has twice as much margin going lower (0.18V) as going higher (0.09V). | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Aug 16 05:50 | ||||||
| As I wrote - I add copper plate to DMN`s cover to add more heatsinking. Not sure about lowering voltage. One thing looking odd - if the problem is realy in DMN`s heatsinking, why then only DR-m10 model suffering from it ?Why M30 doesnt` ? Would be interesting if owner of M30 tell us if heatsink contruction is same as in M10 | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Aug 16 13:53 | ||||||
| The M10 was introduced in March, 2004, the MV1 in April, 2004, the MH30 was not available until June, 2004. That may have provided enough time for the M10 problems to have surfaced and solved in the MH30 before it went to production. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Aug 16 16:37 | ||||||
| Would be intersting to see M30 service manual to find out if there are schematic differencies (excluding HDD interface part)
And also to see in there are any visual differencies inside - somebody with M30 could post photos.....sigh | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Aug 16 20:29 | ||||||
| Damn! Green lines lots of them are back! But....only when drive activates - tray opne/close, disk spining etc - something isn`t right - need to find out how drive operating affects power supply - checked 1.8 - its in normal condition in all circumstancies.
Check +5V on drive connector - when drive activates - especialy tray - voltage seriously flows from 5.24V to 4.79 ! On +12V - same drive connector - it flows from +13.2 to +11.5. Is it normal ? | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Aug 16 22:19 | ||||||
| I went back over the power supply schematic for those voltages. DV12V is an unregulated +12V that only supplies the drive and nothing else. It can be switched off by Q5316 in power save mode.
DV5V is an unregulated +5V that can be switched off by Q5315 in power save mode. It also supplies IC5308 which creates the regulated +3.3V labelled DV3.3V which supplies IC5307 which creates the regulated +1.8V labelled DC1.8V. Both DV3.3V and DC1.8V supply the DVD-RAM DRIVE for "except Europe". In your unit they should not be used. So yes, that type of variation is pretty normal for unregulated supplies and these voltages seem not used for anything else in your unit. P.S. there are two large, 2 watt resistors, R5307 and R5308. They are at the output of the +12V to the drive. These resistors consume power even in power save mode. They actually consume more power in power save mode. It might be worth checking if they are ok. Power save mode does not really turn off the DV5V or DV12V, they are on but disconnected from the drive. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Aug 17 14:46 | ||||||
| Something is wrong here. I also see that +12 & +5V comes from separate lines only for drive`s supply, but how, then, it affect DMN`s behaviour ? And if heating is the only reason of disfunction, why then if I use additional coolers to cool down chips it doesn`t help ? Only switching off (any kind of way) solve problem ?
I monitored 1.8 on DMN pin whole day - all the time it was in range and can`t say it flows much | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Aug 17 16:21 | ||||||
| Your tests and images are pretty convincing in that only the DMN can be producing the faults. Temperature and voltage are among the few external factors influencing the DMN. I would concentrate your efforts in those areas.
Why the reluctance to lower the D1.8V a bit? | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Aug 17 19:23 | ||||||
| Yeah , sure its DMN, but what cause its faults ?
D1.8 is fine - whatever happens around. Temperature - well at firs sight it seems so, but why then lowing temp with external methods - hardcooling, adding heatsinking surfaces etc didn`t help ? I specialy kept its temp around +40C and green lines appers exactly when they should be. And in the same time unplugging unit for even 3 mins - doesn`t cool too much have such a long effect - about a day of good work ? | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Aug 17 20:53 | ||||||
| There is a difference. Turning off the power removes the source of the heat. Heatsinking removes heat to the surroundings. It is a little like heating water on a gas stove. The flame heats the cold water. The water absorbs heat until it boils. When it boils the water temperature remains the same as the steam carries the heat to the surroundings but the flame is just as hot as before. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Aug 18 20:02 | ||||||
| So you mean DMN generates heat itself so much that it cause faults and heatsinking noway could help ? Or you mean something burned out inside chip ? But till doesn`t explane how drive behaviour makes chip behaves so... I`m start thinking ATAPI interface need to be checked - maybe drive (LG-Hitachi) become faulty. (Honestly, I`m not sure in LG components at all) | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Aug 18 20:56 | ||||||
| "And in the same time unplugging unit for even 3 mins - doesn`t cool too much have such a long effect - about a day of good work ?"
The power in the silicon die is determined by the voltage and current you supply to it like via D1.8V. Below is a description of die temperatures for a reasonable life for the chip. 
As you can see, the die may be at 175 degrees C when the heatsink is at 45 degrees C. The die is very small so when you turn off the power its temperature drops to that of the heatsink very quickly very much like if you turn off the gas, the temperature of the water does not change much in three minutes even though the flame is instantly cold. If you want to prove anything about the drive, disconnect it for awhile. If you still have problems, it cannot be the drive. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Aug 19 17:48 | ||||||
| Searching for solvation I found a guy who finaly got his unit repared and here is repairing history:
First repair on 8/16/04 and replaced: PMD0100 AMECHA ASSY Second repair on 9/8/04 and replace: LPA10236-01C DIGI. PWD ASSY Third repair on 2/25/05 and replaced: LPA10236-01B DIGI. PWD ASSY QECS1AM-158 E. CAPACITOR QECS0JM-478 E. CAPACITOR Im not sure - LPA10236 - is it complete digi board ???! Note, that only after the last effort unit working fine till present time. trhouse, Will be interesting to hear your comments! I`m still not disconected drive because not sure unit will initiliazed fine without it. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Aug 19 23:54 | ||||||
| That is not very good news. The LPA10236 is the entire digital board. BIX reported on Jan. 17, 2005 on this thread
Under Parts: Part Number: LPA10236-01E Description: DIGI.PWB ASSY the same kind of repair but it did not solve the problem like the second repair you showed. JVC must believe the digital board is the the culprit to swap it so many times. You do not have the option of swapping digital boards until one works like JVC. I would lower D1.8V. It is one of the few options you have left without buying a digital board. Those capacitor part numbers do not exist in the parts list in the manual. They are 1,500 ufd ( QECS1AM-158 ) and 4,700 ufd ( QECS0JM-478 ) parts. They may be a replacement part which is more robust than what was there before but it is hard to tell which parts they replace. Either that or the manual is old and they are using those parts in newer units. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Aug 20 19:25 | ||||||
| I`m analzyed facts and it seems that digiboard if it realy becomes damaged is an result, but not the reason. While capasitors are more like is the reason - all sympthoms looks that kind. Maybe I`m wrong - but need to find and check this parts... If they aren`t in PS part, they are works as filter. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Aug 21 01:36 | ||||||
| Do you have access to this other M10? The easiest way would be to look at the capacitors on the boards. These are not small capacitors so they should be not too difficult to find.
Remember that JVC found it necessary to replace the digital board not just the capacitors. That could prove costly if you need to do both. | ||||||
| Pridepaqrk posted 2005 Aug 30 04:49 | ||||||
| Hi, I could really do with some concise help on this issue. I have seen so many posts on this that I hope someone can clarify quickly and easily for me what I (may) need to do to repair my unit to get around the 'Loading' problem. Apologies if I am asking you guys to repeat yourself.
My unit details are: JVC DR-MV1 SEK (made in Germany) S/n 109B 1658 I am in England and purchased the unit here for the UK market. The unit, as per everyone else's, was working very well for about 6 months and then I started getting green interference and snow which I could get rid of by powering off the unit for a few moments. That is until the other week when all I get is 'Loading'. The video unit still works fine but the DVD unit is totally unresponsive. If anyone can point me in direction of which resistors need replacing etc then I would be extremely grateful. Thanks Richard | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Aug 30 05:20 | ||||||
| A few questions first. How comfortable do you feel about getting inside the unit? Do you have access to some test equipment like a digital or analog voltmeter, ohmmeter? Do you have the schematics? Does the unit show a manufacture date?
About the problem. When you say the video unit works, do you mean the VCR, the TV tuner? Did the green interference resemble that reported by MiG-45 shown here?  | ||||||
| Pridepaqrk posted 2005 Aug 30 06:48 | ||||||
| Hi trhouse, many thanks for speedy reply on this. My brother is a qualified telecoms engineer so he's got electrical testing gear and is more than happy to delve inside and do anything necessary - as long as I tell him what! Sadly I just have the std operating manual, no schematics, I did do a net search but either I wasn't serching for the right thing or there are none out there (freely available).
Yes, the interference was exactly as shown, in varying degrees of bad to terrible. Yes, I mean VCR unit plays tapes ok and I can use as any other normal VCR unit: ie program, record, playback etc. This part of the whole unit seems totally unaffected by the 'loading' problems with DVD section. Manufacture date: Hands up, I didn't check for one but will do when I get home from work. If it helps at all, I did purchase this unit from QVC as they had a large 'managers special' on these units so my best guess is they knew of the problem in the states and quickly offloaded the UK stock before it become publicised over here. Also, if it helps, my unit is identical to that as advertised in UK ebay auction 5803787523. Any further info needed then just boot me up the rear and I'll get it. Thanks again Richard | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Sep 01 03:52 | ||||||
| Pridepaqrk,
or do you prefer Richard? I would suggest a private email to emlsnws who has posted above. He is also in the UK and has a service manual for the MV1. I received a copy from emlsnws for helping analyze his MV1 but I would feel a bit guilty giving it out again as I am sure he paid for his copy. The first step would be to measure all the voltages from the power supply to make sure they are within acceptable limits. I believe emlsnws found one to be out of specification in his MV1 and also that a thermally conductive pad for removing heat from the encoder chip was not quite adequate for the job. If he is not too far away, he may be able to share what he has done by showing you. [edit] last I heard, he is no longer having any problems with the MV1. | ||||||
| Pridepaqrk posted 2005 Sep 01 07:28 | ||||||
| Hi, yes prefer Richard, especially since I can't splel and my username should be 'pridepark' without the 'q'.
That'll be a great idea thanks and will follow that through. If story has a happy ending I'll let you know. Cheers again | ||||||
| merkin posted 2005 Sep 08 02:48 | ||||||
| I recently purchased a whole load of refurbished DR-M10S from Ebuyer here in the UK, 1 for me and 4 others for family members (they were selling at £74.99 which I thought was a great price). I'm in my second day of use and am now experiencing green lines all over the place and the system hanging requiring a restart. I hadn't known about any issues and, needless to say, I'm very gutted.
I haven't read through all 12 pages of this thread, but can someone just tell me if there's anything I can do to try and fix this? I'd have no idea what I'm doing in terms of opening the thing up, so that's out of the question. Should I just send the whole lot back and get a refund?! Anyone had any experiences with JVC UK? | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Sep 08 03:31 | ||||||
| This is the problem MiG-45 is experiencing. You might want to look at his posts. The problem was never entirely resolved, except that JVC replaces some parts and the entire digital board as a solution. We found in this thread that a voltage to the digital board may be excessive and that a thermal pad to conduct heat away was not working adequately. What remains unknown is if these conditions do permanent damage to the digital board.
If only one unit behaves like this, the deal might not be too bad, but if more are this way, the cost of having JVC repair them out of warranty is probably prohibitive. If you do not feel comfortable opening them, I would suggest returning them if possible. Regarding JVC UK, you might private email enlsnws who is also in the UK about his experience. | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2005 Sep 08 03:56 | ||||||
| Hi trhouse & all,
I've privately emailed Richard about what he has ahead of him to see if his problem can be fixed. My machine never showed green lines (like Mig-45 and others) so I don't know if my modifications detailed above in this thread will help them. There is a listing of the factors that seemed to contribute to the 'loading' problem I saw, in my posting in this thread (page 11) back on 15th August 2005. Then in postings from then back to May 2005 there should be full details of the electrical changes I made. (The 'search' facility should be able to list all posts made by me, in this thread). I don't have a detailed listing I can post, and right now no time to prepare one. Maybe in the future. But by reading all my posts, someone could compile a list of what I did (and I could verify it). It *could* be that the green lines are a symptom of a heat-damaged DMN chip, the one that I've heatsinked, and once damaged it might not be possible to recover the situation. (Or it may be, just exceeding a certain temperature and with more heatsinking it will not reach the green line level). Richard is the one in position to answer that one (once his brother has got to work on the machine), and Mig-45 also. Choosing a refund is a decision made when bearing in mind the alternative, possibly a month or two of waiting to see if someone solves it, and then having the ability to make the same changes to 5 machines. If you don't want to open the machines, following the refund path is best - I guess. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Sep 08 05:42 | ||||||
| One thing is seems strange to me - I talked with sellers in many shops about this model. They says - nobody return units and there are no reclamations on this model. Same things people keep saying in service centers. I suspect that problem appers only when one day people activate powersave mode. At least in my case I have no problems unitll that. | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2005 Sep 08 06:36 | ||||||
| Ah, I forgot to point out that I have DR-MV1S which is the combo model, not the DR-M10S.
I usually point it out in my other postings relating to modifications etc, but of course all detail relates to that model. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Sep 08 15:59 | ||||||
| We now have Richard, Merkin, and MiG-45 with the green line problem. I agree that Richard's brother and MiG-45 have the best chance of resolving two important questions. What is the primary cause and is the damage reversible.
Merkin with five units offers the best opportunity to see what temperatures and voltages are present in a correctly operating unit vs one with a problem but I would not suggest doing that if it is uncomfortable. enlsnws, I hope you do not mind my referring others to you. Even though you did not have green lines most of your work involved voltage and temperature issues with the digital board which seems to be the source of green lines as well. | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2005 Sep 09 03:36 | ||||||
| No, I don't mind. Although in a few weeks I'm getting married so basically the next month is going to be v.busy with all the preparation and honeymoon. I'll keep an eye on the thread but can't promise to get involved much over the coming weeks...
Virtually all of my knowledge is here on the thread, albeit spread over quiet a few posts, so (as I suggested in a pm) someone could 'distil' it into a list of modifications. I could then check this for accuracy. Having said that, it was only a good set of mods for (what appeared to be) heat-related restarts (with "loading" displayed) after 1-2 hours of dubbing or recording. Getting good media also made a big difference. The first -R's I tried did not record successfully and I thought I'd bought a lemon machine. Also as I keep stressing, it's unknown if these changes might not be useful for the greenline problem, but they might - assuming no permanent damage has been done. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Sep 09 03:47 | ||||||
| Congratulations!!! | ||||||
| andybray posted 2005 Sep 11 16:26 | ||||||
| My JVC M10 was deemed irrepairable in June this year due to the fact that JVC could no longer supply a replacement board to the designated repairer. So people still encountering the classic problems (Flashing "Loading" and the green lines) may have difficulty getting a fix from JVC.
Personally based on my experience of an M10 for a year, I would not buy a refurb/used one at any price. I was tempted to buy a 2nd DVD recorder for a 2nd TV. Just knowing it's gone wrong once and been fixed is not good enough. Mine failed 3 times in a year. I don't think ANY piece of consumer electronics has ever done that to me before. Andy P.S. I'm in UK and so reflects what JVC UK could offer in terms of fix | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Sep 12 19:54 | ||||||
| A far as I can see now (checking whole digiboard with osciloscope) - after working about 72 hours DMN`s chip shows strange behaviour - on wires goes to JVC`s output chip stranhe noise appers , while other inputs including powersupply staying clear and in normal condition. Trying to cool down DMN chip doesn`t help - only removing power from digiboard for at least 10 minuts solve the problem, but 10 minuts gives only 5-6 hours to work. To make it work fine for next 72 hours you need to remove power for at least 2-3 hours.
