Forum Archive Home -> DVD Recorders -> DVD recorders -- FATAL FLAWS LIST!
| DVD recorders -- FATAL FLAWS LIST! | ||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 Mar 25 15:37 | ||||
| ALL DVD RECORDERS HAVE A FATAL FLAW !!! Sometimes SEVERAL fatal flaws. At least right now. While we can continue to hope for more and more improvement, this is how recorders have been since 2001 or so when the first ones appeared. Newer models usually disappoint as much as the older ones.
The following list is of DVD recorders: the flaws, the fixes, and other pertinent information. While this list does not include every single recorder made worldwide, it does include the most popular and most readily available units (found in most retail and electronics stores). While it is USA-centric, more "foreign" models will be added as needed (note: if you are a PAL or NTSC JAPAN user, IRE errors will not apply to your country's native video format). Some things to remember, in general, about DVD recorders: (1) There is no "holy grail firmware fix" for most errors. It is often a hardware or mechanical issue to deal with. (2) Another issue is TBCs (timebase correctors) and how they function. Know that most "TBCs" are misnomers, and are really just TBC-like circuits. What few units have TBCs use ones that are so weak that they do almost nothing. . . Apex Issue: Power supply parts explode. Often just creates "electronics stink" of burnt boards. Kills machine. Can ruin the drives/boards. Has been known to start fires. Tends to ONLY happen when turning it off/on, or timer turns it off/on. How common is it? It infects pretty much every single Apex unit, though it may be contained more to the DRX-9000 model. Because the Digitrex variations (R4) use another PSU, those are not affected. Can it be fixed? Yes and no. Apex does NOT fix it correctly. There is an indepedent Apex repairman online known as ArizonaSteve that fixes them. He has a site, and sometime sells his kits on eBay. Will it break again? If Apex fixes it, yes it will break again. They replace it with more of the same faulty parts. ArizoneSteve uses new parts, so it should not fail again (tests have gone very well). Centrios No available information at this time. Do not mistake this to mean "it has no errors". Quality and build seems to be very similar to Sanyo, likely a newer clone. Coby No available information at this time. Do not mistake this to mean "it has no errors". Daewoo No available information at this time. Do not mistake this to mean "it has no errors". Cyberhome Issue: (1) Mainboards fail. (2) Power supply gives out. (3) Tray refuses to eject. How common is it? (1) Very common. (2) Not so common, but you hear about it. (3) Very common. In fact, many have been known to be inoperable right out of the box. Can it be fixed? (1) Yes. (2) Yes. (3) Yes. Will it break again? (1) Yes. (2) Yes. (3) Yes. In all three cases, the parts are replaced by more of the same ones. Daytek See LiteOn. Digitrex See Apex. Ellion No available information at this time. Do not mistake this to mean "it has no errors". Emerson Issue: Macroblocks in 4-hour mode. How common is it? Limitation of the unit. Can it be fixed? No. Will it break again? N/A Gateway See LiteOn. Go.Video GoVideo rebrands other machines. Varies by model. A number of them are LG clones. ILO See LiteOn for the "04" models. See Cyberhome for the "05" models. JVC Issue: "Loading" error on DR-M10 and DR-M1V. Power supply related. See this thread and this thread for more info. Easy to avoid for most people (enable POWER SAVE mode). How common is it? It only affects a relatively small percentage of machines (JVC techs have verified this several times). It mostly affects the DR-M10 units, and even then, mostly units manufactured in mid 2004. While both NTSC and PAL units exhibit this problem, it seems to affect USA NTSC models the most. The new DR-M100 and HDD units do not seem to have this problem. Can it be fixed? Yes. Take it to JVC center, will be done for free. Will it break again? No. They use a totally different part which is better rated to fix the power issue. Related myths: (1) JVC is "too light". That is simply not true. (2) JVC has a TBC. It does not, regardless of what the Japanese pamphlets say. Kreisen See Ellion. LG No available information at this time. Do not mistake this to mean "it has no errors". LiteOn Issue: (1) Random jitter in the image, randomly while viewing or recording. (2) Green tint, randomly when playing and/or recordings. (3) Mono tuners, not stereo. The stereo is only using RCA audio (red/white wires). (4) Overheating. How common is it? (1) Random, yet very common. Tends to happen more on 1163 or later firmwares. Note: that is a USA R1 number, other region firmware numbers vary slightly. This seems to be a problem more on 5001, 5005 and 5006 units. Or ones using those mainboards. (2) This issues seems to infect only the newest LiteOn models (like 5045, 5007) and ILO models. It is about as random as the jitter, not everybody sees it. (3) While there may be a couple stereo models, most are mono. (4) Very common, especially on the models that have no fans, no heatsinks, and no air vents, or combination thereof. Can it be fixed? (1) Yes. Downgrade to 1143 or older firmwares. The work-around is to hit SOURCE a couple times to cycle back to it. This can also be caused by overheating. (2) Recent firmware upgrades are reported to correct this problem. But since the nature of the error is random, this fix is unlikely to fix every unit exhibiting this problem. Try it, and cross your fingers. (3) No. This is the hardware of the tuner. It is dual-channel mono, so it's not like you'll only get audio from one speaker. Since many tv shows are mono, especially anything syndicated, this will not be noticed by most people. (4) Yes, with some custom work. Simply removing the cover will provide decent air to keep the unit from failing. Further work yields even better results, such as -A- drilling holes in the side of the case (remove the cover, do not drill into the unit while it is assembled), -B- cutting a RAM heatskink in half with a hacksaw and using thermal tape to attach it to the LSI chip, -C- installing a small fast fan to blow air across the motherboard, and out of the drilled vent holes. This will also correct most jitter issues, if the fan blows LOTS of cool air across the heatsink. This setup may be slightly noisy, but no worse than a computer, ceiling fan or air conditioner, which most people have running anyway. Some of the oldest firmware is also known to run hotter on the chips, too much code activity going on in them. Will it break again? This question is moot for the first 3 issues, seeing as how none of them can be fixed. Just work-arounds, hopeful patches, or hardware limitations. For (4), this fixes the cooling issue permanently, and often corrects the jitter issue most of the time. Related myths: The drive model affects the jitter or heat. This is simply not true. The drive model has no effect on any of the LiteOn flaws. Magnavox See Philips. Malata No available information at this time. Do not mistake this to mean "it has no errors". Maxent No available information at this time. Do not mistake this to mean "it has no errors". Memorex No available information at this time. Do not mistake this to mean "it has no errors". Unit has subpar video quality. Mustek No available information at this time. Do not mistake this to mean "it has no errors". Panasonic Issues: (1) Macroblocks in images, especially at anything longer than 2-2½ hours. (2) On early units, IRE was incorrect, meaning the image was far too bright and colors desaturated. This is usually not seen on the recorder (used as the player), but is VERY apparent when played on ANY other DVD player. (3) On recent units, luma is overpowering, causing image to shift slightly green and a shade too dark. This is very obviously an attempt to correct the IRE issues, but was overly agressive. (4) AC3 Dolby Digital audio files are imperfect, often corrupt, sometimes causing computer editing to be near-impossible (audio sync errors). (5) HDD units are known to fail, or have U99 errors. (6) Authoring errors can cause discs to not play or copy. How common is it? (1) Very common. It infects every Panasonic machine. (2) The E10, E20 and E30 are the only units with this error. (3) All units AFTER the E30 have IRE "fixed" but this error has taken it's place. (4) Common enough to be wary of. It may be a certain combination of recording mode and media type that causes this. (5) Very common on the E80 and E85 units. (6) Very common, infecting a large majority of units, maybe all of them. Can it be fixed? (1) No. This is the craptacular in-house Panasonic hardware encoder chipset, and they seem to like it that way. (2) No. (3) No. This is some potential that it can be fixed in theory, but only Panasonic techs would know if it were possible. This has not happened, and probably never will. (4) Unknown. The error is not persistent enough to be identified as of yet. The