Forum Archive Home -> Authoring (Blu-ray) -> Can you convert/author DVD to Blu-Ray?

Can you convert/author DVD to Blu-Ray?

zanos posted 2008 Feb 19 14:26

Just curious. I haven't been around for a while so I'm not up on the latest techniques.

Baldrick posted 2008 Feb 19 14:46

Yes, just a get a all-in-one blu-ray tool like nerovision, pinnacle studio and add the dvds and convert. But what's the point? The video will reconverted so you will lose some video quality. It might be useful if you want several dvds on ONE bluray disc though but then I would wait for better h264 blu-ray all-in-one converters. edit: It should be possible to do dvd to blu-ray without conversion but I don't know any such blu-ray authoring software yet.

judgmentday posted 2008 Mar 03 10:00

: It might be useful if you want several dvds on ONE bluray disc though but then I would wait for better h264 blu-ray all-in-one converters. It would be very nice to have 5 DVD movies in a single 25GB blu-ray disc or 10 DVD movies in a 50gb blu-ray disc. Some dvd movies are very well recorded that their quality is almost on pair with blu-ray movies.

victoriabears posted 2008 Mar 03 10:09

But................if the disc fails (Do they really !), then you lose all that data. I've considered having a hard driver server in my house with all my stuff on it but again the same reason, hard drives do fail, at least if you lose one dvd disc, its only one show or movie.

[_chef_] posted 2008 Mar 04 03:10

LOL, try on a BD-RE first.

Disco Makberto posted 2008 Mar 29 03:25

>It should be possible to do dvd to blu-ray without conversion but I don't know any such blu-ray authoring >software yet. Could you please elaborate on this? How can this be theoretically achieved? For what is worth, the standalone Sharp BD-HD100 can record from DVD to Blu-Ray (sorry if this has been reported before). From hddvdblog.com: "The BD-HD100 will be the third recorder on the market to support the Blu-ray Disc format and the first Blu-Ray recorder to feature an internal 160GB hard drive. The recorder will have twin optical drives, one for Blu-ray and the other for standard DVDs. This allows copying of content, as long as it’s not copy-protected, between a DVD, Blu-ray Disc, and the hard drive. The machine can record onto rewritable single-layer BD-RE discs, which have a capacity of 25GB. This basically means that you can transfer the contents of five DVDs (4.7GB) to a single Blu-Ray disc." On a very important note, I coudln't find information on whether the trasfering from DVD to Blu-Ray disc will involve any kind of convertion. CAL Disco Makberto P.S.: Probably other Blu-Ray recorders with hard drive are capable of DVD to Blu-Ray transfering, but for some reason, the BD-HD100 is the only one with twin DVD and Blu-Ray drives I have found.

Disco Makberto posted 2008 Mar 30 00:29

>It should be possible to do dvd to blu-ray without conversion but I don't know any such blu-ray authoring >software yet. Still no one knows about this? Can anybody explain the theory behind it? One way to do DVD to Blu-Ray without conversion *might be* via AVS DVD Copy. This software allows for ISO-image burning (as if we were dealing with an optical disc) onto BD discs. For its part, an ISO-image of a DVD can be created with MagicISO (AVS DVD Copy can also create ISO-images). While burning, AVS DVD Copy will add the files that the ISO-image contain onto the BD disc. Still, I am not clear about the structure of the resulting disc, but I suppose it is compatible. Please post your comments to the group. Carlos Albert D-Mak

PuzZLeR posted 2008 Mar 30 11:44

It's still too early to know just yet. I guess the question you have to ask first is, "Is a DvD compliant MPEG-2 stream also within the subset of what's compliant within blu-ray?" As data? Sure. Re-encoding with BD's SD specs? Sure. Playback from the built-in DvD player of BD units? Sure, possibly even if there's more than one on on empty BD disc. But can you just mux in the raw DvD video stream into any of the BD format structures and play it back as a regular BD disc without breaking compliancy? THIS I'd love to know. If yes, then we are only a short time away from such an app. If not, then we have to re-encode regardless. Today, every BD authoring program that I've encountered insists on re-encoding anything you throw at it, even streams that I know are BD compliant so I guess we need a little bit more time yet for our dream app. We've got some time to go before we find a way to have one 50GB BD disc with dozens of the Simpsons episodes in DvD-SD (and many more still if you re-encode to a BD compliant H.264 format...)

