Forum Archive Home -> Computer -> Hard-Drive write caching,Is my hard drive faulty

Hard-Drive write caching,Is my hard drive faulty

jezzer posted 2008 Sep 22 02:09

Could i have a faulty hard-drive because i have problems when i transfer my dv video to my pc,I get alot of dropped frames and i mean alot and the only way i can stop having dropped frames is to turn off write caching on the disk Or is there something that could cause this to happen?? Specs: XP Pro Corsair VX 450W ATX PSU Asus A8N-SLI Premium AMD Athlon 64 3700 processor Western Digital Caviar WD2500JB BFG GeForce 8800 GTS 320MB GeIL 2GB

MJA posted 2008 Sep 22 02:35

Western Digital Data Lifeguard Diagnostics http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/Hard-Disk-Utils/Western-Digit ... tics.shtml

MJA posted 2008 Sep 22 02:36

deleted

jezzer posted 2008 Sep 22 03:07

Thanks for that,Sorry i forgot to say ive used that program and there is no problems,Thats whats odd i know it doesn't come up with anything but wouldn't the write caching point towards a hard-drive problem

MJA posted 2008 Sep 22 03:13

is the HD device property is set UDMA 5 ? just trying to help. it could be the software you are using to transfer the video to your PC,or usb,firewire issue,,,,

jezzer posted 2008 Sep 22 03:26

Hi :) Yep its in DMA mode Im using firewire and ive tried two different external firewire cards. Software,WinDv and windows movie maker same issue. Ive done a defrag only have programs that need to be running Ive done all the checks thats why im a bit lost :|

MJA posted 2008 Sep 22 03:28

I guess u need to wait for Level 2,or 3 tech support. lol. please wait a moment :-)

DB83 posted 2008 Sep 22 04:08

Is this a new problem ie have you successfully captured before ? If this is the first time you are capturing, the problem may simply be that you only have one hard drive. You may think you are not running any other programs while you capture but you are - it's called Windows and that it's self is constantly reading and writing from the drive. At the same time you are trying to write data very quickly to the same drive. Windows will have a problem. Solution. A separate hard drive just for capturing/editing. Just my 2 cents.

MJA posted 2008 Sep 22 04:14

I used WinDv on my system less power than his (AMD-3000,1GB RAM,80GB HD) no issues at all

gadgetguy posted 2008 Sep 22 08:02

IMO you've already solved your problem. Turn off write caching when you capsfer. This problem is described here (click here). And while most of the information is aimed at W2K, it states that the problem also effects XP, and according to M$, they don't have a fix for it in XP.

jezzer posted 2008 Sep 22 10:21

DB83 : Is this a new problem ie have you successfully captured before ? If this is the first time you are capturing, the problem may simply be that you only have one hard drive. You may think you are not running any other programs while you capture but you are - it's called Windows and that it's self is constantly reading and writing from the drive. At the same time you are trying to write data very quickly to the same drive. Windows will have a problem. Solution. A separate hard drive just for capturing/editing. Just my 2 cents. No ive done a bit of caputure before and it had allways dropped frames,I know you are right i should have a seperate hard-drive but i dont capture alot just at birthdays xmas etc..Also i didn't want to get another hard-drive and find i still had the same problem gadgetguy : IMO you've already solved your problem. Turn off write caching when you capsfer. This problem is described here (click here). And while most of the information is aimed at W2K, it states that the problem also effects XP, and according to M$, they don't have a fix for it in XP. Yea i found a way to solve my problem,But really i dont think i should have to do this im sure there is something wrong somewhere,Thanks for the link nice bit of reading but i just cant belive its a problem with xp so far ive not spoke to anyone who has the same problem as me

gadgetguy posted 2008 Sep 22 10:50

It's a problem with certain configurations of certain hardware running WinXP. Replacing or putting in a different hard drive would likely solve the problem, or using a different motherboard, or a number of different possibilities. It's precisely because it doesn't affect the majority of people that M$ isn't going to do anything about it.

jezzer posted 2008 Sep 22 12:04

ORight i see now thanks :) So if i do get another hard drive what should i get same make? The thing is if i do go for a Western Digital then it might happen again..

MJA posted 2008 Sep 22 12:06

does't have any thing to do with HD jumpers slave/master?

minidv2dvd posted 2008 Sep 22 12:24

external firewire card? what is it?

jezzer posted 2008 Sep 22 12:27

MJA : does't have any thing to do with HD jumpers slave/master? Sorry going to sound thick what do you mean when you say it doesn't have any thing to do with HD jumpers?,My HD is master. minidv2dvd : external firewire card? what is it? I have no idea what make the card is it came with the mobo :| It came with two external and one onboard firewire EDIT: Hold on when i mean external i mean its a pci firewire card

minidv2dvd posted 2008 Sep 22 12:37

ok, it's a normal internal firewire card with rear panel ports. just making sure it wasn't one of those firewire to usb converters.

gadgetguy posted 2008 Sep 22 12:48

minidv2dvd : ok, it's a normal internal firewire card with rear panel ports. just making sure it wasn't one of those firewire to usb converters. WinDV wouldn't have worked with that. Try moving your firewire card to a different slot. That might be enough of a change to affect the problem. If you want to add a drive, I would try a Seagate, but only because your current drive is WD, (if your current drive was a Seagate, I'd be advising trying a WD).

