How to add watermark to VCD without Re-Encoding?

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How to add watermark to VCD without Re-Encoding?

shebi posted 2009 Apr 07 14:15

Hi

After a lot of googling, found nothing useful except one clue but unable to completely understand, so I am finally posting this question to you "experts"

I have hundered of VCDs which I want to upload to some video sites, but I want to add a simple text watermark to advertise my channel through these videos

I am very much concerned about the quality, thats why I am interested in without Re-Encoding technique

I found only one answer in this forum which was given long time ago by Great Cornucopia here

http://forum.videohelp.com/topic238991.html?sid=e73a0b6916f7ed065 ... c3#1587111

Ok, this may freak some out...certainly not newbie stuff:

You CAN apply a watermark to VCD material WITHOUT re-encoding.

You have to:

1. Extract VCD material (use ISOBuster, VCDGear, or VCDEasy for best results) to regular mpg1.
2. Demultiplex to elementary streams
3. Create a logo in photo editor app and convert it to SVCD/CVD (OGT) sub format (WinSubMux).
4. Multiplex elementary streams (V + A) + OGT sub (with WinSubMux)--hopefully it won't complain about the V stream being MPEG1. ***This is the old VCDHeader trick!*** (actually SVCD header trick)
5. Burn as SVCD. Play on player that supports SVCD w/subs.

Scott

Last edited by Cornucopia on Oct 05, 2006 21:18, edited 1 time in total

so as he said, certainly not a newbie stuff, but unfortunately, I am atleast newbie in this section :-) but I am trying hard to learn it

I used vcdgear to follow first step and it worked
then for 2nd step, I used TMPGEnc and it worked, if you know any better solution for demultiplexing, then please mention
but after then, I am stucked on step 3, I don't know, which photo editor I can use and how can I convert that bmp to SVCD/CVD OGT sub format (WinSubMux), so can anybody please explain this step in detail that which tools I need to convert into required format

and please explain the 4th step in as much detail as you can

and if somebody knows any other solution, then please help me, it will be highly appreciated

btw! I am enjoying this expert community here and proud to be a part of it.

waiting eagerly for your respose

redwudz posted 2009 Apr 07 14:36

You could use the freeware Gimp to create a logo: http://www.gimp.org/ Or maybe even MS Paint.

Look to our Subtitle forum stickies at the top of the forum for some quick info on using subtitles: http://forum.videohelp.com/subtitle-f44.html

And we have subtitle tools in our 'Tools' section: http://www.videohelp.com/tools/sections/subtitle Most programs have guides available, listed at the bottom of their toolpage.

The rest other members may be able to help you with.

And welcome to our forums. :)

poisondeathray posted 2009 Apr 07 14:41

Depending on what video sites you are referring to, there is a high probability that when you "upload to some video sites", that the host site will not accept "svcd with subs format", and you will end up re-encoding/hardcoding anyways.

tomlee59 posted 2009 Apr 07 14:54

I'm also dubious about whether you'll be able to upload such videos successfully. SVCD is already not widely supported, and you'll be producing a non-compliant SVCD, further reducing the likelihood of success. My guess is that you will have to re-encode, when all is said and done.

You might have more success if you author as a DVD, although I've not tried your specific task. A VCD's video is already DVD-compliant, so no re-encoding (and therefore no quality loss) would be involved there. You do need to perform a simple sample-rate conversion for the audio (from 44.1kHz to 48kHz; use a tool like Audacity, if you don't already have a favorite audio app), but that's fast and easy. If you are allowed to submit in DVD format, you might be in better shape that way.

Just a thought.