Disco Makberto posted 2008 Mar 31 22:46

Puzzler, another important question would be, "Is it possible to transfer a DVD menu to a BD disc and keep the menu the way it was on the DVD?". CAL D-Mak

PuzZLeR posted 2008 Mar 31 23:11

Disco Makberto : Puzzler, another important question would be, "Is it possible to transfer a DVD menu to a BD disc and keep the menu the way it was on the DVD?". CAL D-Mak I don't think the coding language on BD's menu system is compatible with DvD. While HD-DvD was merely an extension of DvD, the BD structure was built from scratch, so a straight transfer without a good hack seems unlikely. Even the fact that BD units play DvDs is not officially standard, only a feature - the built-in DvD decoders are actually a different entity of the player. I would say, although I may be wrong, the best way to get multiple DvD images (as is, no reencoding or remuxing) to play on one BD disc in a BD player would be through the DvD decoding components inside, and nothing to do with BD really. I would think the answer lies there as a good start...

Disco Makberto posted 2008 Apr 01 01:54

Puzzler says: "I would say, although I may be wrong, the best way to get multiple DvD images (as is, no reencoding or remuxing) to play on one BD disc in a BD player would be through the DvD decoding components inside, and nothing to do with BD really. I would think the answer lies there as a good start..." CAL responds: What you are saying is related to one scenario I have thought extensively about before. You know that some DVD players have swappable IDE DVD drives...what would happen if I change such for an IDE Blu-Ray drive? Conceivably, HD stuff on a Blu-Ray disc won't be compatible as the chips inside the DVD player doesn't decode HD stuff, but what about "common stuff" for both DVD and Blu-Ray, like MPEG-2 and Dolby Digital? Will the modified DVD player decode such a Blu-Ray disc? As for transfering menus from DVD's to Blu-Ray discs, if a good hack is needed, well, it is still (or might be) possible. My main interest is to maintain the same menu in whatever way is possible. Finally, pertaining the resulting Blu-Ray disc, I wouldn't care if it is officially standard or not in asmuch as it is playable via a standalone player. To draw a parallel, I have read about some authored recordable Blu-Ray discs only playable with a PS3. Such discs are definitely not mainstream or officially supported, but they are still playable by some players (or at least by PS3). Take care, Carlos Albert L. D-Makberto

PuzZLeR posted 2008 Apr 01 09:48

You raise a good point there by swapping a BD drive into a DvD system. I have never tried it, but if the DvD internal decoding system can read it as a "disc", would it also be able to recognize that there are multiple images on this disc, or would it only read the first one, or none at all? I'd love to know if anyone's tried it. But honestly, standard or not, special player or not, I really don't see an issue with future players reading "multiple DvD BD discs" as the market matures. Although it isn't your solution, we will also be seeing BD discs with SD content on it in the future - such as 5 seasons of a TV show, etc. The only reason they are not doing it now is that the consumer mindset today is "Oh, it's not HD, so I feel ripped off." DvD has to start phasing out first actually. Then it would warrant justification to release SD titles on BD discs using the the BD SD spec (with quantity in mind) or releasing machines that easily play multiple, unchanged, standard DvD images on one BD disc. Cheers. Geordie.

Disco Makberto posted 2008 Apr 01 22:28

I agree with everything you said. However, in the case of commercial BD players reading DVD BD discs, I think that the "swapping technique" would save me quite a few bucks, assuming that it works. The again, one never knows, and maybe we will see in the future something like the era of the lower priced Apex, Sampo, et. al. DVD players but as "new brand" similarly-priced BD players. CAL D-Mak

terjeber posted 2008 Apr 01 23:28

PuzZLeR : Disco Makberto : Puzzler, another important question would be, "Is it possible to transfer a DVD menu to a BD disc and keep the menu the way it was on the DVD?". CAL D-Mak I don't think the coding language on BD's menu system is compatible with DvD. While HD-DvD was merely an extension of DvD, the BD structure was built from scratch, so a straight transfer without a good hack seems unlikely. This is not entirely correct. In fact, HD DVD disks and Blu-Ray disks had more in common when it comes to the menu structure than does HD DVD and DVD. On both formats (overly simplified) there is movie data (as with DVD) and an XML file that describes the menu structure. On Blu you can extend with Java, on HD DVD with Javascript and some other technologies. In order for you to put a DVD onto a Blu-Ray (or a HD DVD for that matter) you would have to rip the DVD, get the MPEG-2 stream and put this onto the disk in a way that a Blu-Ray player would understand. In the real world that would mean that you would need an authoring package that can create Blu-Ray menus. In theory there should be no need for re-encoding of the MPEG-2 stream at all, but I am not aware of any Blu-Ray authoring tools that do this. Then again, I am not aware that any of the more popular ones do not. You'd have to try. In theory this would be the steps: 1/ Rip DVD to MPEG-2 - repeat for all movies you want 2/ Author new Blu-Ray with menus pointing to the MPEG-2s just ripped. 3/ Burn and play [qupte]Even the fact that BD units play DvDs is not officially standard, only a feature - the built-in DvD decoders are actually a different entity of the player.[/quote] Again, this is not even close to true. Blu-Ray mandates MPEG-2 as an encoding format, and a number of Blu-Rays have been released with MPEG-2 encoded movies. On the other hand, a Blu-Ray player uses a blue laser to read the disk, and this can not read a DVD. It needs an additional red laser to read a DVD. This was exactly the same for HD DVD, which also used a blue laser and needed an additional red laser to play DVDs. If you think what I am describing is that the two HD formats were very similar you'd be correct, they were very, very similar and a lot closer than either was to DVD. The main difference was disk structure and menu system, the latter which was again very similar.