work-around is to edit the video in Womble MPEG Video Wizard and let the software re-encode all the audio to MP2 format. You can convert it back to AC3 later if needed. (5) Yes, sort of. There is a work-around. The "split title" function can help avoid the problem, sometimes. Panasonic can also replace entirely dead drives at the service centers. (6) Yes, sort of. There is a work-around. re-author the disc on the PC. DVD Shrink and TDA are two methods that work fast and effective. Will it break again? Does not apply to (1), (2), (3), (4) and (6). For (5), yes. Panasonic will replace it with more of the same faulty parts. There are many complaints of repeated failures. Related myths: (1) Panasonic has "deeper colors". That is simply not true. It is a visual distortion caused from being slightly too dark, which gives false illusion of "deeper" colors. (2) The TBC improves quality. DVD recorder TBCs are so weak they may as well not exist. Philips Issue: (1) The image quality is grainy. (2) The unit is also known to have various mechanical failures, such a refusing to power on or image freezing while playing or recording. How common is it? Pretty common, affects a large number of units. Can it be fixed? (1) No. The image quality is part of the inferior Philips MPEG chipset. This will likely never change. (2) Some of the mechanical issues can be fixed by Philips. Will it break again? (1) N/A. (2) Yes, it will likely break again. Philips does not fix them permanently. Myths: Firmware "fixes all this". That is simply not true. Pioneer Issue: Picture drop-out from VHS sources. How common is it? You will hear about it, but not many people ever see it. The PAL units seem to garner far more complaints that the NTSC ones. It does not seem to be an issue in the newest Pioneer units that started to surface in summer 2005. Can it be fixed? Unknown. While it seems plausible that a firmware fix could correct it, that has yet to happen. Will it break again? N/A. RCA No available information at this time. Do not mistake this to mean "it has no errors". Samsung No available information at this time. Do not mistake this to mean "it has no errors". NOTE! Some Samsung units are merely Panasonic clones. Sanyo Issue: When stopping a recording, the drive may lockup and lose recording (no IFO or other disc structure is completed). How common is it? Common enough to be heard about, but not likely wide-scale. Can it be fixed? Yes. The newest firmware upgrade from Sanyo fixes this. It is available online at their site. Will it break again? No. Firmware corrects it. Sensory Science See Go.Video. Sharp No available information at this time. Do not mistake this to mean "it has no errors". Sony Issue: Bad drives. The Sony burners give out relatively easy, much like the computer ones (they are actually the same drives). How common is it? This is very common. An educated guess of about half of all units is probably pretty accurate (lots of returns on this model, lots of user complaints on the drive inside). Can it be fixed? Yes. New drives can be put in by Sony, or you can do a custom job with a non-Sony drive (results may vary). Will it break again? Yes, if Sony does it. A custom job, using a good burner like Pioneer, will probably not die, at least not prematurely like the stock drives. Toshiba Issue: IRE errors, causing image to be too bright and washed out colors. How common is it? Affects all units, flaw of the unit. Some people claim to not see it, but this is likely due to having a bad IRE on players and using the recorder as the player. Can it be fixed? No, hardware error. Will it break again? N/A Zenith See LG. (template) Issue: How common is it? Can it be fixed? Will it break again? . . ... this is a ever-changing work in progess ... feel free to add to it below ... this is being made a sticky to help avoid common questions about errors and flaws ... Last updated: August 19th 2005 (mini update) | ||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Mar 25 15:57 | ||||
| Just a note about the Panasonics. Even though they say they have a TBC, it is a frame synchronizer. This info came from their engineering dept. I noticed a the JVC combo unit ( I do not recall the model number, price was about $350 ) also says it has a frame synchronizer right on the outside of box. | ||||
| lumis posted 2005 Mar 25 16:02 | ||||
| good to see pioneer isnt on that list, but i didnt figure it would be.. yeah the machines eventually die, but they last a long time and fight to the bitter end.. go pick yourself up a dv-270 ($60 at wally world)..
hopefully pioneer will come out with their mpeg4 dvd player soon (in north america).. to pioneer: make another dvd player exactly like the dv-270, but add mpeg4 support.. you dont have to reinvent the wheel here.. and if you would, make a region/macro hack easy on us :P | ||||
| canadateck posted 2005 Mar 25 18:10 | ||||
| The Problems should be listed as they come in from user's.
You cant set the Law/Myths. You should List the Problems that come from User input. Many Of these Myths that you List,People have had these problems. :) | ||||
| ann coates posted 2005 Mar 25 18:40 | ||||
| The Pioneers actually have a black out bug. At least my Pioneer 520 does and others have complained about it as well on the AVS forum:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=519685 | ||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 Mar 25 18:57 | ||||
- I can and will add myths. Myths are "fake flaws". - This is based heavily on personal research, and backed up by mountains of user complaints. Many submitted to me in the past year, others from verifiable sources. - Not every single "user comment" can be added, as some users have bad luck, are stupid, etc. Some people's complaints are totally invalid. You need only look at the REVIEWS section of this site to see idiots in action. Inversely, some people refuse to acknowledge flaws. I don't have any such bias one way or the other (I don't care that much). If it was my way, every machine would be 100% all the time. | ||||
| canadateck posted 2005 Mar 25 19:06 | ||||
| I hear ya,and do agree there is some bad reviews.
So people having had "the JVC is "too light". That is simply not true." This problem can also be backed up by mountains of user complaints. I like the idea, But I think its flawed when one person holds the key to say this is a Myth and this is Fact. :) | ||||
| trhouse posted 2005 Mar 25 19:36 | ||||
| Perhaps this would work better if it were done like Consumer Reports does its reports on automobiles. Gathering and categorizing the frequency of reported problems. Every report does not have to be accurate but the average would still be statistically meaningful. | ||||
| budz posted 2005 Mar 25 20:23 | ||||
| I have a Pioneer 220-S recorder that doesn't have PICTURE DROP OUT FROM VHS SOURCES. I guess others have had that problem. I've been using mine for about 2 weeks now with no problems so far. I've done VHS & LASERDISC to the 220-S recorder and with no problems so far. I even use a cheapo SONY VHS machine. The video quality is great and for the price of the 220-S it's money well spent for my budget. :) | ||||
| D'oh! posted 2005 Mar 25 20:36 | ||||
| LiteOn (ILO DVDR04):
The Green Tint issue has been solved on the DVDR04 (liteon) and soon to be fixed on the HD unit. ILO-GUY | ||||
| Marvingj posted 2005 Mar 25 21:16 | ||||
| Cyberhome 1500, 1530 have Tray problem & Circuit Board problem, Great picture similar to apex. Firmware upgrade no good.
Gateway 230-r great little performer, but is mono. Who needs that. Sansui is good performer, but has choppy picture after 4 hours. Panasonic E-55 has macroblocks. JVC had Loading Problems. But seem to be fix now Pioneer Super performer No Problem as of yet. Have all the following items, Just my experiences,.... | ||||
| nickyboy4 posted 2005 Mar 25 23:18 | ||||
| I think the JVC problem is a little more widespread and a major problem to cope with on a new purchase, this alone would prevent me from trusting their products.
Overall their reputation grade "B" at best. | ||||
| lumis posted 2005 Mar 25 23:55 | ||||
gotta agree with him there.. i've been using this machine to capture crappy vhs tapes, a couple of LD's & tons of tv (even crappy AOTA).. never had a "black bug" or picture drop out.. i even once did a horribly damaged copy of "young doctors in love" for a friend.. i tried explaining to him that he should just buy the dvd, but he just didnt understand.. but i did get to see some boobs in the movie (merry christmas), so it was okay :P | ||||
| zshepherd posted 2005 Mar 26 00:01 | ||||
| I wanted to offer some specific information that I have experienced regarding the video jitter scenario described on the Liteon boxes. I have a December 2004 manufactured LVW-5005 that is running the updated (1098) firmware and drive updates. In addition, I have applied the "updates" offered by Mr. Wizard version 1.4b. The machine works very well except for the aforementioned video jitter. My experience has been very repeatable, however.