I guess that all I can discover at home without any special diagnostic equipment ( Anyway I have no way to soldering out such a huge chips and no spare parts - dunno what to do next | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Sep 12 20:36 | ||||||
| Are you familiar with the cooling fans they use for the Pentium processor? I would use one of those on the chip. The hard part is how to mount it to do the most good. The fan does not cost much and should improve the cooling considerably. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Sep 17 17:04 | ||||||
| yes, I know about the computer cooling systems. I trying to find how to mount those fan on chip - I will need to do a hole on top of "can" for heatsink , but how to make it locked on chip - there is now way to screw it to somewhere ( | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Sep 17 18:19 | ||||||
| Can you make a hole in the cover and mount the fan to the cover so it blows directly on the chip? | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Sep 17 18:28 | ||||||
| well, I can but not sure if it will be effective ? I thought about mounting heatsink+fan construction like it is on old Mac`s (Performa) - there is CPU Motorola 68060 it have flat keramic case and there was specialthermal compound - mix of glue and metalic grid - it gives heatsink good lock and thermal conduction. There is another question - at first I thought to connect fan to DVD drive`s power connector - but it appers when unit iturns off - there is no power ( | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Sep 17 19:56 | ||||||
| Hook it to the same power supply as the rear panel fan. Just use a resistor to lower the voltage if it is necessary. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Sep 17 20:07 | ||||||
| nope - if you know it also stops when unit turns off! | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Sep 17 20:35 | ||||||
| Maybe I misunderstand what you are trying to do. Do you want it to run when the unit is plugged in and turned off? Not sure that is really necessary if no power is going to that chip. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Sep 18 05:24 | ||||||
| Thats exactly the reason why it becomes overheated! When Unit is pluged in and turned off (not powersave mode) only output part going offline. And internal fan stops , so no cooling at all and digiboard start heating! So its the time when DMN hardly need to be cooled because of no other source of cooling. When unit is on system fan somehow make hot air moving and it not so critical (as I think) | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Sep 19 02:11 | ||||||
| The +17V on pin 23 of connector CN5301 of the power supply board seems to unused by the M10. It is on if the M10 is plugged in even in power save mode. If you use a +12V fan, you will need a resistor to drop the voltage down to 12V. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Sep 19 12:19 | ||||||
| trhouse thank you very much for your help! I will let your know about results as soon as I find good enough cooler for this purpose.
Also , I `ve got information from ppl who also searching for solution of this problem that seems to me usefull: Quote: "....Having compared a 2004 model (overheats) with a 2005 model (works fine) I have noticed one subtle change on the components. Capacitor C5207 on the 2004 model is 6.3v 1500uF The capacitor on the newer model is 6.3v 4700uF, much larger. All other components remain unchanged. I would suggest changing this capaitor. I have photos for anybody wanting to see the physical differences...." | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Sep 19 12:39 | ||||||
| C5207 is the first filter capacitor ( the other one is C5307 ) for the unregulated AL5.3V supply. On the schematic it is rated 1,500 ufd, 10V but in the parts list it says it is 2,200 ufd, 10V.
This capacitor will lower the power line ripple on this supply. P.S. This voltage is also always on as long as the M10 is plugged in but unlike the +17, is being used. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Sep 19 13:24 | ||||||
| No , no , my mistake I forgot to say , he talked about model with VHS M1V (if I remeber correctly) | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Sep 19 13:40 | ||||||
| No problem. In the MV1, C5207 is 1,500 ufd, 6.3V. It is the first filter capacitor to the power supply voltage that feeds the PQ5EV3 regulator. That is the regulator that provides D1.8V. A larger capacitor would do the same, reduce the ripple to the regulator. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Sep 19 13:43 | ||||||
| You think I should try to replace it with bigger capasitor ? | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Sep 19 14:27 | ||||||
| There is some risk but more to the MV1 than the M10. In the MV1, a single diode ( D5208, p/n RK34-LFB2 ) supplies a 1,500 ufd, 6.3V capacitor but in the M10, two paralleled diodes ( D5203, D5304, same p/n RK34-LFB2 ) supplies a 2,200 ufd, 10V capacitor.
The reason for this is as follows. The capacitors have no voltage when the unit has been unplugged from the wall. When it is plugged in, the diode must supply current to charge the capacitor to raise the voltage from zero. During this time, the diode is under a lot of stress from both voltage and current. The larger the capacitor, the longer is this stressful period. In the MV1, they probably should have added an extra diode like the M10 has, but if the MV1 can survive with one diode, you should be ok. That is the only downside, otherwise the larger capacitor will produce a cleaner voltage to the PQ5EV3. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Sep 21 17:32 | ||||||
| Just notice - when soldering out C5203 - that all 3 diods D5308, D5309 & D5310 have evidances of heat - brown circles on plate - seems like them getting very hot during oparation. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Sep 22 13:54 | ||||||
Just replaced capasitor and mounting cooler w/ heatsink. Will report about results.
Besides, I`m now pritty sure that the reason of this mulfunction is powersave mode. Analyzing all information I have: I didn`t have any problems untill once I activate powersave mode also, about a month ago when I was away for two weeks unit was in powerave mode and when I return I tryed to switch it on and got first time loading problem. After that time before green lines appers shrinks from 7 days to 2-3 days. Another provement of that is that people who report problems with green lines used powersave mode. Thats why when I asked salers in shops they keep saying that never heard about such problems with this unit - it doesn`t have russian langauge in setup so most people just setup country when unit on first time and use it as it is no serious setup. One of my friends - thanks him for testing, bought DR-M10 in january and have no problems, recently I asked him to try to switch powersave mode once - after ten days green lines appers on his unit (he succesfully replace it with new now).. So now I will going also to analyze what can be damaged in powersave mode. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Sep 22 15:32 | ||||||
| That is a very impressive heatsink/fan. Here is some information about the power supplies in powersasve mode.
In powersave mode the following power supplies are turned off, D1.8V, D2.5V, D3.3V, D5V DC3.9V+ DV3.3V, DV5V, DV12V SW5V, SW12V V3.3V The ones that remain on are +17V, +48V unregulated -29V unregulated AL5.3V regulated AL-12V regulated AL12V regulated The unregulated supplies will change the most when you go to powersave mode. They will go up in voltage. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Sep 23 17:47 | ||||||
| Well, after all i`ve done - results are not good as expacted - lots of green lines appers after only 3 hours of work after that units hangs. Any ideas whta to try next ? | ||||||
| pepegot1 posted 2005 Sep 23 22:00 | ||||||
| When I use "power save" mode the unit stays cool-no problems, over one year now. When not in power mode it gets hot. Heat is the problem. With all the use in over a year, and no problems, I won't even think about any mode but the power save one. | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Sep 24 05:42 | ||||||
| pepegot1,
Heat damaged once it overheated. Powersave is good but helps if you use unit for short time - less then 12 hours in a day, also took time to wake it up. Like old lamp radios ) | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Sep 24 05:46 | ||||||
| Are you able to tell what the chip temperature is with the new fan/heatsink in place? | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2005 Sep 24 05:58 | ||||||
| I measured - temp is 28C - I suppose its ideal condition | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Sep 25 13:23 | ||||||
| It looks like temperature is not the problem. You seem to have some test equipment available. Do you have an adjustable regulated power supply? | ||||||
| un.copro posted 2005 Nov 25 11:50 | ||||||
| Hi everybody,
Hope I not arrive to late in that discussion. First of all, i would thank trhouse, MiG-45, and emlsnws for the extensive tests done on this "loading" error. With your results I COULD REPARE MY DR-MV1 frozen with that error ! I hope the following informations can help others having that type of trouble.. if it's not too late. I bought my machine, PAL version, in september 2004 (manufactured in Germany, no manufacture date, but the DVD driver is dated june 2004). I used it very heavily during more than 1 year (burning roughly 2000 h, often running 7 days/week with the timer) and 3 days ago it suddenly locked on the "loadind" error, wich I had never seen before except during a deffective disc loading trial. I also have never seen any green line or other video parasits and what I found opening the case confirms that this fatal error (perhaps not the intermittent one) is due to a temperature problem. Having read a large part of this thread, and having some electronic knowledge, I examined carefully the power board. No trace of hot spots or burned resistors, but a defective capacitor, already mentioned : C 5207. I changed it and everything seems working OK (3 hours continuous burning without problem). My observations : - the large capacitors near the rectifier diodes are rated 105°C instead of 85°C for the rest of the board. If the earlier boards were equiped with standard 85°+C parts, that could explain why they lasted only a couple of weeks, and mine worked more than 1 year under heavy load. - despite this higher temperature rating, the inside temperature around the power diodes is probably near or perhaps over the 105°C, wich leads to fast aging, leakage and destruction of electrochemical capacitors. I am convinced that this failure is the result of a poor thermal design : - the C5207 capacitor nearly touches the wires of a power diode (less than 1 mm distance). - there is plenty of unused space on the board... outside the direct flow of the fan while the high power devices (STR-G6653 and diodes) are away from that flow ! - with the timer on and in idle mode, the fan stops and the case becomes hot after an hour, while the case remains cold if the power is on all time. But the "green lines" problem seems to have a different origin (video probably), and power supply problemes just amplify it. Hope this is usefull. To finish, just a silly question : why not inverse the fan, blowing fresh air to the most dissipative parts ? | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2006 Mar 29 00:57 | ||||||
| I have received a number private messages with requests for copies of the service manuals for the JVC recorders. I received these manuals from either Mig-45 or emlsnws for helping with their repairs. I would not feel right about redistributing an item provided me for helping someone else.
That said, I continue to be interested in helping anyone who wants to try to repair these or other recorders. MojoWorking: Yes it would be nice to see any photos you have taken, but it would be better to post your findings and the photos here so others can benefit from your experience. Below are the two diodes you asked about. Each has an alternate p/n. 
D5502 is not a zener diode like D5503. Its purpose is temperature compensation for drift in D5503. In this application the voltage across D5502 is low so it handles little power. D5503 consumes nearly 38 times more power than D5502 so just worry about D5503. D5503 creates the -29V which is used by the display. Regarding finding C5206 and C5207 blown. It has been my concern that some capacitors in these unit's power supplies are operating too close to their maximum voltage rating. Others have reported that JVC factory service replaced capacitors so I am not suprised. It was correct to replace them with higher voltage rated parts. Increasing the capacitance value itself is unlikely to have much effect. The voltages these parts filter feed into voltage regulator circuits which do more clean up. | ||||||
| MojoWorking posted 2006 Mar 29 22:49 | ||||||
| trhouse -
I can't thank you enough for the info!
Fair enough - I completely understand.
Yes in hindsight I think I should've tried reaching you through the forum first. At any rate, I feel I owe the courtesy of sharing with everyone else the questions/comments I sent you. First off I have the DR-MV1 model - bought it new fall of 2004 - manufacture date of March 2004. It worked great for a few months and then I got the "loading" problem. As others have noted, I observed leaving it unplugged for a long time would sometimes permit it to work, but again only for a short while. I just tossed the darned thing in the closet & a few months later I opened it up for a look-see. I observed that C5206 & C5207 had both blown - bulged & leaked. I replaced them with parts I had on hand - For C5206 I used a 1000uF in parallel w/ a 220uF to replace the 1200uF cap, except these were both 35V parts. For C5207, I scavenged a 1500uF 10V cap from a spent motherboard. As I recall, both of the original caps were rated @ 6.3V. So then things worked for 6-8 months and then I started seeing the green line phenomenon. Again, I just tossed it back in the closet. A couple weeks ago I got inspired to look on the net for any repair info and I came across this thread. It was nice to hear JVC was offering free repairs for the problem, but I figure I voided that consideration by tampering w/ mine. Earlier in the thread was some discussion regarding R5501 & R5502. On mine these are 820ohms & 680ohms, respectively and both are 1/2W parts. On my system, the browning of the PCB in this area almost looks like it stems more from D5503 rather than resistor pairing. Here's a pic - 2 actually - the 2nd is contrast enhanced to show the PCB browning. 
IMO the browning is more pronounced around D5503, which sort of conflicts with others suggesting the heating comes from those resistors. Unfortunately I ended up breaking my D5503 before I could actually test to see which was the culprit. I broke it when attempting to desolder it - admittedly I simply mishandled it. Unfortunately the p/n marking on the zener was facing the board so once it shattered I had no idea what the part was, other than a 27V zener. That's when I decided to contact trhouse. The questions I asked trhouse were basically: - What is the p/n for D5502 & D5503? Would it be appropriate to bump the wattage rating of these parts? - Would you recommend replacing C5207 with a higher capacitance value (ie 2200 or 4700uF)? Same question about C5206? Answers can be found in the previous post. Anyway, I have an appropriate replacement 27V zener on its way - hope to put it in this weekend and make some thermal measurements. Will post back with any news. Thanks again trhouse for taking the time to answer me. Good luck to anyone else who struggles with this product. When it works, it works quite well, but these particular design flaws are pretty weenie if you ask me. ;-) | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2006 Apr 28 05:09 | ||||||
This was found in a description of a product for a JVC DR-M10 multiregion upgrade hack disc on eBay. He claims that silver M10's made before 10/04 have a firmware bug.
| ||||||
| jethro12 posted 2006 May 12 16:20 | ||||||
| Not sure if anyone is still following this thread but I bought a used DR-MV1s which worked for about a week then began getting the green line phenomenon really bad to the point it was only usable for an hour or two even after letting it sit unplugged for a day .It would also turn itself on randomly and go into the loading cycle . I came accross this thread which had some really helpful info.
Emlsnws posted some pictures of the underside of his Digital Board which looked to have a modification that mine didn't have which were 2 resistors which he measured at 1000 ohms each . I had already adjusted the 1.8v line and put a thicker thermal pad but it didn't do anygood. Well I figured I had nothing to lose by trying the modification and so far it has been working for 18 hrs straight with no green lines . My manufactured date is June 2004 for this unit . Below is the picture of emlsnws's digital board which I used for the mod. It's still early on so I don't know if the mod is going to be successful in the long run given that alot of people have had to have theirs fixed multiple times and still had problems but so far so good. img_4925.jpg | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2006 May 12 16:49 | ||||||
| I have a civilian friend who works for a defense company going to Iraq this week. He says he has a JVC DR-M10S with both the loading and green lines problem so he shipped it to me this week to see what can be done. I will post what I find regarding either issue. | ||||||
| razor-12 posted 2006 May 22 04:02 | ||||||
| Hi,
Just for those interested. As a novice to DVD recorders and HHD units i purchased a brand new JVC DRMH-30S less than 3 months ago, and on Friday night it developed the 'loading' issues mentioned on this group. My fault manifested itself whilst deleting a file from the HHD, but has since started to do it again either using the HDD or copying onto DVD. This is a UK unit ,presumably made in Germany. Whats particularly gauling is that JVC has their #300 unit out now and its way below the price i paid for the -30S. Still luckily under UK law i am entitled to a full refund if i can prove it was known that the item had fault issues that JVC knew about and subsequently the Vendor should have known about on an item under 6-12 months old. Will post when i get some news. Dave | ||||||
| kwerrett posted 2006 Jun 07 16:38 | ||||||
| Hi Guys, I am in France and bought a DR-MV1S from ebay UK last year. It was described as boxed as new, fully working, blah, blah, blah. Anyhow it had the dreaded loading fault. Sent it to JVC and got it fixed for about 95 euros including postage. Now it has developed another fault. When I switch on it does the normal loading, all OK, goes to satnd-by with clock on etc. Then after about 3-5 mins after switching on, "click" it switches off completely, no life at all. Have to unplug and replu. Loading, stand-by, reset clock etc. Might be lucky and get 10 mins or so then "click" switch off again.