Disco Makberto posted 2008 Apr 02 00:48

Re: DVD Menu vs. Blu-Ray Menu. According to Scenarist, when discussing Blu-Ray menus: " 'Always-on' Menus - These are similar to DVD-Video menus. They are usually displayed on disc insertion or because the viewer has selected to leave the video presentation and display a menu. It is possible for video to continue playing uninterrupted in the background. " This has led me to think with a good degree of certainty that there have got to be a way to transfer a DVD menu to a Blu-Ray disc and keep it the way it was on the DVD. CAL D-Mak

PuzZLeR posted 2008 Apr 02 11:52

terjeber : In fact, HD DVD disks and Blu-Ray disks had more in common when it comes to the menu structure than does HD DVD and DVD. On both formats (overly simplified) there is movie data (as with DVD) and an XML file that describes the menu structure. On Blu you can extend with Java, on HD DVD with Javascript and some other technologies. I didn't realize that both HD-DvD and BD were that close, but still, the compatibility with the older DvD as far as structure is concerned is still miles off, which is what I wanted to point out. : In theory there should be no need for re-encoding of the MPEG-2 stream at all, but I am not aware of any Blu-Ray authoring tools that do this. Then again, I am not aware that any of the more popular ones do not. You'd have to try. That's what I'd like to know. It's obvious that BD supports MPEG-2, even in SD rez, but can you just remux a compliant DvD MPEG-2 stream into the BD menu structure, without re-encoding it, and it will play? : In theory this would be the steps: 1/ Rip DVD to MPEG-2 - repeat for all movies you want 2/ Author new Blu-Ray with menus pointing to the MPEG-2s just ripped. 3/ Burn and play This would be very true if there was a compatibility with the video MPEG-2 video streams and even the menus. But it's still far too early. I know that you can use hex editing to do something like this, but without such hacks, no one seems to know. terjeber : [qupte]Even the fact that BD units play DvDs is not officially standard, only a feature - the built-in DvD decoders are actually a different entity of the player. Again, this is not even close to true. Blu-Ray mandates MPEG-2 as an encoding format, and a number of Blu-Rays have been released with MPEG-2 encoded movies. On the other hand, a Blu-Ray player uses a blue laser to read the disk, and this can not read a DVD. It needs an additional red laser to read a DVD. This was exactly the same for HD DVD, which also used a blue laser and needed an additional red laser to play DVDs. That was my point exactly. The fact that a BD (and even an HD-DvD player) has to employ a red laser to read DvD is the separate component I was talking about. The fact that BD includes MPEG-2 in its spec is not proof enough. We still don't know if the compliant MPEG-2 stream in DvD is compliant within the MPEG-2 SD spec of BD. : If you think what I am describing is that the two HD formats were very similar you'd be correct, they were very, very similar and a lot closer than either was to DVD. The main difference was disk structure and menu system, the latter which was again very similar. Yes. I do realize now that the two were closer to each other than any was with the older DvD. I appreciate you pointing that out. I guess the marketing strategy of HD-DvD was in pointing out to DvD users that this is "a new DvD standard" while BD is something bloated, weird, non-standard and overly expensive. Maybe it did have an effect in my thinking after all. Disco Makberto: Do you have access to Scenarist? Personally the high price and complex functions it uses has turned me off, but can you, or someone else, rip a DvD to its demuxed streams and see if Scenarist accepts this within a BD project? Just curious.

videopoo posted 2008 Apr 02 12:14

: This has led me to think with a good degree of certainty that there have got to be a way to transfer a DVD menu to a Blu-Ray disc and keep it the way it was on the DVD No way...you would need to design a completely new menu. Although DVD and BD both support MPEG2, they're file structure is different. You can't rip an MPEG off a DVD and author a BD title with it. : This is not entirely correct. In fact, HD DVD disks and Blu-Ray disks had more in common when it comes to the menu structure than does HD DVD and DVD. On both formats (overly simplified) there is movie data (as with DVD) and an XML file that describes the menu structure. On Blu you can extend with Java, on HD DVD with Javascript and some other technologies I'd agree with Puzzler but it all depends on what flavor of HD DVD were talking about. Standard Content HD DVD is almost exactly like DVD-Video. BDs structure is completely different while HD DVD Advanced Content has some similarities to DVD-Video.

