camcorder dv to h.264

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camcorder dv to h.264

aybills posted 2008 Aug 26 18:09

I'd like to archive all my camcorder dv files to my PC, and I'm hoping to identify a tool for DV to H.264 conversion (though I'm open to other codec suggestions). I would like the video to be standard definition "DVD quality" but with lower bitrates since MPEG2 files are still too large (albeit a lot smaller than the original DV). Encoding time is not a concern for me at all.

FYI, I considered using Windows Moviemaker to convert from DV to WMV for sheer simplicity, but I was hoping for better video quality and a more universal container/codec since I would like to archive these files *forever* so I'd like to minimize the risk that I may need to re-encode them several decades down the road.

The tools don't need to be freeware, nor the easiest to use. My priorities are video quality #1 and file size #2.

Thanks in advance!

yoda313 posted 2008 Aug 26 18:11

For permanent archives save the dv tapes to the dv codec and backup to a harddrive.

ANY compression will degrade the original quality.

WMV is pretty universal these days. You can increase the quality level or decrease as you want. It's pretty versatile.

Check the tools section for video conversion tools.

Super might accept dv codec avi files though I'm not sure. There are plenty of freeware and payware alternatives.

EDIT - Welcome to the forum! :)

aybills posted 2008 Aug 26 18:39

Thanks for your response. Yes, I do plan to permanently archive the DV tapes. My desire to re-encode the files is just so that I have all of my home video conveniently on my PC and to facilitate sharing individual clips with others.

I do recognize that WMV is nearly ubiquitous today; but I am somewhat reluctant to use a proprietary format since a few decades is an eternity in terms of PC evolution.

On a related note, does Windows Movie Maker allow me to adjust the quality settings directly for WMV or do I need a 3rd party utility?

yoda313 posted 2008 Aug 26 18:56

There are multiple wmv settings. You can go from pocket pc to high def. There are also multiple web sharing settings for streaming.

edDV posted 2008 Aug 26 19:23

The big quality drop comes from the need to deinterlace.

Use WME (Windows Media 9 Encoder) for greater encoding control.

PuzZLeR posted 2008 Aug 26 22:41

The best SD deliverable, rather compressed, format, which is universally accepted, and will be for a long, long time is MPEG-2 using the DvD spec if you want to compress and archive.

However, if MPEG-2 is still too large for you, and you still want a "forever" or good future-proof video format in SD, then I would recommend H.264 or VC-1 in the blu-ray spec. Both video formats are open standards, not proprietary.

H.264 in fact *is* an MPEG codec despite its funny name, and can be played back in SD format on blu-ray in small file sizes and high quality. There's some rather expensive payware that does this, but the best freeware is MeGUI, using x264's blu-ray profile. RipBot264 does blu-ray too. Just use the correct resolution and fps.

VC-1 is actually an evolution of WMV, however has been released by the MS parade to be an open standard, and has also been accepted on blu-ray. If you're going to use WMV, and don't want proprietary, and want something futureproofed, then I would say use VC-1.

SD's true home is still very much MPEG-2/DvD, and will be for a very long time, if not forever, however, if you want more compression and great compatibility, I would say keeping the blu-ray SD spec in the two more modern codecs is your best bet.

edDV posted 2008 Aug 26 23:04

VC-1 (aka SMPTE 421) can also retain interlace which is good for DV. Bit rate determines quality.

"Broadcast quality" interlace NTSC 480i or PAL 576i takes 10Mb/s using advanced profile L1.

FulciLives posted 2008 Aug 26 23:35

Out of curiosity can you do a MP4 with H.264 and AAC-LC audio that is interlaced?

I wonder how this would work and playback on a device like a PS3 or XboX 360 ... hmmm?

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

aybills posted 2008 Aug 27 09:59

I tried using encoding into WMV using Windows Movie Maker. Aside from DV-AVI capture, the best "quality setting" offered was "High Quality Video (Large)" which uses VBR encoding. The video sample I used (which was not especially busy) ended up encoding at ~3.3Mbps (the highest quality WMV CBR option was 2.1Mbps). So the file size was fine - about 25MB/min, but the quality was terrible. Lots of video artifacts.

Any tips on how to improve the quality using Windows Movie Maker (somewhere closer to the original recording).

If not, I still would appreciate any tips on encoding DV-AVI to H.264.

Thanks again!

FulciLives posted 2008 Aug 27 12:24

@aybills

Any chance you can upload a small clip ... raw DV-AVI ... I would like to download and "play" with it. See what I can come up with etc.

There are websites such as rapidshare.com that will allow you to host files for free (usually there is a 100MB limit on files) thus allowing anyone to download for free.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
Looks like rapidshare.com now allows files up to 200MB although anything a few seconds long (with movement inside the frame) would be great.

poisondeathray posted 2008 Aug 27 12:41

@Fulci - actually some European transport streams come in h264 and AAC audio. Some channels are interlaced, some are progressive. Usually the big problem is the audio, which is the LATM/LAOS variety of AAC, and not easily transformed. While dgavcdec can demux the audio, there is no decoder currently available to decode or transform it, except winamp. The workaround is converting it to .wav using winamp.