I have the 5005 connected to a SVHS JVC VCR which is in turn connected to my receiver. This allows me to select input of my choice as the record output from the receiver to the 5005. Generally, this is either my Tivo DVR or my DVD player. I have the VCR in line so that I could likewise record to the 5005 from the VCR or to the VCR from one of my other sources. Recording from either DVD or Tivo DVR works flawlessly and the video transfer is fantastic. Herein lies the problem. If I try to record from a VHS tape, the video jitter is consistent both in viewing the source through the 5005 and recording it. Macrovision is not supposed to be an issue because I am not trying to record copy protected material and of course because of the additional firmware update referenced above. When I stop the VCR, the video reverts to the pass through source but now with the video jitter. If I follow the workaround of cycling through the input sources, it will go away. This takes place on all inputs, not just the rear S-video that I primarly use. This is very disturbing because one primary purpose of this box is to burn our favorite VHS tapes to DVD. Any additional information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! | ||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 Mar 26 00:17 | ||||
Go read the first post again. I have added issue (4) to the LiteOn list, which covers overheating problems, which often directly relates to the jitter issues. Good luck! This fixed my LiteOn 5001, and has helped many other people too. | ||||
| zshepherd posted 2005 Mar 26 12:09 | ||||
| Thanks very much for the prompt reply! I may try the fan and the air exit holes first. I'm curious, though. Do you have any thoughts as to why I only experience the jitter on the VCR source? I've had no trouble whatsoever when using the pass through sources from my receiver that are going through the VCR to the 5005. This prompted my initial concern that maybe this was some residual MV issue since it was specific to the VCR source.
Thanks again for this response and for compiling the overall list. This will be very helpful for people because choosing the right recorder is much more complex than people realize because all of the various quirks. Regards, Zane | ||||
| rkr1958 posted 2005 Mar 26 13:08 | ||||
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| nelson133 posted 2005 Mar 26 14:57 | ||||
| While I have limited experience with dvdrecorders, i helped set up one and got the past the learning curve, i would be very reluctant to put much faith in what is written here as long as it's primarily Lord Smurf's opinion.
I do have years of experience with the Canopus100 box and AMD based computers, both of which are consistently trashed by Lord Smurf. My experience has shown me he's just dead wrong and seems to be unwilling to let the facts get in the way of a good opinion. I just wouldn't be willing to trust him not to let the same thing to happen in his dvd recorder brand preference. Nyah Levi | ||||
| DaveS posted 2005 Mar 26 15:23 | ||||
| My Sony RDR-GX7 drive has not failed since I have had the machine. And, I use it regularly. So, 100% non-failure in a sample size of 1.
Estimating that 50% of all thse drives are or will be bad, with no data to back that up, seems to be a stretch. | ||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 Mar 26 16:22 | ||||
Not at all. This is merely a summarized list of errors. And since you have admitted this is not your area of expertise, I fail to see how you can make any kind of comment in this direction. Again, these are ALL backed up by extensive lists of tests, user complaints, etc. This is a simplified/edited list of errors, so people are not just lost, guessing, or weeding through piles of reviews, posts, google search, etc. Anybody that has researched these machines, and not going off THEIR ONE MACHINE and THEIR ONE EXPERIENCE will see this is truly representative of the bigger picture. A very disturbing and unpleasant picture, I might add. The fact that consumers have to deal with so many crappy machines is almost disgusting. | ||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 Mar 26 16:30 | ||||
I see jitter mostly from S-VHS-ET personally, and then cable signal from tuner next. Rarely at any other time, from any other connection. I finally gave in to suggestions from others online and propped open the lid and boosted the fan speed to max last week. Before that, I had heatsink, fan on medium, lid closed with drilled holes. The new changes have allowed for less jitter. At the time, I was doing 13 VHS transfers. They jittered nonstop prior to propping the lid and boosting fan speed. After the changes, I was able to do all 13 in a row, over a 3-day period. Zero problems, very nice. So, I think that answers your question. Yes, doing all that has resulted in a very marked improvement here, for VHS sources. My exact setup is JVC 3800 -> SIMA SED-CM -> LITEON 5001 The SIMA was mostly so I could drop colors to pure B&W on the B&W tapes. I use the SIMA just in general, because it seems to stabilize the signal slightly, which is great. This custom job "voids your warranty" but since LiteOn cannot fix it anyway, the warranty is totally worthless in my eyes. Some toolshop engineering is what fixed my machine, so break out the powertools! Drill and hacksaw, and under $25-30 in parts from a computer parts store (like Fry's). The heatsink on the LSI is probably one of the most important things to be done. Don't skip that one. The chip is super hot and needs heat dispersion. Desperately. | ||||
| joeg04 posted 2005 Mar 29 07:19 | ||||
I never read complains about a grainy picture at Philips DVD recorders before. Only about a too soft picture due to too much noise filtering. "Grainy" doesn't sounds for me as an MPEG coding problem. More as an analog problem like recording from a weak analog antenna signal or via a cheap and not properly shielded SCART cable. Are you sure the input signal was O.K.? | ||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 Mar 29 14:41 | ||||
| You can record a perfect signal with the unit, and it spits out a grainy image. Yes. Major flaw. | ||||
| tb33 posted 2005 Mar 29 20:59 | ||||
| Lordsmurf, I've been thinking about getting a stand alone dvd recorder can you one recommend one? | ||||
| budz posted 2005 Mar 29 21:23 | ||||
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| lordsmurf posted 2005 Mar 30 17:07 | ||||
JVC and Pioneer are my two top preferences. Followed by LiteOn, Sanyo, LG and Emerson. | ||||
| tb33 posted 2005 Mar 31 18:27 | ||||
| Thanks. :D | ||||
| cal_tony posted 2005 Mar 31 20:45 | ||||
| Lordsmurf
thank you very much for your efforts on this topic | ||||
| tb33 posted 2005 Apr 02 15:25 | ||||
| Thanks Budz. I spotted the Pioneer 220-S at walmart for about $198.00. It's tops on my list. After your review of it, I think I'll pick it up today. | ||||
| oldfart13 posted 2005 Apr 02 17:16 | ||||
| No reviews of the new Sony? Not enough $$ to buy one to test out and return? What will happen when the new Blu-Ray units are out? Probably no reviews from this site... | ||||
| budz posted 2005 Apr 02 19:37 | ||||
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| oldfart13 posted 2005 Apr 02 21:24 | ||||
| The Sony I could test but it's already been done at avsforums. Ditto on the new Panasonic DVD recorder. I could do the Sony unit as my friends own the in-town dealership. I could do other higher end units providing they come in as friends own those stores in town. My "Oldfart" moniker isn't just for show you know... | ||||
| pinetop posted 2005 Apr 20 22:06 | ||||
| I've had my Sony RDR-GX7 for a little over a month now. I use it a few times a day, so far flawless. I hope the 50% drive failure is just an opinion/guess. | ||||
| spectroelectro posted 2005 Apr 28 01:29 | ||||
| JVC, LiteOn and Sanyo would be my top choices. However I have gotten some discs from Sanyo DVD recorders which, while excellent in video quality, tend to have reading/ripping problems similar the kind of occasional read/rip problems many folks have noted with Pansonic DVDs. IMHO any kind of problem where a DVD recorders spits out discs that will play but not read or rip properly, so the disc can't be copied or ripped, is unacceptable. Even if it only happens occasionally. This has never happened to me with a disc burned in a JVC or LiteOn DVD recorder but has happened with both Pannies and Sanyos, and is endemic on the Maggotbox -- excuse me, Magnavox.