Disco Makberto posted 2008 Apr 02 12:32

Hello, e-Folks! No, I don't have access to Scenarist, unfortunately. Let me tell you that I don't quite understand Puzzler's statement of, "We still don't know if the compliant MPEG-2 stream in DvD is compliant within the MPEG-2 SD spec of BD". Mathematically speaking, there is some common ground if you use, for instance, MPEG-2 for video and Dolby Digital for audio. You see, MPEG-2 for video and Dolby Digital for audio is mandatory for both DVD and Blu-Ray disc at the same time, if you go up to the maximum permitted for DVD. For instance, a DVD video resolution of 720 x 480 and a video bitrate of 9.8Mbps is also within the Blu-Ray specifications that have maximums of 1920 x 1080 as video resolution and 40.0mbps as video bitrate. In the case of Dolby Digital (5.1 for instance) the maximum bitrate for DVD is 504 kbit/s and in the case of Blu-Ray is 604 kbit/s. So, 504 kbit/s is within the Blu-Ray specifications. On the other hand, if you start off with a DVD or MPEG-2 stream composed of MPEG-2 video and MP2 audio, while this is is compliant with DVD in PAL countries, it is not compliant with Blu-Ray simply because MP2 audio is not supported by Blu-Ray. Hence, in this case, you would need to converte MP2 audio to something supported by Blu-Ray. As for red laser reading DVD's, this is different than blue laser reading Blu-Ray discs with material that is common for both DVD and Blu-Ray technology. In essence, in this scenario, the blue laser is reading a Blu-Ray disc, and it doesn't care (or shouldn't care) if the material is both DVD and Blu-Ray compatible or just Blu-Ray compatible simply because if it still a Blu-Ray disc. I hope this helps. Cordially, CAL D-Mak P.S.: Most technical information has been based on Wikipedia. Thanks! P.P.S.: Last line should read, "because it is still a Blu-Ray disc".

videopoo posted 2008 Apr 02 13:04

The disc may not care but the tool used to build a BD title does.

poisondeathray posted 2008 Apr 02 13:11

I'm curious to see if Scenarist is the real deal also. $5000 though... I guess I'm not that curious :)

PuzZLeR posted 2008 Apr 02 13:33

poisondeathray : I'm curious to see if Scenarist is the real deal also. $5000 though... I guess I'm not that curious :) Killed this cat's curiosity too. I'll wait till the consumer apps catch up thank you very much. :) @Disco Makberto: Disregarding audio for the moment (since AC-3 streams will work in BD easily) and being as obsessive as I can be, my thinking is as such: I've been encoding lots of H.264 content with Nero Recode and x264 over the last couple of years. Although these two encoders pledge full compliance with the H.264 standard, and they do comply, this does not mean that BD will accept my H.264 content although H.264 is within the BD spec. I have come to the (quite sad) realization that blu-ray players will not accept my content without re-encoding with a patched version of x264, or NeroVision's AVCHD encoder, etc., and will not accept my content as well because it has P 4x4, etc. I can probably save it since I didn't use excessive B/ref frames or B-pyramids, but not without a hack. This is my thinking for MPEG-2. Not all MPEG-2 is DvD compliant, and I wouldn't bet the farm that the MPEG-2 that's compliant in DvD is compliant in BD stream-for-stream even at the same rez, fps, etc. I could be wrong, but I'd love to know if Scenarist will indeed accept a DvD MPEG-2 stream within a BD project... anybody try this yet?

videopoo posted 2008 Apr 02 13:51

: $5000 though... I guess I'm not that curious Scenarist HDMV is much more than 5K. Try 40K..then another 40K for the BD-J add on. : I could be wrong, but I'd love to know if Scenarist will indeed accept a DvD MPEG-2 stream within a BD project... anybody try this yet? Yes...it won't accept it. : This is my thinking for MPEG-2. Not all MPEG-2 is DvD compliant, and I wouldn't bet the farm that the MPEG-2 that's compliant in DvD is compliant in BD stream-for-stream even at the same rez, fps Thats correct