@aybills - Just to add if you are considering h264, while the compression and quality are great, it's not very friendly to edit (with frame accuracy) using the current generation of applications - at least not as easy as MPEG or DV-AVI. Part of the reason is because of the high compression, and part of the reason is limited PAFF support with current decoders. You can do simple edits without re-encoding with h264ts_cutter, but it is not perfect, and sometimes you get a few corrupted frames at the cut site. You usually can frameserve using dgavcdec and avisynth, but again, not the most user friendly.

You can encode DV-AVI to h264 using any of the free x264 front ends. (e.g. MeGUI, xvid4psp, ripbot264, staxrip, a few others...) Most will use avisynth to frameserve, thus you need to use something like ffdshow and enable the DV in the ffdshow configuration (its OFF by default)

aybills posted 2008 Aug 28 00:08

@Fulci - I don't have an ftp server set up, so I will try to upload something to one of my photosharing services tomorrow. I really appreciate your willingness to help!

@poison - For now, I'm primarily interested in having a reduced size archive on my PC so I don't need a solution which is edit-friendly. For video editing, I will continue using the original DV clips since I also wish to preserve the highest quality.

I tried using MeGUI + AVISynth to convert the DV-AVI to H.264, but when I tried to enter an AVISynth script, I got an error where it couldn't locate a decompressor for fourcc dvsd. Since I am a newbie at this, I figured I'd probably run into a series of issues like this - all of which would be quite foreign to me.

poisondeathray posted 2008 Aug 28 08:36

Enable DV in the ffdshow configuration. DirectShowSource() + avisynth should work for either DV Type-1 and Type-2. It should read "libavcodec" in the drop down menu, instead of "disabled"

aybills posted 2008 Aug 28 09:56

@poison - Thank you very much! I'll give that a try!

@Fulci - you can download a 5-second clip at http://albums.phanfare.com/isolated/mT_GQk5X/1378781/2628531

Thanks again!

poisondeathray posted 2008 Aug 28 10:28

I think Fulci requested a raw-dv sample, the link has processed video (flash). You can see combing artifacts in the "karate kids" sample. If you plan to post flash videos, you might consider deinterlacing

If anyone is looking for a library of different kinds of video clips, mplayer hosts different kinds. You can find samples of virtually all codecs/formats if you dig into the directories deep enough. DV type1, type2 and raw are represented there as well Fulci, but they are not the best quality samples

http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/

aybills posted 2008 Aug 28 11:28

the site re-renders the video for viewing, but the full resolution original file is available for download as well via one of the links on the right.

i also enabled DV on ffdshow, and confirmed that the new settings were applied, but i still get the same "couldn't locate a decompressor" error.

poisondeathray posted 2008 Aug 28 11:51

Did you press apply? and "ok"? and exit the config

I can't seem to download your raw clip, the "download video" option gives me a DivX file

aybills posted 2008 Aug 28 13:04

Yes. I even closed down both apps, and relaunched them and confirmed the settings had been applied.

I also confirmed that the original video isn't available for download. Unfortunately the site seems to host only the re-rendered video.

I'll look around for more file sharing alternatives. Unfortunately, even the 5 second clip is nearly 25MB, which exceeds the limit on the free file hosting sites which I have tried.

On a side note, I don't think there's anything which is unique to my DV-AVI. I am using a mainstream Panasonic PV-GS250. Windows Movie Maker and my Mac's iMovie seem to handle the video just fine.

poisondeathray posted 2008 Aug 28 13:12

mediafire, megaupload, rapidshare, sendspace all have >=100MB free hosting

Please post your .avs script, perhaps there is an error there?

EDIT: I looked at your error message again: since you are using AVISource(), you need to enable DV in the ffdshow vfw configuration (the brown colored icon, not red). AVISource() relies on VFW (video for windows)

If you were using DirectShowSource(), you need to enable DV in the regular ffdshow configuration (as you have done above in the screenshot)

Cheers

FulciLives posted 2008 Aug 29 00:06

I need a decent NTSC DV AVI sample.

I downloaded one from the mplayer site as posted by poisondeathray but the quality was so horrible that it is hard to see what is going on.

I did convert to MP4 using x.264 and 256kbps AAC-LC audio. I then converted back to DV AVI and the whole time I kept it interlaced. It seemed to work but damn the sample I had was horrible in quality.

I need a better quality source.

By the way ... the MP4 was only roughly half the size of the DV AVI file. I would have expected a smaller size but then again the clip was from a VHS cartoon with a lot of video noise and black wavy side bars and VHS switching noise on the bottom and a rainbow top. Not very compressible I guess LOL

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
As I said before you can host the file at rapidshare.com as they have a 200MB limit per file and you don't even need to join to use the service.

rumplestiltskin posted 2008 Aug 29 00:11

You also might try MPEG Streamclip which does H264 quite nicely with lots of tweaking capabilities.

mpack posted 2008 Aug 29 04:16

aybills :

I do recognize that WMV is nearly ubiquitous today; but I am somewhat reluctant to use a proprietary format since a few decades is an eternity in terms of PC evolution.