One quibble: the "loading" error on the JVC is hardly fatal. I've got it and as long as I leave the JVC unplugged overnight, it's never an issue. Only if the JVC runs for more than about 14 hours straight does it show up at all in my experience. Of course YMMV. | ||||
| vonnieglen posted 2005 May 08 08:40 | ||||
| Many, many thanks to Lord Smurf for his excellent work on this topic. There is nothing more frustrating than having a problem with a product and then spending hours trying to find first whether others have had a similar experience and second what can be done about it. Having a list such as this must have already saved many persons an incalculable amount of time and frustration. Lord Smurf has an unequalled breadth of knowledge on video capture and he tells it as he sees it with no apologies. I feel very fortunate that he continues to be willing to spend his time helping those of us who lurk here in the forums. | ||||
| stevec50 posted 2005 Jun 08 19:59 | ||||
| Besides the fix for Apex 9000 recorders there is a fix for Cyberhome 1500, 1500C 1530 and 2500 models now also. Please see the website for more information. http://www.drx9000repair.netfirms.com | ||||
| KeepItSimple posted 2005 Jun 26 03:15 | ||||
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| lordsmurf posted 2005 Jun 26 05:38 | ||||
This thread is about identifying flaws, and maybe learning how to fix them. Not bitching about them being there to begin with. If you want to rant, start a new thread. | ||||
| KeepItSimple posted 2005 Jun 26 06:42 | ||||
| Ok will do Mr. Smurf. My "bitch" was about paying some guy somewhere for the fix.
Peace. | ||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 Jun 26 07:08 | ||||
Well, Apex refuses to fix units (or outright ignores you), and Cyberhome does not do it correctly. So it's good that a few handy people in-the-know will fix them for people who would otherwise be stuck with a large and expensive paperweight. | ||||
| vhelp posted 2005 Jun 26 08:13 | ||||
| Why not just take them into a fixer-upper (serviceman) if you can't
get one fixed ?? But, would probably be cheaper to get another cheaper unit :lol: oh yea. Good list LS. Forgot to commend you :P -vhelp 3408 | ||||
| Marvingj posted 2005 Jun 26 10:57 | ||||
| My friend has a Sony Gx-300 it has Macroblocks. I think this a first for Sony, Usually it has bad drives but its offical it has the same problem as Panasonic. I try to look at Sony more expensive model to see if this just a GX-300 problem or all Sonys. | ||||
| non-linear posted 2005 Jul 06 23:04 | ||||
| I've noticed that the Panasonic E85 units have audio sync problems with cutting parts of video out of a title, or splitting a title. The problem doesn't appear when playing the video from the drive, but when ripping to my computer (I do it with DVD-RAM discs), anything that had parts cut out or if a title was split seems to be out of sync. Not sure if anyone else has seen this problem before. | ||||
| parallax1 posted 2005 Jul 07 03:14 | ||||
And the fix does work. I had Steve fix mine. No problems since and now it works like it should have all along. | ||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 Jul 07 06:33 | ||||
This is related to it's AC3 problem. All kind of hell break loose when you try to edit Panasonic-made audio files. Sync issues, as well as drop-outs, even complete loss of parts of the AC3 track. | ||||
| Marvingj posted 2005 Jul 13 11:04 | ||||
| Welll, I have Evaluated Toshiba DR-2 & Dk2-r. THE GOOD: Toshiba picture is Great second to JVC. It has all kind of neat toys like DNR, TBC (line), Black level adjustment & white Levels. Has a Manual that in a least a inch thick. Lots of neat things to adjusted. THE BAD: has Once Copy Protection ( Can not copy off of HBO etc. with some kind of video stabilizer). I haven't found a Black Bug issue. Does Not like ant DVD's . Very Picky. Will only accept Ridata, panasonic . If you copy with any other it will definitely be a coaster. Only will read DVD-, DVD-rw & Ram. But only certain Disc. Very Picky. NO Hacks or firmware upgrade at all. Plays DVD-Video Movies excellent. Does extremely well with dubbing a VHS or Hi-8 tapes when you have a Video stabilizer or TBC to take out the Marco. Overall its a very good model but . will never defear JVC or Pioneer. Better build than Lite on. | ||||
| compuser posted 2005 Jul 23 21:09 | ||||
| I am just wondering, I have been doing some test recordings from a iLO DVDR04 ... On playback (on a different DVD player) there seems be some random white lines (verrry light though) that appears in the upper third of the video... Has anyone else had this problem or is this just this unit or a brand thing? | ||||
| compuser posted 2005 Jul 25 11:23 | ||||
| Just thought that I would post an update... I hooked up my JVC VCR to the recorder and used its' tuner, and the quality level went way up... I am thinking that the tuner on the iLo isn't all that great... | ||||
| RNR1995 posted 2005 Aug 04 10:06 | ||||
| I have a Philips DVDR600VR/37 that is quite impressive to me. The picture quality is outstanding I have no idea what product was tested but my images are perfect, not grainy. If I do encounter any defects I will come back here and let you all know. I am a heavy user, so if this thing sucks I will know it. | ||||
| dstuck posted 2005 Aug 10 19:55 | ||||
| Yes, noble Lord Smurf... it is a valuble service you give all us Recorder fans... great info here.
I too fall victim to the Pioneer "drop-out" curse with my DVR-510H (for which I sold my previous deck, the Panasonic DMR-E80H -- probably a mistake). The Pioneer is extremely finicky about VHS tapes... any tape that has less than a first-generation "signal" - however well it plays on other machines - jumps and "blanks"... it's almost as if the Pioneer thinks the tape has macrovision... A tech at Pioneer told me that they were aware of the problem, but had no plans (he knew of) of a fix. Since this is the main reason I bought a recorder, this is unfortunate... the standalone recorder is so much less work-intensive than burning on a computer... From your list, it looks as thought JVC is the least error-prone... maybe I'll pick one of those up. I can't take this Pioneer any more. Thanks, Dave | ||||
| ann coates posted 2005 Aug 18 23:24 | ||||
| dstuck, I had the same problem with my Pioneer 520 which I returned. The problem appears to be resolved on the new Pioneer line. I picked up a Pioneer 531 from Walmart and using the same tapes my Pioneer 520 choked on everything seems fine. So far at least.
I also have a Panasonic E85 which does a great job on video tapes, but I prefer the Pioneer overall for recording. The new line has better PQ as well. | ||||
| dstuck posted 2005 Aug 19 18:03 | ||||
| Thanks Ann -- this is good to know.
I don't know why I didn't catch this deficiency in time to return it, but I didn't... I will be trying something else as this problem is driving me nuts... maybe I'll try a new Pioneer... thanks again, Dave | ||||
| Cyrax9 posted 2005 Aug 22 13:41 | ||||
| Here's one courtesy of a friend who bought the "Wal*Mart special" AKA the giant red flags for DVD Recorders...
Sanpo Issue: (1) Does not burn 8X DVD-Rs (even at 1X-4X speeds,) (2)does not read burnt 8X Discs from other machines, set-top or PC. How common is it? Very. According what I was told, a phone call to the company will get you a "Sorry, our machines don't handle 8X Discs, please buy 1X-4X blank media only." response. Can it be fixed? Unknown, I don't have one to dissect and rebuild. Will it break again? Unknown, but unless a magic firmware upgrade is released, yes. NOTE: This is the first I've heard of any recorders choking on 8X Discs, even my Panasonic recorders don't have this type of issue, as for the Macroblocking, I only notice it when fast forwarding or recording in anything under SP Mode which is basically a "Garbage Mode" anyway. (I have a DMR-HS2 and a DMR-E500HS but I've never seen the IRE issue or it's replacement, even on PC Drives and Sony units, screenshots of the symptoms would be nice.) With all the chaos surrounding DVD Recorders, one would think it'd be easier to "build your own" in an HTPC case and cannibalize any parts needed from another model. | ||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 Aug 22 15:34 | ||||
| The newer 8x-12x-16x media are a large problem for many, many, many DVD recorders. Most of the drives currently out there are 2x and 4x drives with old firmware.