Disco Makberto posted 2008 Apr 02 15:17

I see what you are getting at, Puzzler. I think that what you are saying is that a BD disc can be Blu-Ray compliant and still not work with a standalone BD player. Yes, that is a possibililty. But we have got to twist the coin as well. There is the possibility that a BD disc is not totally Blu-Ray compliant and still works with a stanalone BD player. This is not always in black & white as you can imagine. CAL D-Mak

Disco Makberto posted 2008 Apr 02 15:35

Videopoo, When you talk about a "Blu-Ray" menu, what kind of menu are you talking about? From emedialive.com, regarding Blu-Ray menus: "HDMV mode incorporates several types of visual menus (pop-up, multi-page, always-on) to contain information and assorted buttons for navigation and feature control. A pop-up menu can be activated over top of a playing (or paused) movie without interrupting the audio and video underneath as can a multi-page menu consisting of interconnected screens. Each is stored as an out-of-mux stream and is preloaded into the BD player's buffer before playback begins. An always-on menu is akin to that on conventional DVD and is preloaded or multiplexed with the video stream." From dv.com, regarding Blu-Ray menus: "There is also a provision in HDMV for standard Always On menus that behave more or less as menus behave in DVDs today. However, they can be programmed to transition on and off, without affecting the background video layer." If I understand those statements correctly, it is definitely possible to create an Always On menu on a Blu-Ray disc with the on and off transition working with the background video. And this "simple" Always On menu on a Blu-Ray disc would be pretty much the same as a DVD menu. Carlos Albert D-Mak

videopoo posted 2008 Apr 02 16:14

You can do that but it would mean creating a completely new menu in an HDMV tool. It's not as simple as creating a menu in DVD. I thought you were talking about ripping a DVD and transferring that menu to Scenarist and using the same graphics. "Always On" menus is just an Menu Object that is just that - Always On. They are not Pop -ups. You could re-create a menu from a Video-DVD onto BD but the process in design is completely different.

poisondeathray posted 2008 Apr 02 16:22

videopoo : Scenarist HDMV is much more than 5K. Try 40K..then another 40K for the BD-J add on. :shock: USD? or pesos? It sounds like you are familiar with Scenarist Blu-Ray authoring, videopoo? Did your chequebook suffer the 80K hit?

Disco Makberto posted 2008 Apr 02 16:47

>You could re-create a menu from a Video-DVD onto BD but the process in design is completely different. Videopoo, could you please tell me how can this be done on a general basis? Also, do we use some elements of the original DVD menu? The idea is to create a BD menu as similar as possible to the original DVD menu, graphically-wise and functionally-wise. CAL DM

videopoo posted 2008 Apr 02 18:22

[quote]It sounds like you are familiar with Scenarist Blu-Ray authoring, videopoo? Did your chequebook suffer the 80K hit? LOL..no. I actually use Blu-Print which one of my clients has bought. It's cheaper and more user friendly than Scenarist. : Videopoo, could you please tell me how can this be done on a general basis? Also, do we use some elements of the original DVD menu? The idea is to create a BD menu as similar as possible to the original DVD menu, graphically-wise and functionally-wise. Basically you would encode a 1920x1080 stream. This will be added to your Playable Content or Title. Over that is where your Pages, Layers and Buttons lie. This is where you would place your buttons. Buttons come in three states - Normal , Selected and Activated and must be PNGs. Doom9.org is a good place to learn if you dont have access.

terjeber posted 2008 Apr 02 19:15

PuzZLeR : This would be very true if there was a compatibility with the video MPEG-2 video streams There is. BD is fully MPEG-2 capable, even DVD spec MPEG-2. : and even the menus. A DVD menu is just a movie. A Blu-Ray player will play it as a movie. It doesn't look like a menu to a BD player, it just looks like a movie. In order to get menus to work you'd have to create new ones. The way you create menus on a Blu (or HD DVD) disk is radically different from DVD. : But it's still far too early. Nah, it is not too early. We know it all right now. : I know that you can use hex editing to do something like this, Nope, you can't. There is no real way to transfer DVD menus to a BD disk, you have to create new ones. Of course, some day someone may come up with a piece of software that does the conversion but this seems unlikely. You can't do it, hex editor or not, manually. A BD menu is (overly simplifies) a text file (XML) and some video etc.

terjeber posted 2008 Apr 02 19:24

Disco Makberto : >You could re-create a menu from a Video-DVD onto BD but the process in design is completely different. Videopoo, could you please tell me how can this be done on a general basis? Simple. You create a new menu, from scratch. You can use some of the same elements, graphics etc, but you are creating the menu from scratch. : Also, do we use some elements of the original DVD menu? You should be. They are just MPEG-2s that's all. I don't think you'd really want to though, re-designing the menus in HD would be the logical way to go since you have to re-create the menus anyway. : The idea is to create a BD menu as similar as possible to the original DVD menu, graphically-wise and functionally-wise. This is not particularly difficult, albeit you do it from scratch, you can duplicate the functionality of a DVD menu on a BD. That is in fact what the consumer tools you can buy from ULead etc do. You create a static menu. select the video you want to play or chapter you want to play and voila, you are playing it.