Good point, especially when it's a Microsoft proprietary format: MS have a nasty habit of promoting a "standard" and then junking it in favor of some new fashion after a relatively short time. If the wider community settles on it as a standard (eg. like AVI) then it's safe, otherwise I would agree with your caution.

aybills posted 2008 Aug 29 13:44

Thanks for the filesharing recommendations! Here's the link to a 5 second DV-AVI clip.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=G2CDGIXU

FYI, I'll be gone for the labor day weekend, so please pardon any delays in my follow up. Thanks again for all of your assistance! Have a great weekend!

poisondeathray posted 2008 Aug 29 16:44

Your DV-AVI is fine, it is Type-1. Most programs do not like Type-1, there are free converters (http://www.ulead.com/download/dvconverter/download.htm) , but this is not necessary if you are frameserving using directshow. Type-1 DV files are not compatible with VFW, so that is why your previous script using Avisource() didn't work - it uses VFW. DirectShowSource() works for both types, since it uses direct show. If you must use AviSource() for some reason, then you must convert to Type-2 (and enable "DV" in the ffdshow VFW settings, not the regular non-vfw ffdshow configuration)

I just used some quick default settings with crf20 (constant quality mode) using x264, deinterlaced, IVTC'd. You could tweak settings to your liking, better or worse quality, leave it interlaced etc... It just happened to be about ~1/6 original size with this encode. If you wanted an exact filesize, for example, exactly fit a DVD, you would have to use a 2pass encode

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=VFAHRHVT

Cheers

Coma posted 2008 Aug 30 00:51

I was able to get the DV on megaupload to decode using AVISource() by going to the ffdshow VFW Codec configuration (should be right below the video decoder configuration in the Start menu) and turning on DV decoding.

What you turned on was the DirectShow decoding, so...

And poisondeathray: IVTC'd? But this is pure interlaced. If you turn off your field matcher's PP then you'll see it doesn't do anything.
And what's worse, it seems you decimated it to 23.976 fps. That DV is native 59.94 field per sec, so at worst you should decimate to 29.97 fps, and optimally you should bob it to 59.94 fps and keep it there.

Watch the DV side by side with your mp4 and you'll see it's much smoother.
In the future it's probably better to use MVTools or even convertfps to "add motion blur" to attempt to reduce the choppyness introduced by the lower FPS.

And OP: if this is just for archival, then ideally you would leave something like this interlaced and encode it interlaced so that later you can put it, interlaced, on a DVD and preserve the smooth motion.

aybills posted 2008 Aug 30 19:48

Thanks! I have finally been able to *successfully* convert to DV using MeGUI + AVISynth (enabling DV in the VFW config), though I haven't been able to figure out how to activate the deinterlacer. I've been using all the default settings within MeGUI and have only been specifying the target bitrate.

I uploaded a sample video which was encoded at 2mbps, or you can compare the differences between my video and poisondeathray's below.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=BWDS2UVH

Or just note the screenshot below which shows the interlacing problem.

aybills posted 2008 Aug 30 19:49

Correction: My video tkd4096 was encoded at 4mbps rather than my previously stated 2mbps.

poisondeathray posted 2008 Aug 30 21:06

Thanks for the tips, Coma. As you can probably tell, I rarely deal with DV these days, but I love to learn

The sample given was 29.97 true interlaced, how would you encode at 59.94? Do you just double up the frames?

I didn't notice much difference in "choppiness" between 29.97 and 23.976. Perhaps you cannot decode h264 or AAC properly on your system? The other possibility is that you used Quicktime or some other poor player to play it back, which does not support the higher quality features of h264. For example, more than 2 b-frames will cause studdering. If you played it back in a decent media player like VLC, Mplayer, or MPC it will play fine assuming you have a capable system.

My impression was that size reduction was most important, and this is what I would do for the 20% reduction, of course aybills has to make that decision himself. I suggest you do a few tests to figure out what settings work best for your needs

If quality was more important, of course I would just leave the original.

@aybills, your encode had 1:1 pixels, so the display aspect ratio was 1.5 on a 720x480 frame. Normal DV has 4/3 aspect ratio. If you wanted to preserve this aspect ratio you need to include these lines in your .avs script

global MeGUI_darx = 4
global MeGUI_dary = 3

Note not media players will respect the aspect ratio flag. If you play it in MPC or Mplayer, you will notice the difference.

Also you are using "lower" quality settings (which might be compatible with Quicktime), but are not as high in quality. (Maybe this was on purpose?) Try updating your MeGUI using the development servers in the configuration, and download new profiles

If you are happy with the way things are, just leave it. If you wanted more instruction on deinterlacing or decimating, let me know.