Any ideas on tis one? Id on't feel like spending out on it again. maybe a home fix. Have opened it up and blown all dust out etc. Still same. thanks in advance. | ||||||
| razor-12 posted 2006 Jun 07 17:22 | ||||||
| further to my last posting JVC wrote to me and offered to swap out my barely off the shelf NEW unit of less than 3 months age, for a second hand 'repaired' unit.
Good deal huh? NOT!! I politely declined their offer and managed under the UK 'sale of goods act' to get a full refund from the store i bought from. for those that dont know, if its les than 6 months old the revised law says that if it was sold with a known issue/ fault your entitled to your money back. The fact that the Store or apparently JVC UK didnt know about this seemingly worldwide fault is neither here nor there. Ker ching into my back pocket , and to think i hate this government for their rules. lol | ||||||
| MiG-45 posted 2006 Jun 13 20:16 | ||||||
| Hi to all!
trhouse - thanks for you help! Long time no posting - I finaly solve my DR-M10 problem in one of service centers - they have info how to fix "green line". there was an issue on old DR-M10/ MH30 models with CPU voltage - LSI chip become damaged - while unit goes power on from standby mode some nasty voltage picks appers on power lines and often damage LSI. In recent revisions there are additional filters made to avoid this problem. Now bought DR-MH300S - cool thing btw )) | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2006 Jun 13 23:40 | ||||||
| Hi Mig-45,
Glad to hear the problem was solved. After all your efforts, it almost had to be a damaged LSI chip . Thanks for posting that voltage spikes are what damaged the LSI. I am going to receive a M10 soon which is supposed to have both the loading and green line problem. I will check for voltage spikes and post any results. I am told it is a July/2004 unit. | ||||||
| icouldrey posted 2006 Jul 07 06:23 | ||||||
| Hi, I've been watching this stream for a while with great interest.
I'm in the UK with the PAL version of the DR-MV1S - unfortunately mine was fine for ages then the loading messages started and the digital-side picture started "green lining" (after the white dots and lines !). VCR fine ! By the time I tried to do something about it, I was too late and warranty had expired. JVC in the UK just were not interested. I tried to get a price from them to have my unit repaired with these known faults - but they wouldn't even provide a price. Basically, they'd only exchange the faulty boards on those under warranty or those under 18 months old with the original purchase receipt (which I've lost !). To move forward, I've followed the some of the suggested fixes - replacing 2 x capacitors and 2 x resistors. Having spent a considerable sum on the unit, I didn't want to just bin it if there was a chance I could get it working I performed the component changes in stages to see the effect..... Firstly, replaced C5207 with 4700uf 6.3v capacitor - that fixed the "LOADING" problem, but still had bad screen. The following week moved on to the resistors - replaced R5501 and R5502 with 560 ohm 0.5w. Then the "LOADING" came back again - so the following week, replaced capacitor C5206 - again with 4700uf 6.3v - et voila ! Everything looked great (for a while !). Also, following another suggestion think I found on here, have drilled holes in the outside cover above the power board to provide extra ventilation. Originally, my screen would start white-dots/lines almost immediately and be totally un-watchable after 20 mins. After the above changes, PERFECT picture for hours. However, after days of having the unit working fantastically, I'm back to the green-line scenario where the picture gradually gets worse. At least I don't get the white dots/lines - so must be moving forward. The picture actually stays OK for a while before the distortion starts, unlike the white-dots appearing immediately. I'm no electrician, but happy enough to change parts on boards - some of the technical discussions went over my head, but I had obviously picked up on the C5206, C5207, R5501 and R5502 changes. Anything else to try ?? (apart from bin the unit and buy another) Cheers. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2006 Jul 07 12:08 | ||||||
| Have you checked the the LSI processor to see if it the silicone rubber, thermal pad is making good contact between the LSI part and the cover? That is the source of green lines. | ||||||
| 4fuksake posted 2006 Jul 12 06:07 | ||||||
| I have had one of these DR-M10S Pal units for about 18 months and it only ever played up once - until now - and I live in the tropics, never had power save mode on or had it properly ventilated and it looks like I now have to pay the price, it is now "loading" constantly. I can not see a date on it but I would assume that it is a 04 model, made in China.
After reading most of the technical comments housed within this forum I thought I would throw my two cents worth in. I have a technical background but I'm afraid I've forgotten too much to help much but looking at the power card I see plenty of heat on the card around the previously mentioned STR-G6653 (IC5101), also around D5310 and Q5310/R5310. R5328/5327 look ok. Caps. C5208/5207/5203 look to have their lids raised a bit but have not leaked. I pulled R5310 out - it's chipped but I think it should be 820ohms, I measure it as 9ohms. The SMD's underneath Q5310 are beyond my equipment/skills/eyes to check. Does Q5310 do anything related to our problem and can it be tested to see if it has also gone ? Which pins do what on IC5101 to check it's operation also ? | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2006 Jul 13 04:47 | ||||||
| The service manual says R5310 is a 8.2 ohm 1/4 watt resistor. Here is a link to the datasheet for IC5101 ( STR-G6653 ). The 6653 is the 120 watt output version of the 6651.
http://www.datasheetarchive.com/search.php?q=str-g6653&sType= ... tDS=Starts Please be careful around this part. The voltages are high and dangerous. Just curious but does the PAL version of the M10 have resistors R5307 and R5308? The reason I ask is because I have a photo of the power supply board which shows these parts are not there ( the spot where they should be is labelled ), but they are on the schematic. These are 2W resistors in front of the row of tall electrolytic capacitors near the middle of the board. Q5310 is a switch which turns on or off a voltage labelled DC3.9(+). The schematic indicates it will change states when PowerSave is enabled but will be on otherwise. | ||||||
| 4fuksake posted 2006 Jul 13 07:46 | ||||||
| Ah ok R5310 is 8.2 ohms that makes sense. gold not brown. The only affect so far installing the 820 was making the vdu not work ? I better put back the 8.2.
No R5308/5307 are not installed. tar. | ||||||
| icouldrey posted 2006 Jul 13 10:08 | ||||||
| thanks trhouse for your response - probably a dumb question - where's the LSI chip please ? | ||||||
| jethro12 posted 2006 Jul 13 12:16 | ||||||
The LSI chip is located inside the metal container underneath the DVD drive. To get to it you will have to remove the metal container . While the thermal pad is a weak area it had no affect on my green line problem . My unit was bought off Ebay as a project. The seller said the only problem was it stopped playing in the middle of movies and shut off.I had no problem with it for the first week of use then it began getting the green lines and shutting down. If I left it on long enough the whole picture would dissappear like when you loose reception from a transmission. Mine became unuseable because I could only have it on for 2 hours or sometimes less and the the green lines would appear and it would shut down. I could unplug it and it would be ok for awhile but basically it became useless because I couldn't set it up for timer record because the LSI chip is online even in standby(Why JVC?) . Anyways I noticed a mod. on the digital processor board that someone posted that mine didn't have which were two 1000 ohm resistors . As I said in the other post I had nothing to lose so I modded my board and it has been running perfectly since. I don't have a schematic for the digital board so I am not sure why it solved the problem. I do run my unit in power save mode when I am not recording a show but I am going to test it without being in power save mode for a couple weeks to stress test it. If that works out I am going to mod my other unit I have which was manufactered at the same time and while it doesn't have the green lines yet I beleive it is only a matter of time. It does have instances in which it randomly turns itself on and goes inot a loading cycle just like the other unit. Now I wouldn't suggest doing it unless you have no other options because I paid very little for the unit and had little to lose . My unit was manufactered in July of 2004 . I also know their are different revisions to the Digital processor board but I don't remember off hand what the one in my unit was. Below is the picture of the mod. and I circled each resistor involved and a marking on on each resistor that I soldered the 1k resistor between these points. On the right most 1k resistor I had to kinda guess which resistors were involved because I couldn't quite tell because of the blurriness and lighting and the resistor itself obscured the picture. Now this mod worked for mine and I can't say for sure what it will do for anyone elses given there are different revision so don't blame me if you try it and it doesn't work or worse I would only try it as a last resort . This is not my board but some none else that posted this previouslythat had removed theirs. Unfortunately my camera doesn't have enough zoom for me to clearly show how I modded it. img_4925a.jpg | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2006 Jul 13 12:59 | ||||||
| Do you remember the reference designators ( example, R5111 ) for the resistors that you changed in the MV1 to 1000 ohms or were these resistors added to what was there already?
Also do you remember where the fix was posted? I have the schematic so it may be possible to explain why the fix worked. The DC3.9(+) only seems to go to the display board along with DC3.9(-) and +29V. Can you measure the voltage that is at location of R5307 and R5308. If you have a voltmeter, just poke it into the holes that were left when these parts were not loaded. It is a positive voltage relative to ground. | ||||||
| jethro12 posted 2006 Jul 13 14:50 | ||||||
Actually these resistors weren't actually on the unit that I had and were added later I guess to fix the problem I am assuming. I posted a picture above and showed the mod that was done which I followed . Someone on this board posted the picture of thier digital board and I just noticed that my board didn't have the resistors like his did and he measured them and said they were 1k resistors. I then remember reading elsewhere that there was a fix with 2 1k resistors so this looked like the fix . I am going to do the mod to my other unit in a week or so but right now all my units are assembled so I can't check the voltage for you at this time but I will when I mod it. I measured the resistance between both connections before adding the 1k resistors and it was basically an open circuit between both points on each . The original poster of the picture was "Emlsnws" in this thread if you look through it. | ||||||
| jethro12 posted 2006 Jul 13 16:25 | ||||||
It's most likely the caps especially if they are bulging on top from overheating but could also be something else but I would try the caps first. I have fixed other JVC models in which the caps had gone bad . You could check the secondary voltages to see if they are low where the bulging caps are . | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2006 Jul 13 18:47 | ||||||
| I worked with emlsnws quite a bit but do not remember his making this modification. He lowered a power supply voltage AL5.3, improved the heatsink contact to the LSI chip, and increased air flow to the entire unit by drilling holes if I recall correctly.
A search for that image file did result in any hits except for the one occurrence in your post assuming you did not rename it. It is pretty hard from the photo trying to see which points they are connecting together with those 1K resistors. It looks like the leftmost 1K is connected between a 100 ohm and a 1K resistor. The K1011 through K1013 are jumpers. It harder to tell with the rightmost 1K. Is it connected between two resistors labelled "101" ( it means 100 ohms )? There is a red dot over the top connection obscuring the last digit in the value. | ||||||
| jethro12 posted 2006 Jul 13 19:12 | ||||||
I had to find his posting again,it is on page 6 of this thread and posted on May 24,2005 I probably did change the picture name.He has three pics in his message. I think when he was modifying his case and fixing the thermal pad he mentioned that his Digital Board had those resistors and that they looked like a mod to him. His problem was the loading bug but as he mentioned he never had the green lines phenomenon which is probably why . I noticed that mine didn't have it . The rightmost 1k resistor is connected to the two (101) 100 ohm surface mount resistors. The resistors don't seem to have any id markings on the board for them that I could see . Maybe the schematics have the layout and the #'s ? | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2006 Jul 13 19:36 | ||||||
| I will look into it later tonight and get back to you. It is true, emlsnws never had the green lines. I misunderstood about how the change was made, that it was a factory fix not what emlsnws did.
P.S. I was actually asking 4fuksake to measure the voltage at the place where R5307 and 8 normally would be loaded. I would expect that without these resistors, the voltage at that point will be higher than normal, but I would be curious just how much higher it is for a PAL unit. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2006 Jul 14 02:51 | ||||||
| The manual does not have a layout drawing of the board and the board does not seem to have reference designators for the parts to which those 1k resistors are attached.
The good news is that the M10 uses the same p/n board ( LPA10236 ). I now have an M10 so I should be able to determine what JVC did. This M10 is said to have both the green lines and loading problem. The manufacture date is July/2004 so it should be the same vintage as your combo. I expect not to find those resistors but we shall see. [edit] Thanks for posting the date of emlsnws's photos. [edit] I now have the digital board out and it has the same p/n 10236-02 as emlsnws's but the two 1K resistors are not there. [edit] The purpose of the leftmost 1K resistor added by JVC seems unrelated to video. The DMN8652 processor has an output ( A0_MCLKO ) which goes through the 100 ohm resistor in the upper left of the picture. After the signal goes through the 100 ohm resistor, the 100 ohm is tied to the +3.3V power supply via the 1K resistor added by JVC. This signal is the clock signal for the 24 bit audio DAC. The DAC requires a minimum of +2.2 V for a high level. The added resistor appears to be just a pullup resistor to assure the +2.2V high level will be reached. To find out what the second 1K resistor does, I may have to unsolder the metal can from the board. The DMN8652 has a lot of 100 ohm resistors connected to it. I suspect those two 100 ohm resistors connected with the second 1K resistor relate to some other DMN8652 function. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2006 Jul 14 14:43 | ||||||
This will take a bit longer than expected. The board came out of the can readily enough but the DMN8652 does not have exposed pins to probe. I can see the pins by looking underneath the lip of the chip so I need to fabricate a little probe thin enough to to slip under it to see to which pins those 100 ohms are connected.
These images are not as sharp as emlsnws's because they are VGA resolution for posting to this forum. | ||||||
| jethro12 posted 2006 Jul 14 20:07 | ||||||
Yeah thats gonna be pretty tough to trace if it is under the chip unfortunately. Do the schematics have the pin functions so it can guide you ? I went to LSI's website to look for some info but they didn't have much other than a modular breakdown of what the different units within the chip did. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2006 Jul 14 23:43 | ||||||
| Yes, the schematic has all the pinouts but no description of what they do. I can deduce what they do via the name and by following them to what they control, drive, or the part from which they receive data.