PuzZLeR posted 2008 Apr 02 20:41

terjeber : : This would be very true if there was a compatibility with the video MPEG-2 video streams There is. BD is fully MPEG-2 capable, even DVD spec MPEG-2. Appreciate the insight. Are you referring to just DvD playback, or do you really mean an untampered-with fully compliant DvD MPEG-2 stream within the context of blu-ray menus, structure, etc.? Unfortunately that now has conflicting answers in this thread :dizzy: since it was confirmed that Scenarist does not accept a DvD compliant stream. Then again, with Scenarist, it's only 100% certain when it accepts a stream. When in doubt, compliant or not, it rejects. terjeber : : But it's still far too early. Nah, it is not too early. We know it all right now. Well maybe. But I just wrote that in case some future person does a search sometime in 2010 and upon reading this thread may think we're clueless idiots. To that future person: Please note, this is just after the format war, the tech is still brand new to us, so that's my justification and disclaimer to ignorance (or my/our being clueless and idiotic). :P

Disco Makberto posted 2008 Apr 04 00:06

I was waiting for somebody to reply to Puzzler, but owing to a lack of it, I am going to try to. Puzzler, I am still not sure about the specifics of your question(s), so let sort out different scenarios: I- If you are asking if it is possible that a Blu-Ray disc contains the same MPEG-2 and Dolby Digital that are compliant with both DVD-specifications and Blu-Ray specifications at the same time, the answer is yes. On the Internet or elsewhere, for instance, look for the Blu-Ray disc "Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines" and locate the film's original theatrical trailer. You can see that this is 480p/MPEG-2 video only which, by extension, is also DVD-compliant. II- If you are asking if a standalone Blu-Ray player and a Blu-Ray software have to be able to read the Blu-Ray disc described on I., the answer is yes. Otherwise, what's the point in adding the theatrical trailer as 480p/MPEG-2 video on "Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines"? III- If you are asking if a custom-made Blu-Ray disc recorded on a recordable BD disc with MPEG-2 and Dolby Digital common to both DVD-specifications and Blu-Ray specifications have to be mandatorily compliant by default, the answer is not necessarily. However, this has nothing to do with Blu-Ray technology and compliance issues. If this is the case, it is because of a problem with the software that created that disc, with the media onto which the material was recorded, or with the method used to create or burn the disc. I hope this helps, and I also hope that the readers agree with me. Cheers, Carlos Albert Lacaye Disco Makberto

videopoo posted 2008 Apr 04 02:26

: If you are asking if it is possible that a Blu-Ray disc contains the same MPEG-2 and Dolby Digital that are compliant with both DVD-specifications and Blu-Ray specifications at the same time, the answer is yes. On the Internet or elsewhere, for instance, look for the Blu-Ray disc "Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines" and locate the film's original theatrical trailer. You can see that this is 480p/MPEG-2 video only which, by extension, is also DVD-compliant. I hate to argue but thats just not true. Yes, they are the same codec, resolution and file extension but with completely different file headings and structures. My point is that you cannot take any MPEG2 stream used on DVD-Video and expect it to be BD compliant - even though both are MPEG-2, 480i and use the same extension. Its need to be encoded with a BD complaint encoder such as Cinevision for example.

Disco Makberto posted 2008 Apr 04 08:33

Hello, Videopoo! I certainly agree with you. This is similar to some debate I had with a friend when he kept saying that a WAV file on Windows was different to a PCM file on a CD. Well, yes, they are different, but the functionality is the same when we use the same encoding parameters. And this is my point. Functionally speaking, MPEG-2 480i on DVD and BD are the same, again, functionally speaking. However, it is defiitely true that they are not mutually exchangeable in a direct way (like in "copy & paste"). We can draw the same comparison with a WAV file on Windows and a PCM file on a CD. When you said that an MPEG-2 480i file on a DVD needs to be re-encoded with a BD compliant encoder in order to put it on a BD, are you talking about re-enconding as in losing quality? If so, I don't agree. It is true that some form of reorganization needs to take place, but there are some procedures to avoid losing quality. There is a guide (perhaps on AVS or Doom9), but I cannot find it right now, unfortunately. In a nutshell, this guide was covering something like re-creating the MPEG's with the corresponding loss of quality, but prior to, I think, burning them, they were replaced with the original MPEG's that had no loss in quality. The resulting BD had MPEG-2 files that had the same quality as the MPEG-2 files on the DVD. CAL DM

videopoo posted 2008 Apr 04 11:31

I see what you mean :) Yes, you don't need to lose quality. But, its not as simple as taking an MPEG2 stream off a DVD-Video and loading it into a BD authoring tool. There is an intermediate step that needs to take place. I don't do this kind of work but would like to know the process. If you find the link from Doom - let us know