Cheers

aybills posted 2008 Aug 30 23:07

Thanks for the tip regarding aspect ratio. I assumed that the aspect ratio would be preserved based on the original, but apparently not. I'll modify the .avs script as you suggested.

Regarding the quality settings, I tried a several different encoder settings such as x264: *scratchpad*; Unrestricted 1 Pass Const. Quality HQ; and Unrestricted 2 Pass HQ and at different bitrates.

I am almost satisfied with my video conversion if not for the obviously visible interlacing. If you could advise how I can deinterlace the video, I think I'll be good to go. Basically, I would be quite happy to have my conversion settings exactly as you had set for the sample which you converted.

Thanks again!

poisondeathray posted 2008 Aug 31 00:04

I just used Yadif, which is a smart deinterlacer. (bottom field first usually for DV)
You can add these to your script (adjust the path if you put it in a different directory)

Load_Stdcall_Plugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\yadif.dll")
Yadif(order=0)

When you make adjustments to the profiles, but don't save them, they become the scratchpad (so you leave the profile intact). The scratchpad is just a "temporary profile"

Note that the default profiles are (-1,-1) for deblocking, I suggest you change it back to (0,0) for most encodes. It's just that the author, Sharktooth, prefers sharper encodes, but I think it causes artifacting on occasion.

There's many tweaks that you can do, but if you use that default "unrestricted 1 pass HQ" it's a pretty good balance between encoding speed and quality. In your screenshot, crf18 is selected by default. Lower quantizers will give you higher quality (and bigger filesize/bitrate). Most people use between 18-22. If you need a specific size (e.g. you might want to fit exactly on 1 dvd size), use 2pass mode instead with a bitrate calculator.

Cheers

FulciLives posted 2008 Aug 31 00:49

I downloaded the original sample DV AVI file once you finally got it posted proper but haven't had much of a chance to play with it.

However all this talk of deinterlacing is hurting my head. If you intend this MP4 to be an "archive" then you DO NOT want to deinterlace. Period. No questioning it.

The real question is this: Can you do this with H.264 and the MP4 container and can it then be successfully re-encoded at some point to a different interlaced format? I think the answer is YES based on the bad quality sample I played with earlier. However I still need to test this and also there is a question of what it will look like when playing it back (since you don't want interlacing to be seen on a progressive display).

I have to play with this further though and I hope to do that before the (extra long) weekend is over. I work for a bank so no work for me on Monday and I get paid :)

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

Coma posted 2008 Aug 31 01:54

poisondeathray :

As you probably know, 29.97 true interlaced means two distinct half frames (that is, they are shot at a different time), so keeping the video at 59.94 fps thus has more motion.

To do 59.94 fps, all you need to do is change Yadif's mode so it doesn't do half rate deinterlacing (29.97) but full rate deinterlacing. Halfrate is akin to Bob().SelectEven().

Deinterlacers like MCBob and MVBob do 59.94 at default, and if you want 29.97 fps you need to manually decimate.

FulciLives posted 2008 Aug 31 07:11

Well I got a chance to test some stuff out. Using the DV AVI sample tkd.avi I converted it to MP4 twice. The first conversion I called tkd_30fps.mp4 and it is 29.970fps interlaced and the second conversion I called tkd_60fps.mp4 and it is 59.940fps progressive.

The good news is that the 59.940fps MP4 file plays smooth as butter and looks pretty darn good. I tested it on my computer as well as on my Sony PS3 which is connected to a 51 inch 16x9 WS 1080i HDTV (Hitachi CRT Rear Projection). Looks great.

Only problem is ... I can't figure out how to convert it back to standard 29.970fps interlaced NTSC DV AVI and I'm not even sure if that is possible. I'd like to think that it is but if it is then I have no clue as to how to do it.

Now the 29.970fps MP4 file does show interlaced artifacts when you play it back on the computer and on the Sony PS3 although on the Sony PS3 it (the interlacing) was more "subtle" somehow. However it does convert rather nicely back to standard 29.970fps interlaced NTSC DV AVI and yet the MP4 is approximately 1/4 the size of the original DV AVI file (well it is slightly over 1/4 but not by much). So if you need to archive the DV AVI but save space then this could work.

Below are the file links:

1.) tkd_30fps.mp4 ---> http://www.mediafire.com/file/lrz5t19mqnl/tkd_30fps.mp4
2.) tkd_60fps.mp4 ---> http://www.mediafire.com/file/2wv4kwm2md1/tkd_60fps.mp4
3.) tkd_30fps.avi ---> http://www.mediafire.com/file/95zsmzjtfmn/tkd_30fps.avi

The third file above is the first file converted back to DV AVI and while I do see some ... dare I say minor ... compression artifacts it still looks good. The idea was to see how the end result would look (DV to MP4 then back to DV) for those thinking of this as an "archive" solution (compressed MP4).

I haven't tested this but both MP4 files I created are I believe within the AVCHD spec so you should be able to make an AVCHD DVD-R disc or AVCHD Blu-Ray disc and play it back on any Blu-Ray player that supports AVCHD.