Here is a sample which includes the output A0_MCLKO clock for the audio DAC with the 100 ohm resistor ( R1478 ) that is being pulled up to +3.3V. One side of the 1K resistor JVC added is +3.3V ( the side connected to the 1K chip resistor ) and the other is connected to the top of R1478 in the figure below, 
I am going to make a little wire probe so I can feed it under the lip of the LSI chip. I can see the pins pretty clearly. They are about 3/32" past the outer perimeter of the chip. I believe this is a 100 pin chip and I can count about 25 per side so they are not layered which would make it really difficult. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2006 Jul 15 14:30 | ||||||
I made a wire probe and was able to identify all the connections for the two 1K resistors added by JVC. Here is schematic of what they did,
These resistors are what we call "pullup resistors". Their purpose is the boost the output high voltage of both the clock signals from the DMN8652 chip. Most of the time the DMN8652 drive seems adequate but JVC must believe that under some circumstances the 27 MHz clock and audio clock signals will not have sufficient amplitude to drive the audio DAC, SDRAM, and their custom chip JSP8059. It is not uncommon for chips to have reduced output when they get hot. In this case, the DMN8652 drive must be a bit marginal when it gets hot. I plan to try JVC's fix on this M10. It does get green lines. The M10 is set up with no disk. I can be watching TV though the M10, suddenly green lines will appear and after awhile the "loading" message appears. I think we are close to identifying most of the sources of the famous "loading" problem including why US units are more affected than PAL units. | ||||||
| jethro12 posted 2006 Jul 15 18:58 | ||||||
| Great job tracing the connections. Yeah it looks like the second 1k resistor is more of the fix to the green lines. Is pin 86 the Video Output Clk signal and are you saying that this was maybe low and then the 5v boosted the signal to the proper level?
Let me know how it works out after you apply the the mod. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2006 Jul 16 01:33 | ||||||
| Yes, there is a separate clock chip that generates the 27 MHz that goes to pin 2 of the DMN8652. The DMN8652 redistributes it. Pin 86 sends it back out to pin 85, the JSP8059 custom chip, and a SDRAM chip. The clock is typically a square wave with a high and low level. Adding a resistor like that is often done if the high level is marginal.
Adding those resistors is not childs play. Those 100 ohm chip resistors are very small. It is easy to remove one accidently, which I did, but it is now back in place. The M10 is reasembled with the JVC fix and being tested now. Here is a photo of the thermal pad that can cause overheating problems for the DMN8652 chip. It is circled in red. The tabs circled in green have shoulders that limit how far down into the sheet metal box the pc board can be inserted. Mig-45 found a small gap between the thermal pad and the metal cover in his M10. To do a good job of conducting heat away from the DMN8652, the pad must be in close contact with the chip and metal cover otherwise temperatures can be reached that are near the maximum allowed operating temperature for the part. I believe his solution was to use a thicker pad but it was too late. The high temperatures to which the chip had been subjected for an extended period did permanent damage.  | ||||||
| jethro12 posted 2006 Jul 16 11:44 | ||||||
Is there a reason why the signal input back into pin 85 ? I replaced both the thermal pads on the units I had because neither looked to be making contact because I saw no impressions on when I removed it so I put a little thicker pad into them but it really did'nt seem to help them. I also have a Dr-MV5S which is supposed to be the second generation of the DR-Mv1s. I disassembled that unit to see how they changed . They have a new version of the LSi chip and the shield looks to be made out of a different metal,not shiny. They also have the board upside down and the LSI chip has no contact with the dimple on the can what so ever or a thermal pad. I am not sure why they designed it like that. Don't you think their should be some type of heat sink on these chips to dissapate the heat away from the chip? I have noticed a number of these units coming up with a common problem with either no sound or picture and their front display going out which I think could be linked to the LSI chip. I know what you mean about being careful about putting the resistors on. I did mine under a magnifier and turned the heat low on my iron so I ddin't have to much trouble but I have had alot of soldering practice and learned from past mistakes. I did remove one of them somehow removing the can which I later found stuck to my solder wick. Well hopefully that fixes the green line problem on your unit too . My unit was developing them within a 1 hour or 2 of use and it seemed to fix it up. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2006 Jul 17 01:17 | ||||||
| The reason the clock goes in pin 2, out pin 86 and back into pin 85 is not uncommon. The two clock inputs are probably for difference types of clock. My guess is that the pin 2 clock input is for an analog, sinewave clock. This type of clock is often specified as being able to deliver a certain amount of power to a given load like 50 ohms. The DMN8652 probably converts the analog clock input to digital clock levels at the pin 86 output. Digital outputs are specified as having a maximum low level ( representing a "0" ) and a minimum high level ( representing a "1" ). For example, +0.7V might be the max. low level and +2.5V the minimum high level. Some systems will have a clock with a digital output so they do not need to use pin 2 or 86 but can go directly into pin 85.
I am very surprised that the LSI chip in the MV5 does not have any heatsinking. Do you have any way of measuring the temperature or even putting your finger on it to see if it is getting very hot? I tested the temperature of the M10 LSI chip while mounted in the housing with the thermal pad and the housing temperature was 58 degrees C. today. The ambient was 27 degrees C. My mistake with the chip resistors was not using an X-Acto knife to scrape the plated ends a bit to clear off any contaminants so solder would adhere quickly. I did that with the second resistor and it went smoothly. The M10 has been operating continuously now for about 24 hours without either green lines or loading appearing. When the unit first came in, it worked for more than a day before either appeared so I will wait for awhile longer to see if it they are really gone. [edit] I checked the required input levels for the SDRAM chip. They are max. low level = 0.8V and minimum high level = 2.0V. The SDRAM clock line has a 470 ohm resistor in series with it where the JSP8059 AD/DAC chip does not. That would appear to mean the JSP8059 requires the higher drive level from the DMN8652. The JSP8059 has a 16 bit output which goes to the SDRAM. This might explain why the lines appear. For example, if the JSP8059 loses clock cycles, the 16 data lines to the SDRAM will not change. The SDRAM will clock in the same fixed data during the time the JSP misses clock cycles resulting in fixed sequentially data which when clocked out looks like a line or partial line. | ||||||
| jethro12 posted 2006 Jul 17 22:58 | ||||||
No I don't have anyway to measure it . I was thinking about putting a heat sink to draw the heat away from it somehow. I notice on all the LSI Domino chips they have the top metal slug meant for that purpose. Almost seems like a blatant way to cause an early failer of the unit. Panasonic has a hink sinking on theirs as does even the Apex recorder that I have which uses the LSI chip .
What is the job of the JSP8059 ?
That sounds like a good explanation . Whats kinda strange is the way it slowly appears and then unplugging it for a few minutes would restore functionality for a bit of time.but maybe like you said when it reaches a certain temp. its output goes down enough to start causing problems. | ||||||
| jethro12 posted 2006 Jul 18 00:07 | ||||||
| trhouse, I noticed when I did a search for the Panasonic DMR-ES35V you have gotten your hands on one of these already and was wondering what you thought of the quality of the recordings against these JVC units ? I just grabbed one of these off Ebay for pretty cheap without a remote and haven't really been able to test it out until I get a remote. Whats nice is they record on just about all media +-r/rw and DVD-RAM and DL +-R . The only thing I found disappointing reading the manual is that you have to close the first layer of the DL disks before you can use the second. I noticed that they have their own proprietary drive in the unit it looks like which could be good or bad. Their regular combo
units have lousy reliability in their DVD drive which I have used. Also do you know of any recorders that have a digital zoom ? | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2006 Jul 18 02:06 | ||||||
Is it possible that it had a heatsink and someone removed it? I would heatsink it if it were my unit and I intended to keep it. The LSI processor is the heart of the unit and expensive. A heatsink is very cheap insurance. The other possibility is that the chip uses different technology and does not get hot. For example, the processor in the Panasonic ES10 has no heatsink but it only feels slightly warm if you touch it. The DMN8652 and the processor in the ES35V get very hot by comparison and really need heatsinking.
Here is the block diagram with the JSP8059. It is IC1001 described as the video controller. 
Here is part of the detailed schematic with this part. Hope this is not too confusing. I traced the path of the 27 MHz clock from the DMN8652 in green. There appear to be some resistors in the path to the JSP8059 but the values are zero ohms. I was not sure how legible those values might be. The top chip is the SDRAM which has a 470 ohm resistor in series with the 27 MHz clock. 
I really cannot say yet. I do not own either of these recorders. A relative loaned me the ES35V because I am doing a big family project and from nearly the beginning the relatives were given samples of recordings made by various machines. By a simple majority, most preferred the Panasonic captures so I have been using them to create about 800 disks. I have had no failures with the ES10, ES30V, or the ES35V. The closing required for the first layer with the ES35V is certainly a setback if you want to record seamlessly across the layer change, but it allows me to put a number of clips on one side, close, and add clips to the next side thus avoiding the layer change altogether. No recorder I am aware of can do a seamless layer change. For that I use the computer. I have always been curious about the "loading" problem in the JVC partly because when I asked JVC directly what should be done if you wanted to fix one yourself, they would not answer. A friend shipped me this M10 because he is out of the country at the moment and he said it had both green lines and the loading problem. Since I received the unit I have not made any test recordings with it to compare against other recorders. It worked quite well when it arrived for more than a day with no sign of either problem, so I was setting it up to do a series of tests when the famous "loading" bug suddenly appeared. After that happened, I have been trying to locate the cause since it was recurring fairly reliably. It is not easy to troubleshoot because if you unplug it for safety reasons to pull a board out and start it back up again, the bug will decide not to appear for awhile as you well know. The M10 has been running continuously for 48 hours now and still no sign of either problem. I unplugged it after 24 hours and changed to "power save mode" for the last 24 hours. [edit] Almost forgot. The Sony RDR-GX315 I tested has digital zoom. It is the only brand I have tested with that feature.  | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2006 Jul 19 02:39 | ||||||
| Here is what I presently believe is the cause of the famous loading problem in the M10. Some of these comments only apply to US versions of the M10. I have found that PAL versions do not contain these parts and neither does the MV1.
In examining the the power supply of this M10 which had both the green line and loading problem, I found these two resistors circled in red below, 
Even though Mig-45 did temperature testing, he never mentioned them so that is why I asked 4fuksake if his PAL unit had them. He said no. As you can see from the temperature probe held against one of these resistors ( they are R5307 and R5308 ) these resistors are extremely hot at 94 degrees C. I thought these must be the two bad resistors we have heard about because they are two watt resistors dissipating only 0.37 watt. They are 390 ohms with about +12VDC across them. To test them, I removed them from the M10 and used an HP6205B power supply and applied the same +12VDC accross them. 
In this test, the resistors only reached a temperature of 62 degrees C. I put the resistors back in the M10. Then with the temperature probe not touching but about 1/4" away from the resistors measured the air temperature. The air temperature was about 50 degrees C. even though the external ambient temperature was 23 degrees C. and the fan was operating. What was found is that the row of vertically mounted electrolytic capacitors indicated in green effectively block the forced air from the fan ( indicated by the thick blue arrow ) to these parts. The air temperature measured with the probe an inch above the tallest capacitor was 30 degrees C. It is the 50 degree temperature of the air around these resistors which causes them to operate at 94 degrees C. Most resistors can survive these temperatures ( with lowered reliability ) but the electrolytic capacitors surrounding these parts are only rated for a maximum operating temperature of 105 degrees C. These resistors essentially act little heating elements which are always on as long as the M10 is plugged in. The temperature of these resistors was measured with the unit on ( 94 degrees C. ), off but not powersave mode ( 80 degrees C. ) and powersave mode ( 60 degrees C ). The explanation for this variation is that the +12VDC is not a regulated voltage. It goes up and down depending on how much current is drawn from the regulated +5V. The more current is drawn from the +5V, the higher the +12V on these resistors. I asked 4fuksake if he could measure the voltage at the location of these resistors in his PAL unit because when I removed them, the +12VDC jumped to almost +13VDC. I am not sure if that would have a detrimental effect on PAL units. Here is how heat affects electrolytic capacitors
The loading problem is caused indirectly by these parts and can affect PAL and NTSC units. The fundamental problem is that the clock levels to the audio DAC and video controller are marginal from the DMN8652. The system controller apparently can recognize conditions when the clocks levels are failing. If the clock to the video controller becomes inadequate, the green lines can appear before the loading error, but if the clock to the audio DAC becomes inadequate, I think the loading error can occur without green lines. If green lines occur solely because of clocking problems there will not be increased macroblocks. If another condition occurs such as experienced by Mig-45 in which green lines and severe macroblocks occurs, this seems to indicate the LSI encoder is overheating as only the encoder can generate macroblocks. Overheating of most chips will result in lowered output voltage levels which can then cause the appearance of lines. How does the power supply create the loading problem and why would this be more prevalent in US units? I believe the answer is that all electronic components age including power supply parts. This causes the power supply voltages to change a bit over time. US units have these two very hot resistors which prematurely age the electrolytic capacitors which act as filter capacitors at the output of many of the DC voltages in the unit. I believe it is the changes in these voltages that alter the conditions between the DMN8652 and the other chips causing clocking errors which trigger the loading condition. So all units are susceptible but US units are more so. The M10 I have been testing has now been operating continuously for 72 hours with no green lines or loading. I plan to test for at least 168 hours. The fix was the JVC factory modification of adding two 1K resistors to the digital board which boosts the output levels of the audio/video clocks from the DMN8652. | ||||||
| lordsmurf posted 2006 Jul 19 05:09 | ||||||
| And the interior of the JVC DR-M100S is entirely different from the previous models, and that would explain why it is not susceptible to the loading problem.
Nicely done trhouse. :) | ||||||
| jethro12 posted 2006 Jul 19 19:35 | ||||||
| Glad to see the resistors look to have eliminated the green lines from your unit as well. . I do belieive like you said that the the electrolytics in the P.S are partly to blame since in standy by the temperature around them really goes up with the fan not on. What I did was to find another source to drive the transistor for the fan so it to comes on when it is in standby and when its on but have it off in power save mode.The increased noise isn't that bothersome for me. I think the main power draw in stand by is the LSI chip,maybe you can confirm this . I know the top of the metal container which contain the LSI chip gets really hot in stand by. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2006 Jul 20 04:48 | ||||||
| Thank you both for your comments.
It occured to me that if the MV5 does not have a heatsink on the LSI chip that might mean the M100 also does not since they are the same generation. Do you know which chip is in the MV5 or M100? The DMN8652 is the chip that consumes the most power in the off, non powersave mode because it has four power supplies, +1.8V, +2.5V, +3.3V, and +5V, and does get hot, but the assembly consuming the most power is the power supply. The reason for this is that aside from the +5V switching supply which is very efficient, all the other other regulated voltages like the +1.8V are produced by linear regulators which are not very efficient. For example, suppose the +1.8V is derived by regulating down the +5V and suppose the LSI draws 1A from the +1.8V supply. The regulator consumes roughly ( 5v minus 1.8v times 1A ) 3.2 watts and the LSI only 1.8 watts ( 1.8v times 1A ). 96 hours and the M10 is still going. I kept a record of how it entered the green lines and loading states. While watching TV, lines would start a few at a time, get worse, and eventually the loading message would appear. It was also fairly common for the loading message to appear just by having the dvd tray open. None of these conditions have reappeared. I am actually doing a cycle of 23 hours on, one hour off, non power save mode, 23 hours on, one hour off in powersave mode, and repeat. | ||||||
| markatisu posted 2006 Jul 20 09:18 | ||||||
| That is great work! I have yet to get mine fixed by JVC because the closest service center is 2 states away and I dont have the money to ship it as opposed to just unplugging it after I do my usual 6 hours of records.