In any case, take a look at what those websites require in the way of format, and post back here. Once we have a better idea of what the actual constraints are, we can suggest more appropriate solutions.

shebi posted 2009 Apr 07 21:53

redwudz :

first of all, really thankful to all of you for quick response

thanks for the GIMP, and yes I am reading a lot in subtitles section but focusing on adding subtitles to mpeg vcd without re-encoding

poisondeathray :

hmmm, never thought of it, its a real valid point, I am going to upload on youtube, do they support?

tomlee59 :

hmm seriously thinking about it

tomlee59 :

You might have more success if you author as a DVD, although I've not tried your specific task. A VCD's video is already DVD-compliant, so no re-encoding (and therefore no quality loss) would be involved there. You do need to perform a simple sample-rate conversion for the audio (from 44.1kHz to 48kHz; use a tool like Audacity, if you don't already have a favorite audio app), but that's fast and easy. If you are allowed to submit in DVD format, you might be in better shape that way.

Just a thought.

the above point is appealing to me

which tool is best to convert my VCD video into DVD without re-encoding and there is no necessity for freeware, I can invest in commercial one if something better available for speed and quality

and yes, I have understood the audacity point

In any case, take a look at what those websites require in the way of format, and post back here. Once we have a better idea of what the actual constraints are, we can suggest more appropriate solutions.

so after googling about supported formats of youtube, I am doubtful about svcd with subs, what do you think?

so for more appropriate solution, I try to explain my problem so that you can better guide me

I want to convert VCDs into any youtube compatible format but that conversion should be without re-encoding as I don't want to degrade video quality at all

and then I want to hardcode a simple text watermark into that video without re-encoding as well

please experts, help your junior ;-)

redwudz posted 2009 Apr 07 22:06

OK, sort of one way around it all. I think you will have to re-encode. :( But you can encode first to a lossless codec like huffyUV or lagarith, apply your watermark, then re-encode to a format that YouTube likes. It's a bit more work, but should preserve most of the quality. Lossless codecs use a bit of hard drive space, so you need to consider that.

Try this if all else fails. :)

poisondeathray posted 2009 Apr 07 22:13

You have to re-encode.

You can't add a text watermark without re-encoding, unless you use a transparent overlay sub format with DVD or subtitle format with other video types (e.g. srt, ssa etc...). Youtube doesn't accept sub formats - i.e. the sub overlay won't show up.

If you use good h.264 settings (low quantizer, high bitrate), I guarantee that you will see no loss in quality (visually lossless) when played back locally on your pc - the bulk of the quality deterioration will occur when youtube re-encodes it

I can see no reason to use a lossless intermediate in this case, as suggested above. You can encode straight to the final format for upload and apply the watermark simultaneously through avisynth in 1 step. h.264/aac is highly recommended for the best quality/compression ratio

Is your "watermark" a text file or image based?

manono posted 2009 Apr 07 22:20

I don't get it either. VCD quality sucks to begin with. It's even worse than YouTube videos with the HQ button. And because of the low resolution, they'll never get the HQ button anyway. I don't believe they'll take the 4:3 DAR into account and will give you a video with an incorrect aspect ratio - and that's if they even accept MPEG-1 video, which I don't believe they do. And you can convert the text to SRT subtitle format and after the video is accepted you can upload them to be selectable and separate. Or make an annotation for them. Or advertise your channel in the video description that accompanies the video.

All anyone has to do to get to your channel is to click on your user name. I don't see the importance of "advertising" your channel. If they like your videos, they'll go to your channel. If your videos suck (and VCD quality sucks), no amount of advertising will get them to your channel. Me, just seeing the advertising would convince me not to go to your channel.

And poisondeathray, YouTube does accept external subs for display. Here's an example of one. If the subs don't show up automatically, read in the video description how to turn them on:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5yxt4UU4lw

poisondeathray posted 2009 Apr 07 22:23

^ OK it seems like youtube does accept srt subs according to manono? I wasn't aware of that. Do you have any control over placement?