However I did see some interlacing with the 29.970fps MP4 file on my PS3 and I'm not sure why ... it shouldn't be there as per my understanding of how the PS3 works. Maybe I'm wrong and H.264 cannot "properly" handle interlaced video.

Perhaps I'll do a VC-1 test next as that will also play on the PS3 and should support interlaced video ...

As it stands now it seems that for H.264 you need to go progressive 59.940fps for smooth playback but going back to 29.970fps interlaced may not be possible. It looks good as the "end" result but may not be a good idea to use as an "archive" compared to DV AVI. The 29.970fps H.264 converts back to interlaced DV AVI nicely making it a good "archive" but not a good playback "end" result format. Argh !!!

Comments from someone that knows more than me about H.264 please LOL

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

poisondeathray posted 2008 Aug 31 09:37

Fucli, x264 has a provision to "encode interlaced". I don't know what it does, maybe this is one of the times it's used? As a command line you would put "--interlaced". MeGUI has a tickbox to activate it, not sure if XviD4PSP has the option (I gather that's what you used).

FulciLives posted 2008 Aug 31 13:09

poisondeathray :

Yes. I used XVID4PSP to do the encoding.

The 29.970fps interlaced MP4 I created seems "proper" in that when I converted back to interlaced DV AVI it appears to match the original DV AVI

It just didn't look so "hot" on my Sony PS3

BTW I forgot to mention that the MP4 made by the original poster ... the file called tkd4096.mp4 ... did not play at all on the Sony PS3.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

aybills posted 2008 Aug 31 13:22

Fulci - Sorry for misarticulating my original intention. I plan to archive my videos on the original camcorder tape as well as store the full DV-AVI files on an external drive. My desire for conversion was to keep a smaller yet acceptably good quality copy of my videos for convenient playback from my internal harddrive, hence the desire to convert the video from interlaced to progressive.

Your 60fps sample video looked incredible when I was able to run it; however, my PC was not able to maintain playback smoothly (Win XP + dual Pentium 2.8GHz + 2.49GB RAM). I used VLC media player (QT wouldn't work at all).

So I have now been able to successfully convert the video into 4x3 progressive at ~30fps at 4Mbps which is acceptably good quality to me; however, I am still unable to generate an audio stream from the original DV-AVI file(which I understand needs to be later muxed with the video). I followed the MeGui conversion guide linked this site, as well as the wiki help, and tried several different audio encoder settings, but when I begin the queue it always generates an error on the audio file portion.

aybills posted 2008 Aug 31 13:24

Here's the error message after I start the queue

poisondeathray posted 2008 Aug 31 13:35

1) check to make sure your audio program paths are set in MeGUI

2) use an .avs script to encode the audio (although you can for some files, I couldn't do it directly with your sample either)

DirectShowSource("PATH\tkd.avi",video=false)

You could have used the same script for both audio & video too:
DirectShowSource("PATH\tkd.avi",fps=29.97,audio=true)

FulciLives posted 2008 Aug 31 13:57

aybills :

Obviously I didn't understand before but now I do. Converting to progressive 59.940fps should give you the best quality in terms of deinterlacing the file.

aybills :

Your 60fps sample video looked incredible when I was able to run it; however, my PC was not able to maintain playback smoothly (Win XP + dual Pentium 2.8GHz + 2.49GB RAM). I used VLC media player (QT wouldn't work at all).

Well that is problematic especially since the 59.940fps conversion looks so good. I admit though that it also plays choppy on my computer but I'm still using a lowly P4 540 3.2E Ghz Prescott processor that is tech from ... oh about 3 1/2 years ago now LOL

I'm not sure what you mean by "dual Pentium 2.8Ghz" but that should be blazing fast if it is a true dual core or is it one of those Pentium D chips? If so then I could see how it would be too slow as the Pentium D is nearly as old as my processor and I would imagine it would be too slow. However QT sucks and VLC media player is not very "efficient" on a slow computer. You might want to try Media Player Classic instead. It is more "lightweight" and uses less "resources" so you might get better playback using it.

The 59.940fps MP4 file is 100% compatible with the Sony PS3 and should also work on a Microsoft XboX 360 (although I don't have one of those to test and confirm). You can simply burn to a DVD-R or DVD+R as a "data disc" and off you go.

As for the audio ... I had no trouble using XVID4PSP ... it handled the audio rather well (as you can tell from my samples). It was able to decode and encode the audio from the DV AVI without any issues. I used 256kbps CBR AAC-LC audio in both of my MP4 conversions.

One thing I would like to stress here ... you should consider using a PS3 / XboX 360 "profile" when doing the MP4 because 1.) You never know as you may get one of these devices or know someone that has one and wants to watch your MP4 files and 2.) They use a MP4 "standard" that is within computer hardware specs for hardware acceleration so if you have a low powered CPU but a video card that does hardware assisted decoding they will be able to hardware assist playback on such MP4 files whereas other MP4 files created using different "specs" may not be able to take advantage of this video card hardware assisted decoding which means you rely on pure CPU horsepower when playing back the clips. Of course this didn't help your current computer with my PS3 compatible 59.940fps MP4 but I'm guessing your current video card doesn't offer hardware assisted H.264 decoding (or if it does you don't have it set up correctly). I should point out that this usually means using Windows Media Player or Media Player Classic Home Cinema.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

vhelp posted 2008 Aug 31 14:55

Tripod, Tripod, Tripod :)

. . .