Pioneer, JVC, Panasonic, .... everybody... all have it. Although this is a RANDOM ERROR and often depends on the media you're using. | ||||
| oldfart13 posted 2005 Aug 22 21:06 | ||||
| "This is related to it's AC3 problem. All kind of hell break loose when you try to edit Panasonic-made audio files. Sync issues, as well as drop-outs, even complete loss of parts of the AC3 track. "
Is this on the recorder or on a computer via the DVD-RAM? I edit on the unit and burn to DVD every day and I can detect no sync or AC-3 errors...but then, I only use playlists and don't use the "shorten segment" feature. On the computer, I do hundreds of discs every month for people here in town with no complaints. Must be I have one of those gem units that has no flaws (like all those U99 errors I'm supposed to be having) or else everyone has poor hearing and vision when it comes to the discs I make. I must remember to check out all those flaws on my friend's 102" projector with next week's batch of Sci Fi shows... And I do audio discs, converting AC-3 audio from music channels to Mp3 to play in my car. I've had no problems with ripping the audio or converting the audio at all. I guess I've been pretty lucky these last 22 months, no? | ||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 Aug 23 01:10 | ||||
| The errors are random. However, the AC3 issue is related to computer use, when you attempt to re-encode the audio to anything else. The A3 files are flawed. If you have none of these issues on your unit, yes, you're lucky. Go knock on some wood right this minute. | ||||
| Cyrax9 posted 2005 Aug 24 04:20 | ||||
I might do that right now LOL! ;) I haven't had the AC3 issue on the DMR-E500HS although the HS2 was quite capable of making it noticable. The solutionw as to "ofset"the audio in VDUB and usually re-encode it, sometimes to a WAV File first if need be. It's been fairly fixable. SP Mode seems to make pixelation harder to notice than any of the others, LP and under are going to be garbage regardless, for pixelation in SP Mode it's usually microblocking around the corners of images, it looks like something a TBC could fix but I could be wrong, very rare and on occasion just the station that's on. I had a Cable company that had macroblocking issues of a Panasonic Recorder in EP Mode-- I switched to a DBS Provider and that eliminated 99.9% of the "flaws" (Remember, Garbage In=Garbage Out.) Have not had any HDD Failures, I did pop open a DMR-HS2 once and noticed it was using a Hitachi HDD IIRC and it looked like a decent model, I haven't popped open the E500 but with 400GB worth of space I'm wondering if it has multiple HDDs and if they're using RAID-0 which would be a good way to loose data. I think the worst issue has been poor quality blank media, namely the dreaded CMC/Princo issues, these will usually shut the recorder down enitrely and Memorex can be just as bad, everything else seems to work well though. As an interesting experiment I threw a load of 8X DVD-Rs at two Panasonics, they handled these very well, I've yet to see 16X or higher but I can't complain about Panasonic's ability to handle whatever blank media is readily available, especially Maxell. I'm trying Taiyo Yuden next for high quality media. I have had a U99 error on an HS2 DVD-RAM drive, I'd like to get this fixed as the drive no longer reads cartridge-type DVD-RAMs but I don't know weather to call Panasonic or to see if someone around here is working on a fix. Also, one more flaw for Panasonic: If you should be lucky enough to have a unit with MPEG-4 recording capabilites, note that the format used is *.ASF and that these are not easy to edit. (ASFTools had trouble reading them!) -- In addition to using a Microsoft Proprietary format, 90% of these *.ASFs are corrupt or damaged in some way and are all at a 320sx240 (VHS/VCD) Resolution. The "MPEG-4 gimmic" isn't worth the extra money IMO unless the recorder has another feature you use and should not be a deciding factor in your purchase. (Windows Media Encoder even choked on the ASFs I threw at it.) Has anyone "networked" the DMR-E500HS line of recorders? I'm curious to see if these have networking errors as I don't feel like attempting to tie my recorder into my PC although it could do some good. I'm just curious about networking errors on this model as I don't know if any other's have this "feature" that seems somewhat pointless. | ||||
| dstuck posted 2005 Aug 25 13:51 | ||||
Well, I've been trying out the Lite-On LVW 5045 (owing to the no-problem return policy at Costco)... the video sync/blanking/flagging problems from the Pioneer have certainly vanished -- the first thing I x-ferred and burned was one of my worst "dub-of-a-dub" tapes (a 60's TV show) with no problems. However, like you, there are so many things about the Pioneer interface/options that I love. The Lite-on requires you to delve into the system to perform simple things like creating chapter marks -- also, it appears to me that you can't delete chapters (i.e. remove comm'ls), only "hide" them... you would have to 'split' every commercial, then delete to really get ride of unwanted material. Furthermore, since there is no backward 'frame advance', only forward -- the marking of split points or chapters is that much harder. And the remote button access is sooo tiny... Pioneer has all this beat, hands down... Which leads me to my last question, Ann -- you mentioned you had no problems with the newer Pioneer, the '531'. I can't find this model anywhere, including Wal-mart. Are we talking about the DVR 533H-S? If so, Wal-mart must not carry it any longer, at least on their website... thanks a bunch, Dave | ||||
| ann coates posted 2005 Aug 26 17:46 | ||||
| Hi Dave,
I have the Pioneer 531 - 80 gig hard drive, it's a Walmart only model that they're selling for 337.00. I bought it in store, not off their website. Maybe your Walmart just doesn't have it in yet? The Pio 533 is exactly the same as the 531 except the 533 has dv in. You might have an easier time finding the 533. One important note about the Pioneer 53x line, they have (surprisingly) removed the chapter mark button so if this is a feature you use a lot via the remote you might want to reconsider the purchase. Now you have to do this via the chapter edit menu which I actually prefer. See this thread at the avs board for more info on this: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=571891&highli ... pter+marks Other than that (and it also includes the TV guide feature, dont know how you feel about that) it's an excellent recorder, I love it. Good luck! :) | ||||
| dstuck posted 2005 Aug 29 18:35 | ||||
Hi Ann -- Thanks for posting back... I had only looked for the 531 online, since there's no Wal-mart in my vicinity... then as luck would have it, I was running an errand Saturday about 45 minutes from here and ran across a store... they had one 531 left, so I bought it... so far I like it... still trying to see the benefit of moving the chapter mark to the edit menu (especially since I don't use the TV Guide function!). Also, it looks like the step forward/back button advances more than one frame - is that correct? Is it just due to being in VR edit mode? I don't remember this being an issue with the 520. All that aside, it works well capturing from VHS, so I think I'm gonna stick with this one... thanks for the recommendation! | ||||
| ann coates posted 2005 Sep 04 19:14 | ||||
It does advance more than one frame, yes. The Pioneer recorders are not as accurate as, for instance, the Panasonic recorders for editing as the Panasonic's include all frames and still allow you to use high speed dubbing. The only way you can get that kind of accuracy on the Pioneer is to use VR mode, which isn't really a good option in most cases. What I've come to learn from trying many different recorders this past year is for every few positives one recorder may have, there's also a negative to deal with. Ultimately PQ has to be the most important factor and the 531 has really good PQ. Glad it's doing a good job on your VHS tapes. :) | ||||
| dstuck posted 2005 Sep 05 02:39 | ||||
Boy, you're right -- and I guess that's the gist of this topic forum anyway -- they've all got negatives! What I was surprised about was that the 520 advanced by single frames by default ... the 531 gives you the option only via the lesser-preferable VR mode. Sheesh -- it's always something! Thanks for all your help, Dave | ||||
| Bondiablo posted 2005 Sep 10 19:52 | ||||
| The fatal flaws for the lite on 5045 seem to vary by manufacture date. I've tried 4 of these recorders now and for both manufactured in January 2005 sometimes defragmenting the hard drive would corrupt recordings making them unplayable and both manufactured in February would record timer recordings for the wrong day. | ||||
| lordsmurf posted 2005 Sep 10 20:54 | ||||
That's pretty much a general flaw of all HDD recorders. Fragmentation and general hard drive issues found on computers are compounded on DVD recorders because the machines lack diagnostic software like you find on a computer (things like Norton Utilities). Timers are also fairly unreliable on every single DVD recorder I've ever tested. This is why I still use my trusty S-VHS machines to record backups for times when the DVD recorder fails to properly follow through. I see complaint reports for these kinds of issues pretty much weekly. I think it sucks, and it obviously needs to improve. For everybody. | ||||
| Bondiablo posted 2005 Sep 17 19:38 | ||||
| I can't speak to the problems with the January version but it seems they may have finally fixed the timer problems of the February version with the 201 firmware. When I noticed it, it wasn't on the US website or available for all regions yet but now it seems to be everywhere, except Australia.