nic2k4 posted 2008 Sep 22 13:00

jezzer : DB83 : Is this a new problem ie have you successfully captured before ? If this is the first time you are capturing, the problem may simply be that you only have one hard drive. You may think you are not running any other programs while you capture but you are - it's called Windows and that it's self is constantly reading and writing from the drive. At the same time you are trying to write data very quickly to the same drive. Windows will have a problem. Solution. A separate hard drive just for capturing/editing. Just my 2 cents. No ive done a bit of caputure before and it had allways dropped frames,I know you are right i should have a seperate hard-drive but i dont capture alot just at birthdays xmas etc..Also i didn't want to get another hard-drive and find i still had the same problem ______________________________________________________________________________________________ Unless you're willing to live with having to turn off caching, DB83 gave you the only solution. I was doing miniDV capture to un-compressed AVI without dropping a single frame (25 meg/sec sustained) and that was with just an AthlonXP 2000 on Win2k and two 60 GB Seagates. You don't need to get a large drive 160 GB drives are selling for around $50 and you can get 80 GB's for less than $40. Even if you don't think you'll use it that much, you just might be surprised how handy it will come in. If you do any file processing (think shrinking, compressing, blanking...) going from one drive to the other will speed up the work considerably. You could also use it to back up your data and save images of your main drive with Acronis True Image (it'll save your ass when disaster strikes).

jezzer posted 2008 Sep 22 13:21

gadgetguy : minidv2dvd : ok, it's a normal internal firewire card with rear panel ports. just making sure it wasn't one of those firewire to usb converters. WinDV wouldn't have worked with that. Try moving your firewire card to a different slot. That might be enough of a change to affect the problem. If you want to add a drive, I would try a Seagate, but only because your current drive is WD, (if your current drive was a Seagate, I'd be advising trying a WD). Ok i will try putting it in another slot :) I think even if it does work which i hope,I will still get aanother HD :) nic2k4 has made a good point aswell a second HD would be good to back stuff up aswell Thank you all :) :)

gadgetguy posted 2008 Sep 22 13:31

I don't think I said anything that insinuated that you shouldn't get one, but if you or anyone else interpreted it that way then let me clear it up now. I highly recommend using a separate hard drive for capsfer/editing/encoding video, whether you have problems capsferring to your main drive or not. :)

jezzer posted 2008 Sep 22 14:30

Nope you didn't say i shouldn't get one your post was helpful :)

jezzer posted 2008 Sep 22 15:25

Ive just had a thought: With a internal HD it will be powered up and would have the same risks as the source drive if something went wrong,So wouldn't it be better to get a external HD so then its not powered from the pc?

gadgetguy posted 2008 Sep 22 16:23

For backups, an external drive make sense, but you should really use an internal drive for capsferring. Theoretically it should work, but many people experience dropped frames, which of course is how this whole thing started.

jezzer posted 2008 Sep 22 16:44

Ok ill start off with a internal drive,I dont want to be back here saying ive got dropped frames with a external drive lol Cheers

jagabo posted 2008 Sep 22 16:56

An external esata drive will be as fast as an internal drive.

gadgetguy posted 2008 Sep 22 18:11

And an USB drive should be fast enough to keep up. None the less, people experience problems capsferring to an external drive, it's not always about speed.

jagabo posted 2008 Sep 22 18:20

An eSATA connection is the same as an internal SATA drive -- just the cabling and connectors are different. USB is a protocol developed for low bandwidth applications. Adding hard drives to it is a kludge with small transfer packets and high latency.

gadgetguy posted 2008 Sep 22 18:47

And if the external power supply has a problem so does the eSATA drive, but that's all beside the point. Nowhere did I say an external drive wouldn't work, only that some people have experienced problems and because this started with capsfer problems, it makes more sense to stick with what fewer people have complained about.

jezzer posted 2008 Sep 27 04:58

Just a small update: Instead of using the onboard connection i tried the other card that came with the mobo its not a pci card,the firewire card has a cable comming out of the card with a little plug that goes into the motherboard.Well i tried that still the same,Im still going to buy a second HD as advised but is it going to be any better if i buy a pci firewire card,Is it going to be any better than the onboard Cheers again

gadgetguy posted 2008 Sep 27 07:51

All things being equal, it shouldn't make any difference whether the firewire in on-board or a PCI card, but all things aren't equal or you wouldn't be experiencing dropped frames. I did a quick check at Asus (Click Here) and there a ton of bios updates and drivers for that motherboard. I didn't look through them to see if anything addresses this issue, but you should. If you don't find anything there or aren't comfortable updating the bios, then a PCI firewire card might make the difference.

Nelson37 posted 2008 Sep 27 07:58

The issue with the hard drive write caching is completely different from, and Totally Unrelated to, the Firewire card. While using a different firewire card may very well affect the capture ability, it will in no way affect hard drive performance. The dropped frames are most likely a direct result of the write caching problem, lowered drive performance is specifically referenced in the technical explanation of the problem. This issue is very rare, I have only seen it two or three times. A second hard drive, unless it is absolutely identical to the first one, is extremely unlikely to suffer the problem. However, there is quite simply no way to predict this, it's a crap shoot. Purchasing additional Firewire cards is unlikely to affect this problem and is most likely a waste of money. A second drive offers multiple benefits and almost always helps to avoid dropped frames. Personally I would recommend an internal simply for economic reasons. Definitely not a USB drive.

jezzer posted 2008 Sep 27 10:59

Thank you to both of you,I might update the bios but thats a bit to scary if things went wrong. When i was talking about a fire wire card i wasn't meaning it might solve the problem,Like you said its got to be hard drive related,I was just seeing once i got another HD would it be any better to have a card,To me i couldn't see if there would be any difference in quality or ?? im happy what comes out when i do my transfer. O just one thing if i transfer from my pc to my camera then i get no dropped frames,Its just when i do it from my camera to pc

gadgetguy posted 2008 Sep 27 11:06

No, as long as the on-board firewire works, the resulting video will be no different.

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