Because of your dv source being Type 1, this might help you in your situation. However, I would consider checking your cam to see if you have the audio set to 32000 as default. Some cams do this. If it is, change it to 48000. Otherwise, your dv software (the one you use to transfer over firewire) is set up to 32000. You would have to change it to 48000. But do check the cam first so that you avoid unecessary conversion during the transfer or later steps. I don't know if you realize this. So, I'm pointing it out to now :!:

. . .

If you want to remove the issue you are having with your audio, then you will have to demux your DV type 1 source into its two components: Video and Audio.

Then, you would MUX them back togther but this time into a DV Type 2 format.

Here are two methods for: DV Type 1 -> DV Type 2

DOWNLOAD from one of the sites or google it: "ffmpeg.0.4.9-prel.build.4743"

** http://esby.free.fr/CelticDruid/mirror/ffmpeg/
** http://www.videohelp.com/tools/ffmpeg
** or, search for this archive, as it worked flawless-ly in your tkd.avi test I ran
** using this version --> ffmpeg.0.4.9-prel.build.4743

Then, run the following command from a DOS window:

ffmpeg -i h:\tkd.avi -vcodec dvvideo -ac 2 -ar 48000 -acodec pcm_s16le -y h:\tkd_new.avi

Method 2:

Search for and download: "Virtualdub-mpeg2 1.6.15"

..it can do this. It will open your DV source and from there you can do the following:

A -- open your DV source
B -- Video\direct stream copy\
C -- F7, and save as a *new* avi source

* tdk.avi - in this pic, notice line 1 is only 1 stream. that means its seeing only video
* tdk_new.avi - in the 2nd line, you will see 2, for 2 streams. this means there is video/audio stream

Virtualdub will save to a *new* DV Type 2 format. You don't have to tell it the type, it will know what to do.
Your new dv source will now have two streams, and the rest of your video endeavor should go smoothly from there on. Older versions of virtualdub could not completely open Type 1 files. They would open as video only. But new-er verisons should. You just have to set to "direct stream copy" when you want to resave to a original container. In this case, by coencidense maybe, vdub is default to dv type 2.

Right now, as it stands, your audio is 32000, and when you convert to Type 2, it will be converted to 48000, but this can sometimes cause distortions. So, you might want to check it out. I think that in the ffmpeg above, it is converting 32000 -> 48000.

good luck,

-vhelp 4874

FulciLives posted 2008 Aug 31 15:11

How to do it using XVID4PSP

Load up XVID4PSP

Change the FORMAT option to: MP4 PS3 or XBOX 360

Change the VIDEO ENCODING option to: x264 Q16 Ultra

The screen should look like this:

Now click on OPEN and select the DV AVI file. You will get a screen that pops up that looks like this:

Just click OK and then the video loads and you are back to the main screen (with the first frame of the video now visible as it has been loaded).

Now go ahead and click on VIDEO at the top (where is says File, Video, Audio, Subtitles, etc.) and under VIDEO select the option called INTERLACE/FRAMERATE and you will see the following:

We all know that the Field Order of DV AVI is BFF or Bottom Field First. So change the FIELD ORDER option to BFF instead of the default of UNKNOWN. At this point you are essentially "done" if you want to use the default deinterlacer "TomsMoComp" but there are other options. I don't pretend to know which is the best thing to use here ... well I would use "MCBob" but that sets the output to 59.940fps (which is how I made my 59.940fps progressive file) but we want deinterlaced 29.970fps so you don't want to use "MCBob". I decided to try "Yadif" and this is what my screen looks like:

When done click on OK.

Next up is the audio. The default is a bit low quality if you ask me. On the main screen next to where it says AUDIO ENCODING there is a LETTER "E" icon. Click on that and a window opens up that allows you to adjust the audio. In my example I am doing 256kbps CBR AAC-LC audio:

In the image above I simply changed the ENCODING MODE from ABR to CBR and then I changed the BITRATE from 128 to 256.

After clicking OK on the above I want to make sure that the audio is "proper" as I call it LOL

At the top click on AUDIO and under that select EDITING OPTIONS and you will see this screen pop up:

Change it so that it now looks like this:

Now click on OK.

That is all. You are "done". Well almost. It is now time to click on the ENCODE icon at the top.

OK you are finished ... almost. For some reason I can't figure XVID4PSP doesn't set the aspect ratio correctly. I had the same problem with the two MP4 files I made earlier. My solution? Run it through YAMB to set the aspect ratio. YAMB will then create a new MP4 with the aspect ratio set correctly. Inside YAMB you will select "4:3 NTSC" for the aspect ratio. The new file will now play correctly. Please note that the new file is simply an exact digital copy of the original except the header info is changed and thus the aspect ratio set proper.