http://www.liteonit.com/DC/english/download.htm | ||||
| mavenickster posted 2005 Sep 24 05:42 | ||||
| I'm going to buy Pioneer DVR-530... I hope it doesn't have any flaws!! I do hope!!! | ||||
| ejfudd posted 2005 Nov 01 16:46 | ||||
| A workaround for Panasonic error 6 (dubbing to dvd-r fails): I have encountered this error a number of times on my e85 unit. It always traces back to a problem with one video title on the dubbing list. The first title not transfered to the dvd-r is always the bad one. I fix the bad video title by dubbing in XP,SP, or LP to a dvd-ram disc. The new copy always works fine. | ||||
| sanlyn posted 2005 Nov 02 07:02 | ||||
| lordsmurf, thanx for your many efforts in so many areas. Add fan and tuner noise to the Panasonic DMR-ES20 (I don't know if it's on other models, I didn't try them). Tuner has residual static "simmer" at all times, seen on dimly lighted scenes and on a VCR's blue-screen or menus. Also seen are intermittent, horizontal floating gray RF bars, similar to those seen on some cable stations. Most evident when ES20 boots up. I returned 2 ES20's, the 3rd from another store had the same noise. Sometimes you can wait a few minutes for the bars to clear up, but they come back later. | ||||
| Leoslocks posted 2005 Nov 23 10:16 | ||||
| Pioneer DVR 633H-S EPG noise. This I conseder a serious defect if used in the sleeping area. Manufactured September 2005, purchased at Wal Mart (online as no Pioneer DVR's were on the shelves).
The hard drive access sounds like a teletype machine or perhaps a motorized toy car constantly changing direction. The fact that the EPG function can not be (easily) turned off after initial setup is disturbing.
[Edit] This resets the machine[/Edit] How about this, "EPG CAN TAKE AS LITTLE AS 24 HOURS TO COMPLETE ITS INITIAL DOWNLOAD PHASE OR POSSIBLY A WEEK DEPENDING ON HOW MANY CHANNELS YOU HAVE IN YOUR AREA AND ALSO HOW OFTEN THE INITIAL DOWNLOAD IS INTERRUPTED." | ||||
| colt4523 posted 2005 Dec 09 00:31 | ||||
| Well it looks like my pioneer-220 suffers from picture drop-out from VHS sources. So this "fatal flaw" does exist. I just noticed this problem today when I was actually paying attention to what I was dubbing. I originally thought it was my vhs tapes but upon rewinding the tape and playing back the exact same spot, nothing would happen. I am petrified to see if all my dvds I converted have this loss of signal :(
I have converted around 100 of my tapes and really never paid too much attention to the screen as they were dubbed until today. Hopefully, I can get it repaired for free at least. I bought it at walmart in March, so it should still be under warranty. I will give pioneer a call and see what happens. | ||||
| tluxon posted 2005 Dec 11 19:44 | ||||
| What are the "fatal flaws" of the Sony RDR-VX515? Are the DL+R capable drives "bad" like the earlier models? | ||||
| Leoslocks posted 2006 Jan 01 14:41 | ||||
| Pioneer 633H
Utilizing the Canadian Zip Code to disable the the EPG. An issue that is reoccuring is the DVR starts Auto Reprograming the Channels (for Antena) after schedueling a timer recording. This Auto Programing of the Channels may start after using the Home Menu to adjust the settings or after exiting the Disc Navigator. It will start just about every time if the TV Guide button on the remote is pressed. As the Home Menu and TV Guide buttons are so close together, I assumed I had inadvertantly hit the TV Guide and initiated this headache. (Reprograming the channels for cable's 125 channels takes minutes). I recognize not that using the Return button to exit the Home Menu and Disc Navigator keeps this from happening most of the time. Again, I consider the EPG disfunction of the 633 to be a Serious Flaw. | ||||
| ann coates posted 2006 Jan 25 22:45 | ||||
I do too, very much so. I disabled my EPG because I just couldn't stand the constant (virtually non-stop) noise, drove me nuts. And I have mine in my living room, I can't believe someone could use this machine in their bedroom. I use a Panasonic in my bedroom with the EPG and it's whisper quiet. So having to disable to EPG has been a serious disappointment for me on the Pioneer because I would really like to use the EPG, but can't. So, I agree, it's definitely a fatal flaw. | ||||
| Faustus posted 2006 Feb 05 11:23 | ||||
| Friend says his Samsung DVD-R120 don't read his Ritek disk. So I guess that kinda sucks.
Wouldn't have been an issue if he had switched to TYs when I told him they were cheap enough to start buying. | ||||
| lordsmurf posted 2006 Feb 05 16:33 | ||||
Ritek media has a very low reflectivity. Even when they play in players, they often choke when you try to FF-PLAY the content at 2x, 4x, 8x, etc. This is one of many reasons why RITEK is, and always has been, a mediocre quality disc. | ||||
| Reed32 posted 2006 Feb 06 12:28 | ||||
| Wow, this particular thread has been a life saver!!!