But my father in law ran a tv/vcr/electronics repair shop for over a decade and has agreed to help me do what you showed above, worst comes to worst I just put back in the old resistors and tell JVC it does not work 8) Thanks again for your findings! | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2006 Jul 22 00:45 | ||||||
| Good luck with the two resistors. They cost me $.11 for both with tax.
The temperatures here soared to 90 degrees F. today but after 120 hours of continuous operation with one hour off every 24 hours, it is still good. If it passes 48 more hours, the owner owes me a nice dinner. | ||||||
| Marvingj posted 2006 Jul 23 13:12 | ||||||
| I Never had a Problem with my DRM-10 but the Loading Bug finally hit my machine, it won't go off. Even Cut power. Had to Email JVC for help. I don't think its still under warranty. So I might get screwed!! Great information on this post but nothing to aid me. It has it be in the power supply or microprocessor. I love the DRM-10 its still a great machine but those chinese parts are a killer. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2006 Jul 23 14:12 | ||||||
| I thought the "loading" bug is not considered a warranty repair but more of a recall in the US for a known defect. When you email or talk to JVC, you might want to mention that it is discussed on their web site in the faq's that the repair is to be free.
Is there a reason you think your loading bug is unique or did you mean you prefer not to open the box? | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2006 Jul 23 15:47 | ||||||
| Here is one solution to cooling R5307 and R5308. I replaced the 390 ohm, 2 watt resistors that came with the unit with these larger ones which are still 2 watt. The advantage is that the larger surface area of the resistors allows them to get rid of heat faster.
The resistors are mounted on wire leads covered with heatshrink tubing. The tubing is not shrunk in the photo to make it more visible. The wire leads are long enough so the resistors are above the tallest capacitor and in the path of the forced air from the fan. Their body temperature is now about 60 degrees C. instead of 94. Even when the fan is off, the heat generated by the resistors remains mostly above the capacitors to prevent heating these parts.  | ||||||
| Marvingj posted 2006 Jul 23 19:43 | ||||||
| Trhouse, I don't think my Loading Bug is unique. It just happen very weird. I play a movie 16 Blocks. When to pop some popcorn can back Loading Bug Blinking. Very Odd, Got the Movie out By opening Casting etc. I did try thr Freeze spray( didn't work). The DRM-10 gave me good service until then. I hope JVC will fix or replace it that would be a great gift. But they probably charge like $100 day and hour to fix it..I prbably will have to get another, this time extended warranty? Thanks | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2006 Jul 23 20:30 | ||||||
| Marvingj,
The loading bug was identified in my July 19th post as being caused by marginal clock levels between the DMN8652 processor and support chips. The solution was to add two 1K pullup resistors to the digital assembly. It appears to be the factory solution. There is a photo of the fix in jethro12's post of May 12th. The photo was originally posted by enlsnws. At the time, enlswns was suffering from overheating of the LSI processor. No one realized that his photo contained the factory fix for the loading bug until jethro12 mentioned it again. I was able to determine what those resistors were for with the help of the manuals supplied by enlswns and Mig-45. I used this fix on an M10S with both green lines and the loading bug. The unit has been on continously now for about 160 hours. Neither problem has recurred. I am testing for 168 hours ( seven days ). [edit]My July 15th post shows a schematic of what those factory added resistors do. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2006 Jul 24 03:41 | ||||||
| The testing of the M10S is now complete. 168 hours of 23 hours on with 1 hour off in either powersave or non powersave modes for seven days. The green lines and loading message never appeared again. The last two days the temperatures in the room reached 90 degrees F. and the unit remained solid.
Thanks to Mig-45 and enlsnws for the many discussions and manuals. Thanks to Lordsmurf regarding resistors and jethro12 for pointing out the factory solution in the image posted by emlsnws. All these contributions eventually led to uncovering the loading bug which turned out to be marginal clcck levels between the DMN8652 processor and peripheral chips aggravated by voltage drift due to premature aging of filter capacitors in the power supply caused by two resistors getting too hot from blocked air flow ( these two resistors are only in US units but not PAL units or MV1's ). A nice puzzle it was. | ||||||
| Marvingj posted 2006 Jul 24 08:10 | ||||||
| THANKS TRHOUSE, I WILL TRY THAT. | ||||||
| shakur96 posted 2006 Jul 30 06:16 | ||||||
| Hi Guys,
My DR-MV1 (which is out of warranty) developed the loading fault a few months back. Rather than bin it or flog it for next to nothing (cause I have not much diy skills) I put it in the spare room and have been using it successfully with power save mode on.......Until the other day when whilst recording to a DVD-R (with a brand I never used before) it went into the loading cylce. Only when i unplugged and turned it back on the loading appears briefly before all lights go out only and then unlike usual I am unable to turn it on. None of the buttons react. It simply flashes for a minute then goes off. Is it dead or can I boot it back up somehow? any advice would be great. | ||||||
| Marvingj posted 2006 Aug 17 17:19 | ||||||
| Instead of fixing myself I sent it to JVC, they fix the loading bug & gave my a new drive. JVC is still kind to the Customers. My DRM-10 works like a charm. What a Great Day! | ||||||
| dobby posted 2006 Sep 20 05:00 | ||||||
| Hi All,
thanks to the info gained in this forum I've managed to get a new DR-M10 from JVC UK. After I got the "Loading" error, the customer service was initially very poor (no response to voicemails, poor information etc) but I persisted. I was told that JVC UK is a different company the JVC US and that they haven't accepted an inherant manufacturing fault with earlier models. They also tried to shift responsibility onto my seller as I purchased the unit off EBay. However, I quoted the info here and finally got in touch with the british manager ( Kris James, tel 0208 4503282 then # then 2 then 5263, Fax 0208 2087655) who agreed on a replacement as a guesture of goodwill. thanks all for your help! | ||||||
| sam2142 posted 2006 Sep 27 05:43 | ||||||
| Hi all I have just finished reading all 15 pages and wow what a quest it has been. Many thanks to all that have spent hours trying to fix the problem with players / recorders
So now here is a new one. Does the mods apply to: DR-MH50S - dates of dvd drive march 2005 serial: 080B0459 unit is PAL. Made in germany DR-MX1S - dates of dvd drive march 2005 serial: 080B0165 unit is PAL. Made in germany The dsp board is different to that of the pics shown but the are no resistor mods and the area where the mod is to be done is the same (see pics) For both the recorders the problem is once the pulg is turned on the loading flashes on the LCD on the player, no output to the TV screen. I will post in a bit all pics of psu + digi board. Any help will be much welcome + i have a good eng background so have no probs with the tech terms :-) Sam Added pics: 
 | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2006 Sep 27 13:34 | ||||||
| I am doubtful that your loading problem is related to the famous one with the M10S. The power supply board in your units looks different and the digital board assembly is LPB10247 vs LPA10236 for the M10S board. The digital board also looks like it has been redesigned.
The problem is that the loading flashing covers a multitude of ills including bad media so this question may related to an entirely different issue. P.S. Nice photos. | ||||||
| sam2142 posted 2006 Sep 27 16:58 | ||||||
| Many thanks for the reply trhouse. I thought as much once I had seen the boards myself but posted on the off chance that I may have missed something
Well as media goes, the DVD drives are empty so no read errors there. However the HDD could be at fault. Since this was the main suspect I connected it to windows via an external USB case and found the file system is not a windows type i.e. Fat or NTFS etc... So then I guess they have their own version. But looking at the HDD it looks like a normal drive hence would it be possible to replace the drive with a PC type one and have the player format it? Or would it be a case of doing the prep work before installation is the golden question I guess. If anyone else can point me in the right direction I would be grateful Thanks in advance Sam | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2006 Sep 28 04:27 | ||||||
| I upgraded the hard drive in my Pioneer 531H from 80 GB to 500 GB. There is a thread about how to do it. One important item is that the Pioneer service manual describes how to replace the hard drive. The JVC manual might do that too.
Were you able to see the drive in the external USB case? I plugged my old 80 GB hard drive from the Pioneer into my computer and it did not see it, but with a program called sectedit, I could see and read the sectors on the drive in Windows. Here is a link to sectedit, http://www.roadkil.net/Sectedit.html It appears that Pioneer uses a version of Unix for the operating system. I suspect JVC might also since Unix is very stable. With the Pioneer, replacing the hdd is pretty involved because they have the TV Guide and timer functions residing on the hdd. They also have a CPRM ID number assigned to the hdd. If the hdd is unplugged from the recorder that information is lost and has to be re-entered using a special service remote. As soon as I removed the 80 GB hdd and plugged it back it, the display said HDD ERR until I reprogrammed it with the service remote. [edit] Here is a thread in which Tangerine replaced his JVC hard drive. It sounds easier than the Pioneer, http://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=308371 | ||||||
| psmedley posted 2006 Oct 03 07:44 | ||||||
Hi Guys! Does anyone have suggestions for fixing the LOADING problem on an Australian PAL version of the M10S? Mine has suddenly started going into LOADING flashing within a couple of minutes of doing anything disc related - ie formatting a disc, playing a disc. The unit does feel warm on top even after only a couple of minutes of being powered up. I haven't yet opened it up to look at the resistors, capacitors that have been mentioned as suspect - am a little confused about what's relevant to a PAL model compared with an NTSC model??!?? Thanks in advance, Paul. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2006 Oct 03 11:59 | ||||||
| The fix to the digital board applies to your version. This is a factory fix first identified in a UK PAL unit. US versions are more susceptible than PAL versions due to power supply resistors that run very hot. PAL versions do not have those parts.
If you do not want to try this yourself, call JVC support in Australia and see if they will repair this problem out of warranty. They will in the US. I know a person who just sent a unit manufactured in 2004 in to a service center and it was repaired for free. | ||||||
| psmedley posted 2006 Oct 04 04:28 | ||||||
OK so this is the addition of 2x 1k resistors? I did contact JVC Australia - after 2 weeks they replied that if I took the unit in to their service agent - they would consider how they could help based on the assessment - ie I could be up for $$$ just for the review and they still might not help. For the costs of a couple of resistors I"m willing to give it a crack - I'm pretty handy with a soldering iron :) Thanks again, Paul. | ||||||
| mgy999a posted 2006 Oct 04 09:04 | ||||||
Ah, no, not necessarily. The 1K resistors are really for the green line problem. I have the NTSC version that went in for repair over a year ago for both green lines and the loading problem. JVC added the 1K resistors and also replaced the power supply capacitors, upgraded to larger sizes with higher voltage ratings. The recorder is again giving me a loading problem (no green lines), but this time it is strickly due to the power supply. I will be submitting a more detailed post in a few days explaining what I found. The short version is that a power supply capacitor failed (one of the JVC replacements). Does your unit also have the green line problem? If so, then yes, you will need to add the 1K resistors. If your unit has only the loading problem, then the power supply is probably the culprit. MGY | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2006 Oct 04 12:30 | ||||||
| The "loading" problem can cover a multitude of ills but the two resistors do cover a case where there are no green lines but the loading problem still occurs.
The two resistors are for two separate issues. One is to increase the video clock level. If this level is low, there can be green lines. The second is for low audio clock levels. If this is the problem then there will be no green lines. Green lines are created by missing clocks which present the same data to the memory chips repeatedly. One way to tell if the problem is likely to be solved by the additional resistors is does your unit intermittently work ok such as after unplugging it? If it does then it is a good candidate because the problem with the clock levels is that they are marginal not that they are failed so it shows this intermittent behavior. [edit]As noted above, US units are likely to show more power supply capacitor problems due to the two resistors on the power supply board operating at 94 degrees C. The electrolytics are only rated for 100 degree C operating temperature but PAL units do not have these. | ||||||
| psmedley posted 2006 Oct 04 12:46 | ||||||
I opened up my unit this evening - appears my digital board already has the two resistors added to it..... | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2006 Oct 04 12:55 | ||||||
| The person who had a "loading" problem and had the resistors in his unit already in the UK found that the thermal pad to the LSI processor on the digital board was not making contact with the metal can which acts as a heatsink. This caused the LSI part to overheat.
This can be fatal for the LSI processor so I would check that next. After that I would look at the power supply especially the electrolytic capacitors for any signs of bulging or leakage. The capacitors have little lines scored in the tops to let out gases so they do not explode if they overheat. Sometimes a brown liquid will ooze out of the top when they go bad. | ||||||
| mgy999a posted 2006 Oct 04 21:07 | ||||||
| To trhouse:
First and foremost, I don’t want to start an argument, especially when it is obvious that you have more experience with the DR-M10 problem than I have and most especially when I agree with everything you have said. By the way, I very much applaud your posts in this thread; truly excellent research. Thank you. TO everyone else: My DR-M10 was made in Japan, May of 2004. I sent it in over a year ago for the green line/loading problem. It worked fine after that until two weeks ago. Since it is now out of warranty, I opened up the unit and took a look. This is my power supply board: 
Note the heat damage in the areas circled in white. Trhouse is correct in that the two power resistors in the NTSC model (R5307 & R5308, circled in red) do generate quite a bit of heat. Power = (12 volt)2 / 390 ohm = 0.369 watts (in each resistor) But the RK34 Schottky diodes and the zener diodes also generate quite a bit as well: Schottky Power = 0.5 Amp (average) X 0.6 volts (forward drop) = 0.3 watts Zener Power = 12 volt X 0.025 amps = 0.3 watts And there are a lot more of them on the board. Some of the worst heat damage on my board is associated with the diodes. If the PAL units have a power supply anything like this, then heat can still be a problem, even without resistors R5307 & R5308. Trhouse is correct about the capacitors. If you see leakage or a bulge on top, then it is probably blown. However, the capacitor CAN go bad without any bulge or leakage showing at all. Note the capacitor circled in yellow. It is hard to tell in the photo but this one has a very small bulge on top. So small that I missed it until I was checking the voltages in that part of the circuit and discovered that they were much lower than they should have been. Also please note that my unit did not die suddenly. When I first saw the loading problem two weeks ago, I unplugged it for two hours, plugged it back in and everything worked fine – for a few hours. And then the loading problem came back. I repeated this process three times – with decreasing effect each time. So it is possible (though not likely, I admit) for a bad capacitor to produce a similar effect to a low clock line. So, if you check your board, the first thing to do is closely examine the capacitors, especially C5202, C5203, C5204, C5207, C5208 and C5209 for damage. Then check the diodes in-circuit. All of them. A good DVM will allow you to do that without unsoldering the diode. Check output voltages. I honestly don’t know what the configuration of the PAL unit looks like but in the NTSC version pin 2 of IC5302 should be 1.8 to 2.0 vdc. At connector CN5101 there should be -29 vdc at pin 3, -12 vdc at pin 4, +12 vdc at pin 6, +5 vdc at pin 11, +5.3 vdc at pin 12, +3.3 vdc at pin 17 and +48 vdc at pin 19. If any of these voltages are low, then you have a power supply problem. Assuming that one or more voltages are low, unsolder and pull the capacitors. If one of them is bad, be careful what you replace it with. If possible, use a capacitor with a higher voltage rating. And in this power supply, don’t use one unless it is rated for 105 degC. There are 3 main weaknesses in this power supply design: 1. With the exception of IC5302, most of the heat generating components are all tightly packed together. Not good. 2. The large filter capacitors, transformers and such block the air flow from the ventilation fan at the rear of the unit. 3. The ventilation fan does not operate with the unit turned “off” even though the power supply is still operating. (I verified this after repairing the unit.) Thus the unit can cook itself in its own heat when you think it is turned off! Also note, that just because JVC may have “fixed” your unit once doesn’t mean the loading problem won’t come back. Bottom line: Please be careful where you put this recorder. It needs as much ventilation as you can give it. I hope this helps. MGY999a[/img] | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2006 Oct 05 00:11 | ||||||
| mgy999a,
No offense taken. I applaud anyone's efforts to work on these problems and I do not claim to know all the answers. That is why I prefaced an earlier remark with "the loading problem can cover a multitude of ills" some of which we may not be aware. I recently had the pleasure of working with "Corona" on extracting the TV Guide and timer functions from my Pioneer hard drive recorder so that the code could be archived for anyone to download should it become corrupted or the hdd should fail and need to be replaced. I have never met "Corona" but I see that the fruit of our efforts, that download file and his instructions, has been downloaded by 150 people so it must be helping someone. That is enough reward for me. | ||||||
| psmedley posted 2006 Oct 05 05:20 | ||||||
Good call. I opened up the unit again this evening, both C5203 & C5208 (both 2200 uF, 10V capacitors) have a slight bulge on top of them. I saw earlier mention of using higher voltage capacitors - what do people suggest? Cheers, Paul. | ||||||
| mgy999a posted 2006 Oct 05 08:52 | ||||||
| psmedley,
For your capacitor replacements, I suggest 16V radials. They are available in the same diameter package as the 10V version, just slightly taller. The next step up is 25V and those are larger in diameter, which probably won't fit (though I confess I haven't tried one). Also, two temperature ratings are common for capacitors: 85 degC and 105 degC. Be sure and use the higher rating. One thing I forgot to mention, do be careful working around switching power supplies. Some of them can store high voltages in the input capacitors, even when the device is unplugged. Good luck, mgy999a | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2006 Oct 05 14:03 | ||||||
| C5203 is the first of two ( the other is C5205 ) capacitors that filter the DC voltage that goes to the regulator, PQ5EV3, which provides a regulated +1.8V labelled D1.8V to the LSI chip.