There is another option to the aspect ratio "fix". In XVID4PSP there is an option under VIDEO called "Resolution/Aspect ..." and if you go in there you can change the output to 640x480 instead of 720x480. When you go there you will see the following:

See where it says 720 with a little down arrow next to it? Simply change that setting to 640 and click OK and the file will be 640x480 (instead of 720x480) which is a 1:1 pixel resolution. Thus the aspect ratio will be fine once you output from XVID4PSP and there is no need to worry about it.

Here is the AviSynth AVS script created if you do 720x480 resolution:

import("C:\Program Files\Winnydows\XviD4PSP5\dlls\AviSynth\functions\AudioFunctions.avs")
import("C:\Program Files\Winnydows\XviD4PSP5\dlls\AviSynth\functions\VideoFunctions.avs")
loadcplugin("C:\Program Files\Winnydows\XviD4PSP5\dlls\AviSynth\plugins\yadif.dll")

DirectShowSource("C:\Documents and Settings\John Coleman\Desktop\DV2MP4\tkd.avi", fps=29.970, convertfps=true)

SSRC(48000)
AmplifydB(5.242)
AutoYV12()
Yadif(order=0)

Here is the AviSynth AVS script created if you resize to 640x480 resolution:

I went ahead and did it both ways. The results:

720x480 ---> http://www.mediafire.com/file/xejnyiyxzdy/tkd_30fps_720x480_progressive.mp4
640x480 ---> http://www.mediafire.com/file/xnyhwyn7zgd/tkd_30fps_640x480_progressive.mp4

As you can see I called the 720x480 file tkd_30fps_720x480_progressive.mp4 and I called the 640x480 file tkd_30fps_640x480_progressive.mp4 but both are really 29.970fps so don't let my file names confuse you :)

Last but not least ... another "warning" ... "Yadif" may NOT be the best deinterlacer in this case. There are many options. Please explore that ...

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
Note that the 640x480 file is smaller at 3.73MB compared to the 720x480 file which is 4.39MB ... other than the resolution both were encoded with the exact same settings. Personally I would go for the 640x480 method since you don't have to "fix" the aspect ratio afterwards (one less step) and the file size is smaller. The difference in image quality between 720 vs 640 is negligible (at least in my opinion).

*** THERE ARE A TOTAL OF 9 IMAGES IN THIS POST ***

FulciLives posted 2008 Aug 31 15:33

I forgot to mention ... here are the options for deinterlacing that XVID4PSP has built-in

It defaults to "TomsMoComp" but is that best? I sure don't know. In my example above I tried "Yadif" and I'm not sure I am entirely happy with it. I think it can be better.

My hope is that someone can suggest which of these deinterlacing options might be the "best" option.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
There is 1 image in this post.

manono posted 2008 Aug 31 16:58

My hope is that someone can suggest which of these deinterlacing options might be the "best" option.

Depends on how much time you have. The fastest decent ones are, in my opinion, Yadif, TDeint, and LeakKernelBob. Personally, I use Yadif. Here's a deinterlacer comparison jagabo did a while back:

http://forum.videohelp.com/topic354397-30.html#1877202

The better ones available within XviD4PSP (like MCBob and the EDI variations) are pretty slow.

FulciLives posted 2008 Sep 01 01:42

manono :

My hope is that someone can suggest which of these deinterlacing options might be the "best" option.

Well I did use Yadif and I wasn't that impressed but then again I do realize that true interlaced 29.970fps will never look really good when deinterlaced and I've always been "sensitive" to "bad" looking video. In other words if Yadif is considered as good as it gets (more or less) then it probably is fine and acceptable and I'm just being "picky" if you will.

Thanks as always for your input manono :)

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
I still say that MCBob at 59.940fps looked pretty damn impressive but then again it isn't 29.970fps so ... blah

vhelp posted 2008 Sep 01 09:04

@ fulci

I just wanted to make mention that your..

2.) tkd_60fps.mp4 ---> http://www.mediafire.com/file/2wv4kwm2md1/tkd_60fps.mp4

..file is not playing on my win98 pc, nor on my xp home edition computer w/ SP2. Using VLC, the video starts off with 3 to 5 frames and then pauses at the same frame. So, I tried *cheating* by opening it with avisynth's DirectShowSource() function but it just would not open the darn thing.. kept issuing an error. Is there an updated DS for avisynth ?? I can only open much older videos with it. I don't know :x

I just thought I'd mention it because the OP (and other menbers) might-ev ran into the same problem but were too chicken to mention it :)

-vhelp 4878

vhelp posted 2008 Sep 01 09:14

Regarding deinterlacing..

Actually, I think yadif does a better job at the interlace. It does a good "blend" of fields to [s:c2ae5aef87]make[/s:c2ae5aef87] give those fields that progressive look.