After the sad demise of my ILO R04 back in December (which was an EXCELLENT machine, it did everything I wanted!!!), I did some research to try to find a good replacement for a similar amount of cash. I found that the ILO R05 was just not going to cut it, so I started researching the Lite On boxes. Low and behold, the LVW-5005 appeard to be the answer to my quest! Same interface, same features, and more! And with a little work, you could get three hour record mode as well, just as you can with the R04! The feedback I read seemed very favorable, so it appeared to be the one. As the commercial says "Brilliant!" I ordered it quickly from Egg.com, and even did next day shipping (I can be an impatient cat, I can't help it). When I got it, it seemed to work great! There did appear to be a little jitter with harder video sources, but that was rectified with the use of a Sima CT-200 Video Signal Processor. All appeared well with the world. But then I tried to use anything over 2 hour speed. You see, I'm working to convert some old vhs source auto races over to DVD before the source tapes detriorate any further. As anyone who either is a race fan or has suffered through a race (trying to cover both bases here), the majority of events run in excess of 3 to 4 hours. My target speed has always been no more than 4 hours to get the best picture quality. My old ILO did very well with these, unless it was a poor video source. On a good clean source, which most of these are, it would do very well, with only an occasionally "jitter". But not the Lite On. It seems as soon as I told it 3 or 4 hours, the jitter would begin. I couldn't figure it out, it was driving me nuts. So I came here and read up on LordSmurf's recommendations. Now I think I have the answer! Popping the case and running a desk fan across the unit in an experimental stage seems to help some, but not completely. So this weekend, a friend and I will be doing some "meatball surgery" on my Magic Box, following the advice that LordSmurf so graciously provided in this thread. We're going to add a heatsink to the main processor, as well as adding ventilation holes, and a 2nd cooling fan. We may even try to use the fan from my old ILO R04, as it seemed to do a much better cooling job than the LVW-5005's does. Just wanted to say thanks for the info, LordSmurf. I'm not a highly technical guy, though I can find my way around a computer's guts when I need to. The heat problem would never have occured to me without your advice in this thread, and it hopefully will save me more grief with this set up. I do have one quick question, and this is just because I'm a newbie......but then, we all were at one point in time......what power source did you use for your 2nd fan? Is there an addition power source on the board, or did you "hotwire" one? The person that's helping me feels he has everything else figured out, but we were discussing the size, type and power source for the fan as I work to get parts together. Thanks again, and I'll be happy to let everyone know how it goes once it's done. | ||||
| Cyrax9 posted 2006 Apr 03 00:07 | ||||
| Panasonic
Issue: 16:9 W-I-D-E-S-C-R-E-E-N images are matted to a "letterboxed" 4:3 480i image of 704x480 instead of maintaining their OAR of 16:9 even if the recorder is set to playback videos letterboxed in 16:9 (rather than 4:3 Pan & Scan.) How common is it? It affects every unit to my knowledge; Panasonic acknowledges it in the owners manual with a statement along the lines of "All recordings will be in 4:3 even if they were originally broadcast in 16:9." I have yet to see a Panasonic recorder without this "disclaimer" despite the fact that it can play back 16:9 discs correctly. (Just set to letterbox for correct playback of pre-recorded DVD-Video discs.) This also affects any Firewire dubs you may make from a 16:9 DV/MiniDV source tape. Can it be fixed? No. Panasonic has designed their recorders to only record in 4:3 and it doesn't look like that's going to change anytime soon. Unless Panasonic releases a firmware upgrade (talked about, but never actually done,) there will be no way to fix this. Will it break again? Unless Panasonic releases a firmware upgrade (they referance the possibility of such an upgrade in the HS2 and E500HS manuals, but they've never released one,) there's no fix for this. It's not noticable on a 4:3 TV Set either, but play a video back on a 16:9 set and you'll see the issue. Related myths: (1) The video is still 16:9, it's just letterboxed. This is false; load a 16:9 video file recorded on a Panasonic DVD Recorder into VDUB and you'll get a 4:3 image with black bars at the top and bottom; true 16:9 won't show the "matting" when imported into an editing program; the 16:9 image is being recorded as 4:3 and being letterboxed during recording. There are supposedly recorders that do record 16:9 and don't matte to 4:3 so I consider this an Aspect Ratio flaw. (2) The recorder isn't maintaining the original AR on 4:3 videos because it's recording at 704x480. Search the Restoration forum for a thread on why this is 4:3; 720x480 is "padded" on the sides of most videos from television which are shot in 704x480 for 4:3; edDV has an excellent post on why this is done. NOTE: I consider this a flaw much like the IRE bug; if we're going to count the inability to record an IRE setting of 0 (vs 7.5) as a "bug" than the "matting" of a 16:9 video should also be considered an error since real 16:9 DVDs will display as 16:9 on a 16:9 TV Set and not matted 4:3. This error wasn't so annoying early on but as more and more shows are being shot in 16:9 I think this should qualify as an "error" much the way the IRE bug does. At least the IRE bug doesn't appear to affect my DMR-E500 or DMR-HS2 on certain players, but it's definitely noticable on others. I might attempt to "fix" it by running it through vDub and correcting the IRE there but I've yet to try it. | ||||
| Cyrax9 posted 2006 Apr 03 00:26 | ||||
Are there any good "quick-fix" re-encodes for the AC-3 audio that can sometimes fix the problem? (e.g. re-encode to a *.WAV file?) I can usually get around this but if it's a really annoying file sometimes the only way to "fix" the issue is to re-sync the A/V by running the audio in through Red/White "analog" inputs and then using an NLE to piece everything back together. This seems to be a rare error on my recordings and is usually easy to fix; the biggest issue is the use of 8X dubbing mode on recorders that have it which seems to add to the AC-3 problem. If you're using a Panasonic with 8X dubbing mode (to DVD-R,) shut it OFF. The problem is in the file itself and usually requires some sort of fix. I have one sitting on my PC right now with an AC-3 issue and I'm going to try some fixes, I'd like to try a freeware program before I lug out the 20' cable that I use to do Analog pass-through or capturing with when the original digital file won't work. You'd think this list would at least have a few complaints headed to the BBB but I don't see anyone filing them. There ought to be a "lemon law" on electronics the way there is on cars; if we're acting as "consumer reports" for DVD Recorders someone ought to pitch the idea of a "lemon law" for electronics to the government. Question #2: What's the problem with a DVD Recorder's timer record function LordSmurf? I've been using DVD Recorders like VCRs for four years now and I've yet to have a timer recording not record or cause a major problem. Is this common among a specific brand, model, or type of DVD Recorder, or just more common than it was on VHS and S-VHS? I timer everything and I've never had a problem; then again, I also set everything to add five minutes on each end in case of a mistake and I have the clock constantly synched to the one on The Weather Channel so maybe that has something to do with the problems, but I don't know. | ||||
| lordsmurf posted 2006 Apr 03 01:09 | ||||
| #1 Toss it into Womble MPEG Video Wizard (import file, drag it to timeline), and then re-encode the audio to MP2 real quick (export video). That does it, maybe takes 5 minutes for a 30-minute clip, on a 2Ghz CPU. The new MP2 audio will be just fine.
#2 The problem is a lot of them just don't work. If you've been using Panasonic timers for all this time, then you have one of the ones that tends to work most of the time (but still not flawless, the HDD models crap out a lot). They're getting better, slowly. The latest JVC DR-M100S has a very nice timer, for example. | ||||
| Cyrax9 posted 2006 Apr 03 16:32 | ||||
Since you mentioned the JVC DR-M100S, what do you know about the JVC DR-DX5S and the timer recording on that machine? I'm looking at using a JVC DR-DX5S while I'm away at college next year and my four main concerns are: 1. Is the HDD Reliable? 2. Is the MiniDV Deck (SP Mode) good enough for a quick dub from/to MiniDV to/from the HDD and then to a PC? Assume that the output will also be to a DV Tape (with better equipment.) -- I do intend to use this deck and the six-way dubbing feature with it though. 3. Is the timer one of the more reliable ones? This is how all of my TV-recordings will be done, the same way I use my Panasonic, I need a recorder with a reliable timer, at least on par with the Panasonic machines. 4. Does it record 16:9 correctly, or does it do what Panasonic does and "matte" it to 4:3LB so that when you play the video back on a 16:9 TV you get a bizzare Windowboxed--not letterboxed--windowboxed image that puts a "black frame" around your entire video? I'm just curious since JVC seems to have the fewest known "fatal flaws" and Panasonic has a list that makes me think most of the machines are going to need headstones if it expands. Any info is appreciated. Also, what brands and models are known to have the fewest fatal flaws that have been found? I know there are plenty of "flawed but unknown where" recorders, but I'm looking for recorders where the flaw/flaws is/are known. My favorite on this list has to be the Apex units; "May cause fires." I'd like to see how many people would buy them if they were forced to stick that on the box at the store. Then again, I wouldn't touch Apex after reading about what happened to their CEO several months back. Between Sony bungling everything they touch, and Panasonic's list of flaws being as long as their list of features, JVC seems like the best choice for a new recorder out of the brand-name camp, but I want to make sure that a $1300 machine doesn't have "fatal flaws" that are so inexcusable that they turn the thing into a $1300 dollar luxury doorstop. Also I don't think I saw it listed, but the "XP Mode" Panasonic flaw should be on that list. (Bitrate too high to play in most other units.) This isn't so much a Panasonic "flaw" as it is a flaw on behalf of other brands, but it's still a problem if you decide to stick an XP Mode disc into another player and get a lovely "unreadable disc" error because of bitrate issues. | ||||
| lordsmurf posted 2006 Apr 03 17:14 | ||||
| The JVC always had a good timer, but the situation was more complicated. On the first generation JVC machines, the way to avoid "loading" errors was to turn off (or was it turn on, I forget) the power save setting. Doing this prevented the timer from working. That's really all there was too it. These days, 2nd and 3rd generation JVCs, there is no "loading" and you can use the timer just fine, no worries. It should be the same on all JVC units.