C5208 is the first of two ( the other is C5308 ) capacitors that filter the voltage labelled DV5V that is only used by the dvd drive. It is also regulated down to provide a +3.3V to the dvd drive for US units but is not used on dvd drives of European units. | ||||||
| psmedley posted 2006 Oct 06 06:00 | ||||||
Hi mgy999a!
OK i bought some 2200 uF 16v radials today - a whopping $A 0.90 each. These caps are rather smaller than the current caps (physically) - same diameter but I would say its 10mm shorter than the only other 2200uF 16V cap on the board (ie C5204). I guess this doesn't matter so long as the uF ratings match.... size isn't everything :) The only other thing is that the caps I bought have a +/- 20% rating on them - is this good enough? These were the only 2200 uF caps my local store had so I didn't have a whole lot of choice. They are Hitano brand just out of interest. Thanks for all the help - will try find the soldering iron in the morning - already have the power board out of the player. Cheers, Paul. | ||||||
| mgy999a posted 2006 Oct 06 09:01 | ||||||
Yes, the +/- 20% rating is standard for aluminum electrolytic capacitors. The advantages of aluminum electrolytic capacitors are high capacitance to size ratio and they are very cheap to manufacture. Disadvantages are loose tolerance, poor performance at low temperatures, and high internal resistance and inductance (which means that they don't do very well at high frequencies). But they do a pretty good job as a filter capacitor in power supplies. Your new capacitors should do the job. :D A word of caution. These capacitors are polarized (one side positive, the other negative) and it is very easy to put one in backwards. Bad things happen when one is installed backwards. When you plug in the power supply, the backwards capacitor will likely explode rather violently, causing collateral damage to nearby components. The capacitor will have a broad colored stripe on one side, identiying that lead as the negative terminal. Check polarity when you remove the old capacitors. If there is any question, the pc board is marked on the bottom side with a small "+" sign to identify the positive terminal. Check it three times when you install it and when you are sure you have it right, check it again. May I suggest that you take a second look at where you keep your recorder? Is it in a well ventilated location? Mine wasn't. Now that it is out of warranty, I am thinking of adding a small dc brushless ventilation fan inside the unit to help with the heat load. 8) mgy999a | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2006 Oct 06 13:27 | ||||||
| Here is a link to the Hitano page on their electrolytic capacitors. Do you notice the Life(Hours)?
http://www.hitano.com.tw/electrolytic.html 1,000 hours is only about 42 days if the unit is plugged in all the time. I hope this is a misprint or these parts are not really intended for products that apply voltage to them 24 hours a day. | ||||||
| mgy999a posted 2006 Oct 06 14:15 | ||||||
Good catch. I missed that. Capacitors are rated in terms of hours of life expectancy at rated temperatures. A thousand hours seems rather short but understand that life expectancy doubles with every 10 degC drop in operating temperature. It now becomes more obvious why ventilation of this recorder is so important. Also note, that it is difficult to find an aluminum electrolytic capacitor rated for more than 5000 hours at 105 degC. That is due to the nature of the device, which evaporate internally with time, temperature and voltage. When they are dry, they die. I am confused about the Hitano specs. If I read the chart correctly, I hope that psmedley purchased EHR series capacitors. This is a radial, general purpose, high temp version, available up to 10,000 uF and rated for 2000 hours. If he bought the ECR version, then the life expectancy will be short indeed, since that is only rated to 85 degC. I know he didn't buy the ENR, E5R or EMR versions, since they are not available in 2200 uF. However, you make a very valid point. Since we know that this power supply runs hot, the longer the life expectancy of the capacitor, the better. Thanks mgy999a | ||||||
| psmedley posted 2006 Oct 06 22:14 | ||||||
The Hitano caps I bought are definitely 105°C rated - so much have at least a 2000 hr life. It looks like the old caps were CapXon GL series - spec sheet at http://www.capxon.com.tw/product_pdf/GL.pdf - these look like they are designed to have a 6000 hr life. These were the only caps my local electronics store had so if these fail - I'll try find longer life one's next time. Thanks again, Paul. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2006 Oct 07 04:33 | ||||||
| Your link to capxon reminded me of something else. It is the "low impedance" Hitano capacitors that you want to use if they are available. This means the EXR or ESX capacitors. The model for an electrolytic capacitor is that they look like a capacitor in series with some resistance and inductance. The "low impedance" versions minimize the inductance part. This is important because switching power supplies operate at frequencies typically between 50 KHz and 250 KHz. When the manufacturer says "low impedance", they mean that the capacitor will look like a short circuit to these frequencies. The other capacitors will not perform as well.
JVC does know how to select the right kind of capacitor for this application although a higher voltage part is even better as mgy999a suggested. | ||||||
| psmedley posted 2006 Oct 07 05:22 | ||||||
I did end up with 16V caps. These were the _only_ 2200 uF caps I could buy - but if the unit fails again for the same fault - I'll try find better quality caps from a different electronics store. Thanks again for all you help! Paul. | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2006 Oct 16 18:00 | ||||||
| Hi all,
I've been away from the forum for a good long time now, have got married and have a bairn too. A private email has caused me to come back and look at this topic. Loads of progress has been made -- top work. Mr trhouse is due some credit. You know your stuff and your reasoned thinking is admirable! I saw my name appear once or twice, and am pleased also to have been of help. Apologies to markatisu, I must have missed the PM notification email but have just read your July message. If you need anything now, do let me know again. For the record, my DRMV1 unit is still going strong, it is powered 24/7 but only gets out of standby mode occasionally. I guess that is a good sign that my modifications [some with the angle grinder and drill...] were productive. I'll keep a weather eye on the forum now, and hopefully notification emails won't get buried! Simon. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2006 Oct 18 12:29 | ||||||
| Hi emlsnws,
Welcome back! This was quite a "whodunit". We all owe you thanks for posting that photo with the factory added resistors. I went back to your post and found that you were thinking about discovering the purpose of those resistors yourself. At the time, all of us missed their significance. I now have a second M10S sent to me to test this fix. It is now undergoing a 168 hour ( seven days of continuous on ) test. I am on a business trip at the moment so will finish up the test probably this weekend. My only regret is that we were unable to help Mig-45. His unit was fixed by the factory. You have a barn? It sounds like you are out in the countryside. | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2006 Oct 18 16:55 | ||||||
| Hi trhouse,
Nope, a bairn is an old northern English / Scottish word for baby. Just over three weeks old, so you can see how there's been lots to keep me away. I'm not Scottish, but we like to use different words now and then! Simon. | ||||||
| jethro12 posted 2006 Oct 18 19:43 | ||||||
The PS seems to be a weak link in many models of JVC dvd/vcr combo players and recorders I have found. . The big problem I have found in the DR-MV1s is that the LSI chip even when the unit is off is using alot of power and the unit heats up quite a bit. I modified the unit so that the fan now turns on when it is off but not in power save mode otherwise the capacitors over time will fail from being overheated. | ||||||
| ggoat!!! posted 2007 Jan 04 00:03 | ||||||
| Hello everyone...
I know this is a long old topic, but the machines I am going to refer to have just started to exhibit the dreaded "loading" and screen-jizz problems. They both acted up in the same week, with similar results. I purchased two of the DR-MV1S units back at the end of 2004 for my parents; long-time videophiles. My mother recently had a stroke, and wanted my dad to make some home movie dvd's for her to watch. Therein came the current situation. I have been aware of the "loading" problem for some time, but these machines just for some reason never really had the problem for any length of time; they always fixed themselves without having to do anything to them and always worked when you needed them. Well, now it seems they have both bit the dust. I read thoroughly all the posts here, and performed the necessary repairs on the first of the two units; upgraded the resistors to 560ohm 2watters (they fit fine), the capacitors to 16v 2200mfd (all I could get locally) and installed the two 1k resistors. This first unit I attempted to repair was the one that showed the LEAST problem before-hand. It just locked up with the "loading" message, but never had the green line display problem. Well, once I put it back together, the loading problem was fixed, but the video output was now merely a black screen with occasional whitish noise spots appearing. Nothing else. Remember, this deck's picture output was fine before it locked up the other day (one of the rare times it developed the "loading" lock up). So, I figured maybe I'd damaged the processor board somehow when I installed the 1k resistors. So... Being very discouraged, at this point I turned my attention to the 2nd unit, much less used but much more frequently exhibiting the "loading" problem recently. Also, this 2nd unit recently actually HAD the green line/screen display problem. Basically, the 2nd unit was stuck in loading lock-up mode with the green lines. So, rather than repair at this time the capacitors/resistors as I did in the 1st unit, I first decided to see if I really did damage the processor board in the 1st unit by swapping out the processor assembly from the 2nd unit into the 1st unit (with the repaired capacitors/resistors) since the "loading" problem in the 1st unit seemed to have been fixed. BUT...when I installed the processor from the 2nd "less working" locked up DR-MV1S (that I hadn't repaired anything in at this point) in the 1st DR-MV1S that I had just "repaired" (loading problem fixed), the previously repaired "LOADING" message appeared in the 1st unit with the subsequent locking up. Since I had just replaced/repaired the components in this 1st unit and the loading problem disappeared, I'm assuming the processor is fried in the 2nd unit, which is why this processor out of the 2nd unit causes the previously repaired 1st unit to suddenly go back into the "loading" lockup. When I put back the processor from the 1st unit (the one I think I might have damaged) back into this 1st unit, the loading problem disappeared but the screen still remains black with occasional white/noise. ****I'm just reading this over, and it seems a little confusing. Here is a quick sum-up: 1) 1st unit..."loading" locked up, but no previous green lines in screen 2) 2nd unit..."loading" locked up, much more frequent, green lines in screen 3) Repaired capacitors/resistors in 1st unit; loading problem disappeared, but screen now black with occasional white noise 4) Swapped out processor board from untouched 2nd unit into 1st unit; loading lock up problem returned to 1st unit 5) Swapped processor boards back to original state; 1st unit loading problem disappears again, screen remains black with white noise randomly 6) Nothing ever repaired or altered in 2nd unit So, what I'm wondering is WHAT DO I DO??? I spent over $700 for both of these back then as gifts for my parents. My dad loves using them; he copies home movies all the time. Also, what kills me is the quality of the discs these units make. Sure, they are complicated to work, but they make great copies and clean up signals nicely. I know of NO OTHER current combos with the LS1 chipset, FR recording, and the picture quality of this JVC. The newest version (DR-MV7S) I don't think does the FR mode, which is what my dad uses exclusively. LG has the LS1 chips, but no FR mode. Are these units worth repairing? To repair them at this point, I think they need entire new processor boards each. Does anyone have any ideas about what else these problems could be? I haven't altered anything in the 2nd unit; the 1st unit again has had at least the capacitors and the resistors repairied properly (except for possibly the resistors on the processor board). Am I correct in my assumption of the death of the processor in my 2nd unit as described above? If I DO need new processor boards, what would be the likelihood that this will fix these units? What else could go wrong? Are the NEW processor boards that you can buy as parts UPDATED so that you don't have to add the resistors? JVC doesn't seem to be able to tell me. I would never buy the boards and then have to solder resistors to them. So....PLEASE anyone, help any way you can. Does anyone know where I can get new processor boards CHEAP? The JVC site lists them as nearly $300; they are nearly double that almost everywhere else. I'm not spending that much to fix these. Looking forward to anyone's help! :) Thank you VERY much! Jeff | ||||||
| gshelley61 posted 2007 Jan 04 00:33 | ||||||
| Buy a couple of working MV1's on eBay if you really want to stay with that model. They are available, and most have already been to JVC Service to correct the "loading" issue. Or get MV5's instead... it replaced the MV1 and did not have the "loading" problem that the earlier JVC's did.
You could have sent both your defective units to JVC for repair (at no charge), even out of warranty. They are still doing that for the "loading" problem. However, since you've already worked on them yourself, I don't know if they will do it for you now. There is also the SR-MV40, which is JVC's current pro-line DVD Recorder / S-VHS combo unit. Check into it. The newer Panasonic combo units do a decent job of cleaning up VHS before conversion to DVD (have a look at the DMR-ES35). They have an FR mode, and a much improved encoder over the old Panasonic units. | ||||||
| emlsnws posted 2007 Jan 16 07:15 | ||||||
| Hi everyone,
I'm still around, just visit occasionally now. I tried a different brand of disc in my DRMV1S recently (TDK DVD-RW 4x, media code TDK601saku) as I wanted to give the 'old faithful' discs I have been using, a rest. However, this change brought back a lot of failed recording issues from the past. These were unattended (instant record) recordings, so the cause I remember from experience : somewhere during the recording the machine does a reset ("loading") and then the disc is part-written and the new recording is unreadable. I went back to the 'old faithful' discs, Ridisc purple DVD-RW's (2x, media code TDK502sakuM3) which I've had for 2 years, and all was well. The only trouble I could not pin down to the media was a 2 hour VCR-DVD dub which failed halfway through. A second attempt worked ok. That might have been power supply unable to cope with the load of both halves of the machine in operation. I still have the service manual PDF I purchased for this unit way back. | ||||||
| canyon posted 2007 Jan 21 10:38 | ||||||
| Thankyou....Thankyou....Thankyou...