I'm picky about deinterlace too, you know. But it takes time to get something decent out of the process. The trick there is to get it to a progressive state and still make it (the player) play it as if interlace, to give it that progressive-interlace or is it, interlace-progressive look :lol: IOW, if you want to retain the fluidness (after the deinterlace application) you have to let in some hint of interlace. I know it sounds crazy, but when I did this in some of my own (experimental) videos, I was quite satisfied -- having the best of both worlds.

To add.. here's where I got the hint about all this .. my wheels are always spinning .. when you look at some of the program contents on cable, i.e., the Nick channel, there are some shows that are interlace, but they are not competely interlaced. They are probably either progressive and (poorly) made to look interlace or they are (by coencidense) badly interlaced, or some other botched job. I don't know. I only know that in some (interlaced) videos I can make them look good, and in some, not. It all depends on those factors I mentioned, and others I haven't.

On the other side of deinterlacing, the condition of the source video is also questionable. If there are problems with the video then this could result in poor results. In the OP's original video, there were too much hand motion that *robbed* yadif (and other deinterlace methods) of their credit. I'm afraid to say it, but when it comes to "home videos" deinterlace tools get the sht end of the stick. Had the video been shot on a tripod these discussions would prob go more positive, I think.

PS: there should really be a separate (respectful) "deinterlace" thread to talk about technique and things, and more.

-vhelp 4879

FulciLives posted 2008 Sep 01 13:31

vhelp :

I'm not sure why you had trouble. It plays back A-OK for me on my computer. I also copied it over to my PS3 and it played fine there on my TV. I then asked someone I know with an XboX 360 to download the file and try it and he did and he said it played back rather nicely.

I suppose it is possible something went wrong when I uploaded it but the person with the XboX 360 did the same download you would have done from the same website. Maybe your download got corrupted somehow?

I'm in Linux right now and I just was able to open the file in Totem Movie Player and with AviDemux. No problems.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
I couldn't get it to work with the Linux version of VLC media player. It just played back with an all black screen.

vhelp posted 2008 Sep 01 14:15

Ok fulci, good news., I'ya, yeah. I got it to work. I had to make a change in VLC and then it played fine. Sorry for causing the worry :x

VLC change:
** Menu: \Settings\Preference\Video\[x] Advanced\[ ] drop late frames

I had to [ ] uncheck drop late frames. That allowed playback to work smoothly. This worked smoothly from start to finish on my XP Home computer, however, on my win98, it would only play in slowmotion. But it worked in both cases :)

In any event, the tkd_60fps.mp4 demo played smoothly, good work.

-vhelp 4880

aybills posted 2008 Sep 01 23:16

As a side comment, thanks again to all for your invaluable assistance. I tried XviD4PSP as per fulci's guidance, and everything came out great (and was much easier than my previous attempts using MeGUI).

Now my only debate is whether or not to encode everything at 59.94fps since my current machine is struggling a bit, but I also don't want to re-encode my home videos in the future either... sigh...

FulciLives posted 2008 Sep 02 00:43

aybills :

I find XVID4PSP to be a hell of a lot easier to use than MeGUI which is why I suggested it and wrote that mini-guide for it. Not that MeGUI is bad but it seems overly difficult with ALL of those damn settings! Even someone of my experience can get confused with all that!

aybills :

Now my only debate is whether or not to encode everything at 59.94fps since my current machine is struggling a bit, but I also don't want to re-encode my home videos in the future either... sigh...

Unfortunately you need a pretty "strong" computer to play back the 59.940fps files. However you know as well as I do that as time goes on computers get faster and faster plus you can build a computer NOW that can handle it without spending an arm and a leg so money aside you don't have to wait for faster stuff to come out. You just need something faster than what you currently have.

However there are a couple of "work arounds".

1.) The 59.940fps MP4 will play back on a PS3 and XboX 360 so if you have one or intend to get one ... well there you go!

2.) You can encode to a M2TS file. This basically would have the exact same video properties but the audio ends up being AC-3 instead of AAC-LC. The file can be played back on a PS3 "as is" but you can also burn it to a regular DVD disc in such a way that it will work on any Blu-Ray player ... as long as that Blu-Ray player supports what is called AVCHD. My understanding is that most (not all) but most do support that.

So you can always get an XboX 360 or PS3 or any Blu-Ray player that supports AVCHD and you can watch the stuff NOW with that hardware and worry about upgrading the computer at some later point in time. Of course you will need an HDTV that supports at least 720p because 480i/480p can't benefit from the 59.940fps and I have no idea what it would look like as it would have to somehow be reduced to 29.970fps in which case no reason going 59.940fps

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

aybills posted 2008 Sep 03 15:50

I was pleasantly surprised that I was able to play your 60fps clip with no hiccups on my laptop (ThinkPad R61i using Intel Core 2 Duo @ 1.5GHz) so I'll set all my conversions for the higher frame rate. It's the difference between "acceptably good" to simply good.

Thanks again!

FulciLives posted 2008 Sep 03 21:25

What a happy ending :)

Good luck with your videos !!!

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

Click here for the original forum topic.