Midzuki posted 2008 Apr 04 12:13

How about this one: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=135642&highlight=blu-ray+mpeg-2

SCDVD posted 2008 Apr 04 13:03

One of the problems with this whole BlueRay issue is the underlying grab-ass and land mine crap that Sony is pulling. It seems to me that they are deliberately making things difficult. The almighty Sony and their studio buddies want to keep the "good stuff" to their selves. High bit rate, full HD resolution, full function menus etc. is ONLY theirs to use and it's called BDMV. For us lowlife slime, there's BDAV with a whole boat load of limitations and restrictions. On top of this, BlueRay players are booby trapped and restricted with respect to whether or not they will even play a recordable BlueRay disc. It's a huge mess deliberately screwed up by Sony and their studio pals. I seriously believe that until and if this whole mess is sorted out that the best thing to do is to make regular DVDs with near maximum bit rates and let them be upconverted in a BlueRay player. This is particularly true for professionals such as videographers who produce video jobs for clients. Believe me there will be a whole boatload of problems for those who attempt to produce BlueRay discs for clients. The two biggest complaints will be, "It won't play" and "It doesn't look like HD to me". Why? Because those are the problems that Sony wants you to have. We haven't yet even begun to see the numbers of problems that Sony has crafted for us.

Disco Makberto posted 2008 Apr 04 23:10

Okay, guys, here's one guide talking about re-encoded and not re-encoded MPEG-2. It is a PDF file, and it was written by Kabanero over at AVS. (Reproduced without his permission but in good faith): http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=101743 ... 1202603603 CAL D-Mak P.S.: Upon reading, I can see that this guide dedicates more time towards AVCHD as opposed to true BD. But I think it is still a good start. Thanks!

Midzuki posted 2008 Apr 05 00:27

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=101743 ... 1202603603 said:

Disco Makberto posted 2008 Apr 05 00:29

SCDDVD, I agree with what you said, and I will stick with DVD's for the time being. Still, as many people have expressed here, when and if the technology behind "DVD's on BD discs" matures, becomes user friendly, and most importantly for me, it is within my pocket limitations, I will then join the wagon. At any rate, these messages and this new forum "Authoring (Blu-Ray)" definitely helps us to "test the waters". Best, CAL D-Mak

Disco Makberto posted 2008 Apr 05 00:39

Midsuki, Try this link: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13065746#post13065746 Or this other one: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=136361 And you can find the PDF mentioned there. By the way, Kabanero and Mozartman appears to be the same person. Carlos Albert D-Makberto

Midzuki posted 2008 Apr 05 01:04

Thanks for the attention. :) But now I have already become a member to the AVS Forums, and already downloaded and read the damn PDF as well. :lol: Anyway... : Upon reading, I can see that this guide dedicates more time towards AVCHD as opposed to true BD. Correct. And according to the Doom9's thread I mentioned, all that the "Blu-Ray~compliance" requires from a DVD-Forum compliant .m2v is the absence of the "progressive stream" flag. Sadly I still do not own a BD-player to test that information by myself. :sleep:

Disco Makberto posted 2008 Apr 05 01:41

Hello, Midzuki! Thank you for sharing your Doom9 link. The whole process appears to be a bit too complicated for me. As I was telling SCDVD, the way we deal right now with issues regarding BD Recordable discs and recording video onto them is frustrating (not user-friendly). Nonetheless, the most important thing which is recording MPEG-2 from DVD as MPEG-2 onto BD discs without losing quality is plausible. I suspect that there will be a way, either with some intermediate steps or with less than some or more than some intermediate steps, to transfer, reproduce, or recreate a menu from a DVD disc onto a BD disc resembling or imaging the original menu. When will that happen? I don't know. If somebody knows the way or finds a guide, please post to the forum. About m2v, I can't test your information, either. But hopefully, a fellow reader will come to our rescue. Regards, CAL D-M