I bought a DR-M1 in London, and had the Loading bug after about 15 months. Even though it was out of warranty, JVC swapped it out for a new DR-M10 in September 2005. Suddenly, I've got the Loading bug on the new DR-m10, again well out of warranty. As soon as I plug it in it comes up with "loading" indefinitely. It was a bit of a struggle reading through 16 pages of this thread, but when I saw mgy999a's post near the bottom of page 15, showing what a blown electrolytic really looks like, I knew I could do something about it. A quick trip to Maplin's on Tottenham Court Road here in London (open on Sunday) to get 3 2200uF 16V electrolytics, total cost £2.15. Ten minutes soldering and it now works again. | ||||||
| garsonia posted 2007 Jan 30 08:18 | ||||||
| I just wanted to thank everyone for all their hard and thorough work on this thread. Using the information given I was able to repair my DR-M10 unit which was built in June of 2004. A friend of mine gave me this unit last month because he was tired of the random shutdowns he was experiencing. I used it for an entire week burning DVD-RW's and DVD-R's with no trouble at all until one day when I was finalizing a DVD-R. The DR-M10 shutdown for a moment and then the dreading "Loading" appeared. I first did the R5307 and R5308 resistor mod by lifting them up above the row of blocking capacitors as suggested by trhouse. I kept the factory resistors which tested OK. Next I added the two 1K pullup resistors to the digital board. I had 1/4 watt 1% resistors on hand which were too large to solder directly to the digital board as shown in the posts. What I did was hot glue the two resistors to an open spot in the center of the board and then use 30 gauge wire wrapping wire to make the connections. I have to tell you the fix worked right away. I have been using it for a week straight and have been burning a number of DVD's with no operating problems at all. I do not use the power saving feature and I have left the unit on 24/7 since the fix. It has been fine. At the same time I did the fix I also removed that annoying blue LED that lights up the disc tray. It was much too bright for my liking and when I used the lower brightness settings in the controls I could not see the display properly. This was a good compromise. Thanks again and keep up the good work!! | ||||||
| StuR posted 2007 May 30 11:47 | ||||||
| Hi, resurrecting this post as opposed to starting a new-
Can models like the JVC MH20, MH30 be repaired in a similar way as the M10. I realise loading error could be many problems but can they generally be classed as the same problem. Also how are the later M100, MH300 models bearing up now, are they looking prone to problems after a good bit of test-time, and if so can they be repaired DIY. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2007 May 30 13:31 | ||||||
| The answer is not simple. Recorders like the M10S and MV1 are the same generation and share the same video processor module. They would both be prone to develop the green lines and loading problem but the MV1 much less so because the MV1 has a better power supply and European M10S's also have a better power supply. Only US and Canadian M10S's have the power supply that gets too hot. The problem begins with interface issues in the video processor which are aggravated by changes in the power supply voltages. This is why the problem seems to come and go and is affected by unplugging the unit from wall.
If the recorders you are referring to have the same video processor module as either the M10S or MV1 then there is an increased possibility of the problem occuring. This problem is cured by adding the two 1K ohm pullup resistors to the video processor module. The posts above contain photos of this video processor module and p/n which can be used to identify it. | ||||||
| lordsmurf posted 2007 May 30 14:00 | ||||||
You assume the other models need repairs. They are not the same as the DR-M10 from 2004. Those are second-generation machines, and the flaws that infected a minority of first-generation machines no longer exist. The M20 and M30 are first-gen too, but are UK versions. Those are not the same as the M10 either. Not all M10 versions were affected by the power supply problem (which caused a default error message of "LOADING" to appear on the LED readout), and of those that were, they were primarily North American units. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2007 May 30 17:48 | ||||||
| Not all M10S's or MV1's or recorders of that generation require the fix. At some point, JVC implemented the change to the video processor assembly to alleviate the problem. This was how it was discovered when enlnws photographed the factory fix in his MV1 and posted it without realizing the purpose of those 1K resistors. | ||||||
| StuR posted 2007 Jun 01 11:23 | ||||||
| Very helpful thanks,
but I have seen MH200 for sale with 'loading' flashing problems, these can't be first generation. Would they be 2nd or 3rd. The MH300 is euro lasts generation so that I prosume is 3rd. Sadly the MH300 isn't a US model so I doubt if there's been much chance to test it on this site. | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2007 Jun 01 12:00 | ||||||
| I am not sure about the UK but you should call JVC to see how they support the "loading" problem. In the US, it is not considered a warranty repair so they will fix it outside the warranty period. | ||||||
| lordsmurf posted 2007 Jun 01 14:10 | ||||||
| "LOADING" is a generic error message. You could have sneezed in the DVD tray and caused it to get stuck, and it would show "loading". The most common reason for a first-gen machine to go into the "loading" error state was the PSU. Later machines, it's more than likely something else.
"LOADING" = "PROBLEM DETECTED" | ||||||
| StuR posted 2007 Jul 19 12:04 | ||||||
| Whilst search for info on my new JVC HD/SVHS I came across this interesting forum by some JVC electrical repair specialists. It's got details on repairs/faults on DVDRW and the later HD models even some unsettling info on the later HM300. Not for the amateur though, good to hear comments from someone who actually does repair them though.
http://www.cippico.com/bbs/index.php | ||||||
| xmiinc posted 2007 Aug 25 16:32 | ||||||
| Well...after spending two weekends reading through all 16 pages (and 2 years) of commentary on the loading/lines issue, I feel like some of you are old friends! First, let me grovel in gratitude at the time and effort some of you have put into these issues and the likely fix(es)! The helped clarify and inform immensely. This is what the internet is great at!
Now to my problem/fix which appears to be resolved (for the moment - fingers crossed!) thanks to the information posted here: I have the JVC MV1(SU) model with an Aug 04 manufacture date. As such, it worked flawlessly with heavy, daily usage, using DVD-RAM disks in a Tivo-style manner on a timer. AFAIK, I was NOT using Powersaver mode. About 4 months ago the unit exhibited its first "Loading" problem. As it appeared to resolve itself by removing AC power, I chalked it up to the oft-used RAM disks wearing out or something. About 10 days ago the problem reappeared, this time permanently. I then came to this thread, learned about all the components that might contribute to the problem and opened up my box. Right off, I was able to identify the C5207 cap had a bulge in it. All others appeared fine to the eye. I then separated the drive from the digital(?) board, removed the digital board - mostly to observe the zener D5503, R5501, R5502 components properly. Sure enough, as observed by others, there was considerable scorching of the board around all 3 components. On the PS board I observed scorching on the barrels of the 5207 and 5206 cap, also observed by others due to poor component placement by JVC. On the underside of this board, I also found scorching around the 4 diodes immediately next to the grouping of caps (sorry I don't have the numbers, unit is reassembled as I write this). So, armed with a list of caps and diodes I wanted to replace - but not being too hopeful finding them in New York City (known for a peculiar deficit of electronic components) I made my first stop Radio Shack. Couldn't find any of the resistors I wanted, couldn't find any of the diodes I wanted, and was only able to find a single, unpackaged cap, rated at 10V 2200mfd, suitable for the project. As it was unpackaged, the store manager let me have it for free(!) As the barrel of this cap is slightly larger than the one it replaced, and mindful of the heat issue, I decided to mount it high off the board. The bottom of the barrel is a good 1mm above the heat-creating diodes right next to it. On a hope and a prayer, I reassembled everything, plugged it in and viola! After the initial "Loading" message it went into its proper power-on mode, waiting for a disk to be inserted. Now I guess its a waiting game to see how long this part of the fix lasts. One interesting note regarding the LSI chip/box. Though I never had any video degradation, I was worried about the heat dissapation of the chip. No point in fixing the PSU only to have to rip the unit apart again to attempt saving the LSI! But then I saw that the enclosure was point-soldered onto the board and I wasn't crazy about removing those joints just to see what's what. So, using a maglite, I was just barely able to shine enough light into the one opening just large enough to observe the mating between box, thermal pad, and chip. It was a little iffy, but I finally decided that I was seeing a good mating of the chip with the pad, and the pad with the enclosure. The enclosure has an easily 1mm indent the size of the LSI which hosts the thermal pad on the inside. I'm not familiar with the other units mentioned in this thread, but it would appear that by August 04, JVC had made an adjustment in dissapating the heat from the LSI. Well, that's all for now. I'm now going to drill some ventilation holes in the unit enclosure as per emlsnws's mod... Cheers, Tom | ||||||
| Coruscant posted 2007 Sep 02 15:27 | ||||||
| My M10 finally quit this morning after almost three years. I had the "Loading" issue before but usually the machine would shut down after blinking for two minutes. Unplugging it for a few minutes would quell the problem. This time after pushing STOP to end a recording, the blinking just kept going and no amount of unplugging the machine would stop it. I checked the board and one of the larger capacitors was bulged. | ||||||
| lordsmurf posted 2007 Sep 02 17:44 | ||||||
I would not scrap the machine, I would get it repaired. Either by JVC or pay somebody here. | ||||||
| Coruscant posted 2007 Sep 03 13:56 | ||||||
When I bought the machine three years ago, I had no idea what to expect. I was rather hard on VCRs so I purchased a maintenance contract, but aside from the loading issue I experienced no other problems and never found the time to bring it in for the fix. Now it's unavoidable but since I still have two years left it won't cost me anything but time. My mistake was in buying it from a shop that does their repairs a hundred miles away. I'm told that it could be a month until I get it back. Next time, I'll buy from a reputable store that has a local repair shop. Worse, I opened the case before bringing it in and saw the bulged capacitor. The clerk who took my unit said he couldn't write this down as that would indicate that I'd opened the case and thus voided the maintenance contract. | ||||||
| xmiinc posted 2007 Sep 05 20:53 | ||||||
| ...read the latest here...thought I'd mention my repair + mod is working flawlessly 10 days on...couldn't have done it without this thread! If you can handle a soldering iron, its definitely worth a diy repair. The info is all in this thread...! | ||||||
| Offroad posted 2007 Sep 10 12:50 | ||||||
| My JVC DR-M10S (NTSC version) was purchased in May 2004, and was sent in to JVC for repair of the Loading Problem in July of 2005. I have never had any Green Lines on video recordings. The Loading problem has returned but now can't be reset by unplugging the unit.
From what I see in this thread if I try and repair this myself, I would want to perform the following power supply service: 1. Replace resistors R5307 and R5308. 2. Visually check Capacitors C5202, C5203, C5204, C5207, C5208 and C5209 for bulging and leakage replacing as needed. 3. Check the Diodes and board for heat damage and replace as needed. Where is a good place to get the parts? Thanks. ***Update*** I opened the case and did a visual inspection, C5203 has a bulge on its top but all other components appear ok. ***Update*** After replacing capacitors C5202, C5203, C5204, C5207, C5208, C5209 and resistors R5307 and R5308 my unit is now working fine. I obtained the parts from Digi-Key www.digikey.com For C5203, C5204, C5207, C5208 I used Digi-Key #493-1794-ND (2200uF 16V) For C5202 I used Digi-Key #493-1709-ND (1200uF 6.3V) For C5209 I used Digi-Key #493-1787-ND (680uF 16V) These are all 105 degree caps by Nichicon, the 2200uF 16V models were rated for 7000hrs and the others for 5000hrs. For resistors R5307 and R5308 I used Digi-Key #P390W-2BK-ND (390ohm 2watt 5%) Total cost including a $5 surcharge for not meeting Digi-Key's $25 minimum order and USPS Priority shipping was $9.39 Digi-Key shipped the same day of my order and I had the parts two days later. I mounted the resistors as high as the leads on them would allow as was suggested to get the heat they produce farther away from the Caps. I imagine replacing only C5203 would have fixed my problem but I thought I might as well replace the others given the cost. Thanks to all who spent time diagnosing the issues with the DR-M10 as it enabled me to fix mine and others to do the same. I would like to find a power source for the fan that would keep it running during standby (waiting for a timed record). Mine is cool while running and cool in power save mode (not waiting for a timed record) but gets hot during standby as the fan doesn't run. I didn't used to but will now be leaving the unit in power save mode when not in use. | ||||||
| video99 posted 2007 Sep 15 14:55 | ||||||
| My JVC DR-M1 (UK version) had been updated by JVC and has been working for some years. However when recording, it took recently to giving a very garbled display on the Composite Video output and shortly thereafter crashing and rebooting.
Here is the list of 105 degree rated capacitors in the Power Supply of a UK DR-M1: C5206 18uF 50V C5103 27uF 35V C5201 220uF 6.3V C5202 1200uF 6.3V C5209 680uF 16V C5210 680uF 6.3V C5207 1500uF 10V C5204 2200uF 16V C5208 2200uF 10V C5203 2200uF 10V I replaced these with high temperature, low ESR where possible, components sourced from Farnell (www.Farnell.co.uk). So here was my shopping list including their part numbers: Order Code Qty Description Mftr. & Part No. Unit Price Line Price 9692088 3 CAPACITOR, 2200UF 16V PANASONIC - EEUFC1C222 0.60 1.80 1144684 1 CAPACITOR, 1500UF 10V RUBYCON - 10ZL1500M10X23 0.53 0.53 1144681 1 CAPACITOR, 680UF 10V RUBYCON - 10ZL680M8X16 0.27 0.27 1144691 1 CAPACITOR, 680UF 16V RUBYCON - 16ZL680M10X16 0.39 0.39 1144645 1 CAPACITOR, 220UF 6.3V RUBYCON - 6.3ZA220M6.3X11 0.68 0.68 9692371 1 CAPACITOR, 18UF 50V PANASONIC - EEUFC1H180 0.075 0.08 9692398 1 CAPACITOR, 27UF 50V PANASONIC - EEUFC1H270 0.132 0.13 9691863 1 CAPACITOR, 1200UF 6.3V PANASONIC - EEUFC0J122 0.32 0.32 Goods Total: 10.35 VAT: 1.81 Total: 12.16 I checked all the components which came off my power supply, only for capacitance since I don't yet have an ESR meter. To my surprise, I found that C5103 had dropped from 27uF to 11uF, so this was likely to have been at least part of the problem. It is not with the main bunch of 105C capacitors, but still subjected to a lot of heat. The unit now works without crashing. I was able to order from an account and so pay no postage, the whole bill being £12. Even with postage though, it's quite affordable and keeps your machine going. These machines do perform very well (especially if you are able to record from s-video sources) so are worth saving. Regards, Colin | ||||||
| xmiinc posted 2007 Sep 16 16:03 | ||||||
| Thanks for the Digikey info, Offroad, that'll save me a lot of time when I get around to ordering the rest of these parts. My freebie cap from Radio Shack got me up and running again (and still going, 2 weeks later), but I noted the scorched board in some areas and fully expect to have one or more of those heat-stressed parts fail on me sooner or later. | ||||||
| vicitacion posted 2007 Oct 03 21:48 | ||||||
| Does any one in the UK have access to the service manual for the JVC DR-MV5S?