So far, the JVC DR-M100S appears to be the most flawless. If you want to get really sniggly about things, the IRE may be off a half step or so, but nowhere near the +7 variance some people would like you to believe (especially the anti-JVC whiners). Pioneer's current generation got worse rather than better, so they gave up the opportunity at that spot (EPG and 3-hour Full D1). Toshiba loses from false copy protection that is easily the worse I've ever seen at falsely seeing anti-copy, even from cable and satellite channels where none exists. This has been a problem since day #1 for them. Sometimes even a TBC will not help, which is sad. At least (seemingly) modern generations fixed IRE issues, so there was improvement. On the Panasonic bitrate, it may just be spiking above 10080k max allowed. We already know a DVD recorder can do 15k or more, if allowed (check Pioneer recorders, they can do it). | ||||
| davideck posted 2006 Apr 03 17:36 | ||||
My experience has been just the opposite. The JVC DR-M100S refused to record non-MV VHS tapes that a Panasonic and a Toshiba had no issues with. I have transferred many old VHS and Beta tapes now with my Toshiba, without one false MV detection. The JVC was also very sensitive to timebase jitters, making them more noticeable in some cases. In comparison, the Toshiba does a nice job of timebase correction. | ||||
| lordsmurf posted 2006 Apr 03 17:40 | ||||
Yeah, but the thing is I'm not talking solely from experience, I've literally gotten piles of reports about this issue, and to the best of my ability, aside from tossing the Toshiba in the trash, or just not using it to record from those sources, it cannot be fixed. I have no doubt JVC and others will give off false anti-copy warnings, all of them will at some point, it largely depends on your sources (I get this from personally recorded S-VHS-ET tapes sometimes). I'm referring to a problem that is recurring and verifiable among a large user base, not just isolated personal experiences. | ||||
| davideck posted 2006 Apr 03 19:26 | ||||
Do you know what type of source causes this? | ||||
| lordsmurf posted 2006 Apr 03 19:48 | ||||
| The #1 problem I hear is Comcast PVRs. Generally though, it's cable boxes, TIVOs, and PVR sources that give you grief. Rarely is it a VHS tape or something more common. | ||||
| davideck posted 2006 Apr 03 19:52 | ||||
| Do you know which TBC is involved? | ||||
| lordsmurf posted 2006 Apr 03 21:40 | ||||
| The usual suspects (DataVideo, AVTools), plus others from pro racks (all those fancy brands I forget between the time I hear the name and the next breath I take). | ||||
| davideck posted 2006 Apr 03 22:01 | ||||
| And only Toshiba units? Both HDD and non HDD models? I am wondering if the HDD models might have a better front end than those without. | ||||
| Legendsk posted 2006 Apr 03 22:04 | ||||
| Lord Smurf -
You have obviously put a lot of work into this. Rest assured it will be used by a lot of people, for a long time. We really appreciate your efforts. Thanks | ||||
| lordsmurf posted 2006 Apr 03 22:24 | ||||
I know it was both, but I forget at what frequency. Just knowing the market, I would guess there are less reports with HDD models, but they also sell far less HDD models, so the complaint curve sort of went with market curve. For the most part, your HDD and non-HDD units are essentially the same machines, I almost never see a HDD unit (or a combo unit, for that matter) being much different. Generally if the "plain" unit does something, the HDD and combos follow suit. | ||||
| mikej3131 posted 2006 Apr 04 12:13 | ||||
| Hey LordSmurf i was wondering if you could help me out here because it seems you know alot about this stuff.
Ok i havebeen capturing SD channels from my comcast motorola dct6214 HiDef dvr to my PC(the channels that dont have 5c copy protection), using a firewire cable. Yesterday i tried to capture a 5c copy protected channel and it didnt let me. I needed someway to record these shows that have 5c copy protection on them so i went into these forums and everybody said a dvd recorder will work. I am now going to purchase a dvd recorder but am not familar with them at all and need some help. Ok now i read this whole thread and you and alot of others seem to think JVC is top of the line with pioneer right behind(correct me if im wrong). Now can you suggest a dvd recorder for me as i use comcast's dvr and want to copy NFL channel shows(with 5c copy protection on them). I probably wont use the dvd recorder to copy vhs tapes, just comcast cable.i also want the best quality for my recorded shows too. Thanks to whoever wants to help EDIT : oh yeah, and id like a recorder that has hdmi out. But if there are no good recorders with HDMI out then i will just buy a seperate dvd player with hdmi out | ||||
| oldandinthe way posted 2006 Apr 20 09:24 | ||||
| I have had neither jitter nor overheating on my 18 month old Lite-On LW5005.
However my recorder is 12" from the wall and has 24" of open space above it. The quality of the signal from the tuner varies widely. It seems to drift as the unit is on. Perhaps this is heat related. Or perhaps a marginal signal from Comcast. I use my VCR's tuner as a result. No problems with editing files on my pc. I use crappy media without problem. Running up to date firmware without the MV hack. Have a SIMA GoDVD between VCR and recorder because major use is transfering my old home made VHSs. | ||||
| StuR posted 2006 Sep 25 10:51 | ||||
| Hi All,
I'm new to this site as I'm tring to find the holy grail of a good trustworthy dvd recorder to copy loads of old video's.
Lordsmurf I noticed this in an earlier post and was very suprised to see you puttin LiteOn at No.3 in the list. I've picked up that JVC are well thought of and Pioneer too but they always seem to be at the top of the price band. LiteOn are a bargain brand on the other hand and I've seriously considered the 5006 due to price, +-, Macrovision block, possiblity to extrend to 3yr warranty (particular shop). Would you really rate this higher than say the Panasonic ES20 (ram seems Ideal for possible editing, freeview/digital tuner) How about Samsung HR720 only - RW, but 80G HD for poss. editing. I'm totally confussed and have waited years for prices to normalise. Cheers :D | ||||
| EltonJohnBonJovi posted 2006 Sep 28 18:09 | ||||
| Pioneer
Issue: Picture drop-out from VHS sources. How common is it? You will hear about it, but not many people ever see it. The PAL units seem to garner far more complaints that the NTSC ones. It does not seem to be an issue in the newest Pioneer units that started to surface in summer 2005. Can it be fixed? Unknown. While it seems plausible that a firmware fix could correct it, that has yet to happen. Will it break again? N/A. This does not make any sense. If it's having picture drop outs it would have drop outs on everything not just vhs sources, the dvd recorder doesn't say ok there is a vcr hooked up so now I will start putting drop outs in the picture. If i'm not getting this, please explain. | ||||
| lordsmurf posted 2006 Sep 28 21:32 | ||||
| StuR, the original post probably needs some updates. I'll see if I can get some time to do it. At any rate, LiteOn is a decent machine because of the chipset. JVC is my top choice, with Toshiba, Pioneer, LiteOn and LG as runners-up. It's more about chipset, basic features and average build quality than brand name. Most recorders fail on one or more of those criteria. For example, the machine you named (t |