If I was using this for advertising, I would use more than a simple text overlay. I would use something more "flashy" like a graphical overlay

manono posted 2009 Apr 07 22:37

Yeah, he said something about wanting to advertise his channel (for some reason). You can use annotations for that too, to make a clickable link on the video:

http://www.google.com/support/youtube/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=92710

Doing that would probably qualify as the "simple text watermark" he wants. I've never created any annotations, but there are plenty of people that have.

tomlee59 posted 2009 Apr 08 20:06

If all you want is a way to advertise your site, then manono's suggestion to use the annotation feature seems like the only practical alternative that does not require re-encoding (beyond what YouTube does to your source). If, instead (or in addition), you want to protect your content in some way by marking it with identifying text or graphics, then re-encoding is unavoidable.

shebi posted 2009 Apr 09 14:04

redwudz :

OK, sort of one way around it all. I think you will have to re-encode. :(

Try this if all else fails. :)

first of all, sorry for delayed response

and thanks to you people again for your expert advices ...

- - -

poisondeathray :

specially thankful to poisondeathray for taking time to response

hmm re-encode is a bad news :-)

poisondeathray :

If you use good h.264 settings (low quantizer, high bitrate), I guarantee that you will see no loss in quality (visually lossless) when played back locally on your pc - the bulk of the quality deterioration will occur when youtube re-encodes it

ok, which tool is best to do this job? I will try my best

poisondeathray :

I can see no reason to use a lossless intermediate in this case, as suggested above. You can encode straight to the final format for upload and apply the watermark simultaneously through avisynth in 1 step. h.264/aac is highly recommended for the best quality/compression ratio

ya, step1 would be great if possible

poisondeathray :

Is your "watermark" a text file or image based?

text

- - -

manono :

thanks manono

I tried to upload a vcd mpeg and used &fmt=18 at the end of youtube video address, its showing great quality in mp4

and for annotation, I thought a lot about it, but actually youtube is not the only choice, I am going to start with it, and then I will move to other sites, thats why I was looking for hardcoded subtitles solution without re-encoding

manono :

All anyone has to do to get to your channel is to click on your user name. I don't see the importance of "advertising" your channel. If they like your videos, they'll go to your channel. If your videos suck (and VCD quality sucks), no amount of advertising will get them to your channel. Me, just seeing the advertising would convince me not to go to your channel.

hmm its actually watermarking, so that when some people download my videos and share with each other, then viewers can come to my channel for latest updated videos in future

manono :

And poisondeathray, YouTube does accept external subs for display. Here's an example of one. If the subs don't show up automatically, read in the video description how to turn them on:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5yxt4UU4lw

hmm great example, its a way to explore ...

- - -

ok, after reading more & more about this topic, some ideas are coming into my mind, so I want to ask you people for possibility of them

1. can we convert vcd into dvd losslessly
2. can we put watermark on it without re-encoding
3. is there any other video format in which we can add watermark without re-encoding

in the meanwhile, I was trying it with dvd-lab pro, I converted vcd into dvd but did'nt succeeded yet in text subtitling of that video, still reading guides to make it happen

don't know, where I am going, I want your expert advice to be on track :-)

lordsmurf posted 2009 Apr 09 14:46

You keep asking the same stupid question.
And the answer is still "NO!"

shebi posted 2009 Apr 09 20:09

lordsmurf :

You keep asking the same stupid question.
And the answer is still "NO!"

:-)

The important thing is not to stop questioning.

Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)

newbies mostly ask stupid questions in the eyes of experts, but one day they become experts with their will to learn ...

brainstorming ...

anyways! if it is not possible at all, I leave it for now

and thanks again to all the experts

lordsmurf posted 2009 Apr 10 14:42

I don't think Einstein would approve of asking the same question over and over again. That's more along the lines of Bart Simpson logic (Lisa once tested him with a cupcake).

shebi posted 2009 Apr 10 19:59

lordsmurf :

I don't think Einstein would approve of asking the same question over and over again. That's more along the lines of Bart Simpson logic (Lisa once tested him with a cupcake).

firstly I asked for vcd watermarking
then I asked for dvd watermarking
and then I asked for any format if possible

so you can better guess ...

nothing personal

Supreme2k posted 2009 Apr 15 13:53

You're not asking different questions, but the same damn question in a different way.

VCD, DVD, AVI: They are all the same thing for this process, minor variances aside. It's like asking how to inflate a bike tire, a car tire or a truck tire. The process is the same, just the minor details that are different.