I do need the JVC Part Number for the EEPROM I need to compare the UK FW with US FW to make it region "0" and make the video output switchable to PAL or NTSC. I do have the US FW, I need the UK or Australia FW or EEPROM Part Number Thanks Vici | ||||||
| laserman posted 2007 Oct 04 13:56 | ||||||
| JVC Part No.
LPN1001-001C-32 This is the eeprom for the MV5-SEK version (UK) Good luck! ps Which programmer are you using ? | ||||||
| vicitacion posted 2007 Oct 05 11:34 | ||||||
| The EEPROM is available here for U$S32 I already ordered one
I'm using EE TOOLS TOP MAX I'll extract the FW and I'll compare it with the US version, then find where the difference are. This unit uses the same LSI logic Processor as the LITEON LVW-5045, meaning the same language and probably same location for the region ,etc The problem I've seen on this unit is that requires to set the region to the DVD Drive otherwise is not recognized, therefore I also need to find some one to make the DVD Drive (LG GDA-4063B)FW region "0"(I'll provide FW copy) Keep you post it Vici | ||||||
| laserman posted 2007 Oct 05 14:01 | ||||||
| Wow, thats a serious programmer !
Do the MV5`s all have the 4063b drive ? In the UK the MV1`s have both 4040b and 4063b. I can get the firmware for the above drives (unspecified region), however the region setting is a different story. To set the drive to region 2 (UK), the cd is a mere 7 bytes ! So I would suspect to set it to region 0, it would also be 7 bytes. As you know, both the eeprom and drive need to be set to the same region. Keep us posted. | ||||||
| vicitacion posted 2007 Oct 05 22:19 | ||||||
| Here the MV1 came originally with GDA-4040B then came the upgrade for GDA-4120B and nothing more after that because they were out of warranty.
The MV5 came first with GDA-4120B the the upgrade was GDA-4163B and nothing after that, but if you take the GDA-4164L set the region plus upgrade to the latest FW to the unit, will work fine. It's 7 butes for region 0, but I never done it for these DVD Drives. Have you tried? Last time I modded one I sent the FW to "the dangerous brothers" and they did it for me. But the main thing is to find the address where the Digital Board EEPROM has the region setting. Do you know anyone who modded the MV1 or MV5 in UK? Next week I'll remove the eeprom and install a socket. You may be wonder why I like to Mod an old unit. Well.. MV5 is the last JVC design and also allows DVD recording of HBO, Cinemax, etc. MV5 replacement and current units are all manufacture by LG(I already made them all region 0) but none of them allows to do DVD recording on copywrite broadcast material. People here are returning the units back to the seller. Let's see what happen | ||||||
| laserman posted 2007 Oct 06 05:00 | ||||||
| I have applied the region 0 modded dvd firmware to a 4040b. It works, but it isn`t a very elegent solution as the unit may fail to initialise if left powered off for a few days. I think the eeprom senses the mismatch.
Your right to look at the eeprom data and compare the two. Best of luck! | ||||||
| vicitacion posted 2007 Oct 06 12:31 | ||||||
| May be because you did region 0 using the FW from a GSA-4040B.
All JVCs use GDA prefix instead of GSA. GSA4163B FW is not the same as GDA-4163B FW. I'll try to remove the GDA FW from the 4163B original to make region 0 change. Contact me direct at rafaela3864@yahoo.com to exchange info Thanks | ||||||
| xmiinc posted 2007 Oct 07 14:15 | ||||||
If I were to replace D5502 and D5503, how would I order them on Digikey? I know they're Zeners (I think?) and they operate with -27V on the MV1S, but otherwise I'm ignorant about what I'm looking for to replace them. Help!
| ||||||
| trhouse posted 2007 Oct 07 17:39 | ||||||
These are the parts that can be used for D5502 and D5503 from the MV1S schematic. Only D5503 is a zener. D5502 is for temperature compensation.
 | ||||||
| xmiinc posted 2007 Oct 08 01:41 | ||||||
| Thanks for the quick reply, trhouse! But I still don't know how to order diodes from Digikey...for the zener they have 2 major types and then about 4 additional criteria by which to choose what type of zener to order, and I don't have a clue about such things. For instance, there is evidently no such thing as a strictly 27V zener. As for the alternate p/n's shown in the graphic, I plugged in the one's shown for the D5503 in the forlorn hope Digikey would recognize it...but no, its apparently not that simple :/
I spent a couple of hours scouring the thread (again), but didn't find any specs that were written that would help in this regard. I've got all that info for the caps and resistors...but not these diodes. I do know I want to eventually replace the two diodes (one a zener) because the scorch marks on the MV1 digiboard indicate heat stress, and I want to have parts on hand to replace them with. Thanks again, cheers, Tom | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2007 Oct 08 01:54 | ||||||
| Does it have to be DigiKey?
http://www.partstore.com/Part/Matsushita/JVC/MTZ27C/New.aspx http://www.partstore.com/Part/Matsushita/JVC/1SS133.aspx?s=sspro | ||||||
| xmiinc posted 2007 Oct 08 05:56 | ||||||
| I suppose not, but all the other parts will be coming from there. (Not to mention the price of these diodes from your vendor gets me close, if not over, the $25 digikey minimum...) But who's quibbling? Thanks so much for your help, trhouse! I love my MV1S and I wanna keep it running!--Tom | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2007 Oct 08 12:32 | ||||||
| Try this company. No minimums.
http://www.newark.com/ | ||||||
| xmiinc posted 2007 Oct 08 16:19 | ||||||
| What, you got somethin against Digikey? lol. Thanks again for your invaluable help!--Tom | ||||||
| Jaden posted 2007 Oct 22 16:38 | ||||||
| Hi all,
I have an Australian model DR-M10SAA (JAPAN made) and it started to show signs of the 'loading' fault. It is very hard to find some technical help but this forum provided the best information. I did the following and it seems to be OK???? The board is a different build to a lot of the DR-M10's talked about here, (Serial #139X0203) The power supply caps were bulging so I replace all that were recomended with quality cas (low ESR). C5202,5203,5204,5207,5208 & C5209. The mentioned resistors do not exist. The unit powered up and the 'loading' error came back, but after 30 seconds went away. I recorded for 4 hours and will record today for 6 hours while it is wamer for the unit. It seems if the power is of for more than 1/2 hour the 'loading' fault will show then go away. I will see if the unit keeps working. I also tried to upgrade the ROM drive but it did not like it! Anyone know if this has been done? The deck is only a -RW drive. Cheers Jamie | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2007 Oct 23 02:44 | ||||||
| Did you check the encoder assembly to see if your unit has the factory added two, 1K pullup resistors? | ||||||
| Jaden posted 2007 Oct 31 00:45 | ||||||
| Sorry for the delayed reply trhouse,
Where is the encoder board? Is it the shielded board to the right? That is the only board I could not see the name of. But the unit has been running faultless since the last posting. Anyone any ideas on changing the DVD drive?? | ||||||
| 306 Maxi posted 2007 Nov 21 17:04 | ||||||
| Hi guys! I'm Stefano from Italy, sorry for my English.
Fisrt of all, thx to all of you for this very useful thread. I bought my DR M10S in December 2004; after 8 months, i had the green line + LOADING problem; i took it to a JVC repair centre and they fixed both problems, but after few months the LOADING problem returned; day by day the problem was more and more frequent: now, the dvd-rec is pratically useless because every time i rec with timer, it blocks and LOADING blinks... I've just opened the rec and the capacitor C5203 has a little bulge and a very small brown leakage; the C5207 and C5208 have a very little bulge and no leakage; others capacitors are OK; in particular, the C5202 has already been replaced during the first warranty repair, and it's already a 16 V capacitor (105°C). I've not the resistors problem because it's a PAL unit and there aren't that 2 resistors. Tomorrow i'll buy 3 capacitors 16V 2200 uF 105°C; i'll ask for low impedance one, right? Then i will replace them, and make you know if the problem is finally fixed. I've already made a little modification to the external case... i've drilled some holes on the left side and on the top side, corresponding to the capacitors and the dissipator. The result is not nice to view... but surely efficacious in taking down temperature; maybe some more dust will go into the rec, but i prefer some dust than... a cooked dvd-rec... :lol: I'm also thinking about a little fan to add... but i wait if someone of you know how to power it when the dvd is in stand-by mode. Tomorrow i will post all the photos of the job. OK, see you tomorrow for news! Ciao, Stefano. PS: do you suggest to add also the two 1K Ohm resistors? I think that replacing capacitors is enough, also because now i've not the green lines problem. Thank you! | ||||||
| 306 Maxi posted 2007 Nov 22 11:30 | ||||||
| Here I am...
I've just finished the job, now i'm testing it. I want to rec for 6-7 hours without break. Here are some photos of the job I've done. The old capacitors on the board: note the C5203 (second from left) with a little bulge and a brown leakage; the C5207 and C5208 (fisrt and second from right) also with small bulges. As i said, the C5202 (the blue one) has already been replaced during the warranty repair, and it's already 16V 2200 uF (even if it's only 85°C, I've not replaced it for now, because it's OK). 
The new capacitors: 16V 2200 uF 105°C, just taken today for 1 € each :) 
The new capacitors just soldered on the board (I've tried to put them as far as possible each other). 
The lower case cut on the left side 
The upper case drilled on the left side 
The upper case drilled on the top side, in correspondence of the capacitors zone, the dissipator zone and there are also some holes on the processor zone (to the right) 
That's all, now i test it and make you know if the problem is finally fixed. Another time, thank you very much to all you, in particular mgy999a and trhouse :) PS: I think that now I'll use power-save mode when possible; but when I have to rec with the timer it's not possible, so i would like to find with you a way to power a little fan, also during stand-by mode. Do you know where i can find 12V voltage, active also during stand-by? :ideias: | ||||||
| Jaden posted 2007 Nov 23 04:38 | ||||||
| Wow! Some mod.
I would replace all the caps that have been recommended, by the pictures I would say the blue cap is close to going. I have had a month of faultless operation and have not had to drill any holes. Good effort though. Jamie | ||||||
| 306 Maxi posted 2007 Nov 23 12:37 | ||||||
| Yes, in the picture the blue cap seems to have a bulge, but in reality it's not so, it is OK. However, now itry in this way, then i can cange it very fast now that i know how to do.
Now the rec has a strange behaviour: last night, i rec for 6 hours and no problems, at my home; now it's recording from 1 hour, all OK. Instead, if i plug it at my girlfriend's home, after 20-30 minutes of recording it blocks and LOADING appears... very strange! I think in that house there are many periodical change in voltage, not exactly at 220 V (in fact, she had some problems with a cordless phone and a washing machine, for the same reason i think). Have you got any ideas about this? :? This evening i'll change also the blue cap, but as i said i don't think that it is the problem, because at my home all work perfectly. | ||||||
| Spready posted 2007 Nov 29 03:18 | ||||||
| Hi there,
I have had my JVC DR-M30S for approx 3 years. The other night it would not turn off after being left on all day (kids!!) Unplugged from the wall - left it ten mins - powered back on - LOADING! Have tried various methods of leaving off then powering up - Still LOADING. LOADING has been left flashing for 2 hours! I presume I could be looking at the same power problem here as with the M10. I have had a look on JVC's UK site but can't find anything to do with a service centre. Any UK help would be appreciated | ||||||
| trhouse posted 2007 Nov 29 17:59 | ||||||
Yes, the shielded assembly on the right side is the digital encoder. It was emlsnws in the UK who first posted photos of it with the factory added two, 1 K resistors. No one at the time realized the purpose of those parts. This assembly is more sensitive to changes in the power supply voltages without the resistors.
That can happen because as the line voltage goes up or down the power supply internal voltages will be affected a little bit too. The sensitivity of the the M10 to these small changes is greater if the unit does not have the added two, 1 K resistors on the encoder assembly. P.S. I am surprised to see the factory put in an 85 degree C part since the lower temperature part will have a higher failure rate compared to the 105 degree part for any given temperature. | ||||||
| richard1402 posted 2008 Jan 25 13:16 | ||||||
| The "loading" problem will not finally go away after it being intermitent for the past 4 years...
Is there no way of fixing this other than to get out my soldering iron (which I haven't used since 1986)! Surely JVC should fix this for FREE as it has been inherent in quite a lot of the machines as can be deduced from this forum. Has anyone had this bug fixed by JVC satisfactorily and for FREE? | ||||||
| Tundra Trout posted 2008 Jan 27 12:03 | ||||||
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| curlydawg posted 2008 Mar 03 18:58 | ||||||
| Yeah, they fixed mine and sent it back too. It worked fine for awhile. Now it just gets where you put a DVD in to watch and it says disc error or something. It may do that 30 times while you push it in and out or swap dvd's...and then it may work, or it may make you wait til the next day. I have threatened to run over this piece of junk with my tractor 100 times. | ||||||
| wemxm10 posted 2008 Apr 11 07:09 | ||||||
| I have had my DR-M10S packed in its box and in a cupboard for the last 3 years after it developed the loading problem. It was already fixed once by JVC and lasted roughly 2 months before breaking down again.
Constant nagging from my wife and the SKY plus running low on memory due to the amount of programs that want to be kept forced me into action to try and rectify the loading issue with the DR-M10s. After discovering this forum site and following the guide kindly supplied by members of this forum, the DVD recorder is now back in operation. I replaced 3 capacitor that clearly had bulged all were the 2200UF type. As recomended I used Farnell to obtain the new capacitors. They were extremely quick in delivery but will only process orders in excess of £20, but postage and handling are free unlike Digikey who charded £12 postage and £5 handling fee. Luckily I needed to purchase other items as well so the £20 minimum spend was ok. Once again, Thank you. :) | ||||||
| qaa posted 2008 Apr 19 07:22 | ||||||
| Hello
I have problems with recording sound on all inputs except firewire on my DR-M10. The recorded sound is interferenced so that it is impossible to hear the original track. Is there any way to fix it by myself? KR | ||||||
| Lumpy2 posted 2008 May 02 18:57 | ||||||
| Hi,
I would seriously appreciate some drawings of the Panasonic DMRES35V VHS-DVD recorder for disassemble and repair of the DVD drive. Regards, KH | ||||||
| Jase DRM10S UK posted 2008 Jul 02 10:23 | ||||||
| Big thanks in advance to all who have worked on the 'Loading' problem on the JVC DRM10
I, too, am a victim of the 2005 batch of boxes. I did a warranty return within the first month but the problem re-appeared with worsening frequency. Now the unit won't even load once. Just ordered some capacitors from RS Online: Electrolytic Radial 2200uF 16v 105degC very low impedance 2,000-10,000h life to replace the two bulged ones. I've also snaffled a 12v CPU fan from an old PC at work and ordered an external 12v power supply for it. I'll let you know how the unit fares after I've got the bits & fixed it all up. Wish me luck! | ||||||
| Jasper5 posted 2008 Jul 03 16:42 | ||||||
| I am on my 3rd JVC DR-MH30 with the "Loading" fault (1st two within a few months of purchase replaced under warranty with re-con units)The current one has lasted a couple of years. I am not technical so cannot start opening up the unit to repair. I called |