PuzZLeR posted 2008 Apr 05 02:30

I think what this forum needs, is a thread, whether this one or another, where a few kind souls offer to accept uploaded encoded samples and confirm compatibility on their BD units. I would do this myself if I had a player, but currently I'm up in arms over getting a BD player, PS3 or waiting for a good DivX certified model coming soon. In the meantime, it's a blindfolded treasure-hunt for me and several others. Then again, knowing Sony, I wouldn't be surprised if one member said it works on his player and the next one says it didn't. I love Sony's standards.:evil:

Disco Makberto posted 2008 Apr 05 07:43

I'm 100% with Puzzler! CAL DM

Midzuki posted 2008 Apr 05 09:57

For the time being, let's all pray/hope/dream MediaChance wants to release the award-winning Hi-Def Lab Pro. :idea:

videopoo posted 2008 Apr 05 11:32

: Upon reading, I can see that this guide dedicates more time towards AVCHD as opposed to true BD. Yeah...AVCHD is a different format/spec than BD and is not supported on many players. I'll search some more myself to see what comes up.

Disco Makberto posted 2008 Apr 05 15:31

Hello, Videopoo! I have been able to find out that some BD demo discs are supposedly encoded entirely with MPEG-2 480i stuff, not just the extras like in some commercial BD discs. I will try to get a hold of one just to have physical prove. CAL Disco Mak

Disco Makberto posted 2008 Apr 05 16:18

Hi, again! I think this information will be interesting for Puzzler and hopefully for others. Take a look at these 2-disc Blu-Ray release "Spider-Man 3": http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/spiderman3.html The set is comprised of two Blu-Ray discs. Extremely interesting is the fact that one of these Blu-Ray discs has been encoded entirely with MPEG-2 480i. This precise disc is like a jewel to me as I can use it for testing purposes. If I find this "Spider-Man 3" for a good price, I will definitely buy it. When cheap Blu-Ray players pop up (if they do), I can visualize myself going to Best Buy or Walmart with the disc. Cheers, Carlos Albert Disco Mak

videopoo posted 2008 Apr 05 19:47

I'd imagine there are. But the streams were NOT from an encoder that does DVD-Video. I'm working on a Blu Ray title now that had some "extras" that are 480i. I could author a BD title completely in 480i but whats the point of that? Thats why I'm surprised you found a BD disc thats completely 480. Not sure why the extra money and care was put into a disc like when it could have been done on DVD and stuck in the case along with the main disc. I'm using Cinevision, encoding a MPEG2 480i @ CBR 7 MB/s. I could encode that same piece with another DVD-Video encoder like Cinemacraft or TMPGEnc and will not be BD Compliant.

Disco Makberto posted 2008 Apr 05 20:56

But there are ways to re-encode a DVD MPEG2 480i file to a BD MPEG2 480i file. One method is by using, for instance, MPGRepairHD, but I am not sure, or better yet, I am sure that this is not the best method simply because it involves re-encoding with loss of quality. We all trying to find a method without losing quality; we have been near, but not quite there yet, at least as far as a not-so-complicated solution is concerned. CAL Disco Makberto

Disco Makberto posted 2008 Apr 07 00:59

Hi, there! After some more research, the easiest solution (at least theoretically speaking) appears to be TsRemux. According to its description, "(TsRemux has the) ability to remux program streams (MPG/VOB/EVOB) into TS/M2TS". I can see this tool as a basis to create BD compatible stuff, up to the point to authoring and burning onto BD discs (with other softwares, of course). Furthermore, according to some posters, TsRemux has a better all-in-one approach when compared to similar applications like Elecard XMuser. Specifically, it has been reported that the stream produced by Elecard XMuser has some audio issues when trying to playing it with PS3; this doesn't happen with TsRemux. I hope this helps, and I welcome more findings or comments. Thumbs up, Carlos Albert D-Makberto

ticos2000 posted 2008 May 08 07:16

if you need to author without reencoding go with dvdit pro. you just create your video as bluray print option on vegas then create your audio with ac3 and your done the authoring program will accept your files without any transcoding best regards

t0nee1 posted 2008 May 08 08:46

puzZler wrote, "I think what this forum needs, is a thread, whether this one or another, where a few kind souls offer to accept uploaded encoded samples and confirm compatibility on their BD units. Then again, knowing Sony, I wouldn't be surprised if one member said it works on his player and the next one says it didn't. " I agree, as I've had mixed results using diff. methods...I can stream just fine using MKV2VOB file,just when using tsMuxer, can't seem to be able to burn a disc with (BDMV/CERTIFICATE files that my PS3 will accept....I'd be willing to try out some samples ,as the kind soul that I am.... :)

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