Your question has been answered several times. Don't belittle Einstein's words by using them to back up your idiocy.

shebi posted 2009 Apr 15 20:29

shebi :

Hi again :-)

I am agreed with encoding :-) but is there anyway to add watermark into vcd mpeg1 without quality loss or minimal loss?

I mean I want the nearest quality as source. Is it possible with any free or commercial software?

Waiting eagerly for expert's advice as before ...

Source:- http://forum.videohelp.com/topic366848.html

First of all, Sorry to all who read my post and wasted their time for the same question, english is not my native language so I cannot express exactly and 2ndly I thought I am asking a different question but I left some key words which I just included in blue color

poisondeathray posted 2009 Apr 15 20:38

I already answered , look above. h.264 . If you use good settings, you won't be able to tell the difference = visually lossless

You can use many free software that use x264 encoder. eg. ripbot264, xvid4psp, megui. Just use either a high bitrate (for 2pass mode) or low crf value (for 1pass quality encoding).

You may want to pre-process with some filters if your vcd is low quality, unless your goal is to keep the imperfections. Sometimes you can actually improve the subjective quality by using filters, e.g. if your source had bad colors or was very noisy

shebi posted 2009 Apr 15 20:46

poisondeathray :

I already answered , look above. h.264 . If you use good settings, you won't be able to tell the difference = visually lossless

You can use many free software that use x264 encoder. eg. ripbot264, xvid4psp, megui. Just use either a high bitrate (for 2pass mode) or low crf value (for 1pass quality encoding). You may want to pre-process with some filters if your vcd is low quality, unless your goal is to keep the imperfections

thanks a lot for such a great support

I did it, but 80mb 8.7min mpeg1 file converted to xvid resulted 270mb which is quite bigger for uploading

so what I was looking is almost the same size of output with best possible quality, is it possible?

poisondeathray posted 2009 Apr 15 20:49

not xvid, use h.264 for better quality/compression (x264 encoder is a free open implementation of h.264)

please use [search]. This topic has been addressed many times

If you have specific requirements e.g. need suggestions for restoration filters or help with settings, then post a sample and your goal

shebi posted 2009 Apr 15 20:49

and I am feeling very depressed after this kind of attitude :roll:

Noahtuck :

does anyone use the search function anymore :roll:

I just saw a whole thread on this started a week or two ago and one shortly before that one

Oh wait, that was your's,
http://forum.videohelp.com/topic366530.html

Seriously... are you a bit thick ??

:roll: :roll:

I have been searching on this topic since a month and invested a lot of hours but did'nt get any exact answer, still searching & learning ...

what I am thinking is when somebody don't have answer to the question, then he can blame on question to answer ...

anyways! everybody needs respect and so do I

shebi posted 2009 Apr 15 20:51

poisondeathray :

hmm OK

I just do it, and let you know, thanks a milllion times :D

poisondeathray posted 2009 Apr 15 20:55

The easier GUI's to use are probably ripbot264, handbrake, xvid4psp

The bitrate will determine how big your end file is:

filesize = bitrate x running time

Even a mild denoiser/smoothing filter can dramatically drop your bitrate requirements, depending on your source

If you have a "text watermark" you want overlaid, you can make a .srt file and use textsub() . But I would use a graphical overlay it would look much better

shebi posted 2009 Apr 15 20:57

poisondeathray :

great, I am working, will let you know the results soon, thanks again and again

shebi posted 2009 Apr 26 09:26

hi again

first of all thanks to all the experts who contributed in this thread positively.

after reading, learning, testing and trying, atlast I have found a simple solution which meets my requirements atleast :-)

so I am here to share my experience with you.

I want to list the softwares I tried in this process but only one fulfills my requirements.

DVD-Lab Pro

after trying all above, only Video Watermark Factory gives me almost same quality and good speed.

and I am specially thankful to great poisondeathray for great advices.

see ya around ...

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How to add watermark to VCD without Re-Encoding?